No.29517 [View All]
>2017
>Still using Kemono or Avatar 2.0
____________________________
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No.45916
>>45915
Time and effort in typefucking is mutually exclusive on both sides. If you honestly go on SL and stand around at sex clubs for an endless amount of time you have no one to blame for that except yourself if people actually socialized at places like /d/ im sure attention hungry whores wouldn't be around this often putting a price tag on sentences made into actions. Oh yeah really lowering expectations here.
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No.45917
>>45916
yea, but you can't honestly put /d/ (a private sim) on the same level as futa breeding club
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No.45918
>>45908
>wanting pubbies to openly socialize at sex sims
Anon.. Do you realize how dumb the average pubbie is? It's going to be gesture spams (woowoowoow-w-w-w-woooo), multi line ascii art, "alpha chads" getting into verbal wars for bumping into each other's avatars, people erping which consists of mmm yeah slllluuuuuttttt, some idiot bringing up politics, some attention whore talking about how she just had "literally the worst day in her irl ever," some BR typing stupid shit in broken English, the cliquey basic bitches cool kids making underhanded remarks at everyone thinking they're so much better, fucking ralph tier trolls masking a resurgence because people are talking again so they actually have a reason to troll again. I don't think you want to open up this can of worms, anon.
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No.45920
>>45918
I dont wanna sound like a oldfag by saying this but what you described to me is way better than silent statue fest 2018 ft parasitic gatchas. That's how sl used to be and I met way more long time friends of mine compared to the past 2 years. I guess the cool dudes moved to vrchat.
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No.45924
>>45920
nigga stop playin SL
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No.45962
>>45920
I dunno anon. I mean yeah SL used to be full of conversations. But they were the most shallow, superficial types of conversations anyway. Like how's the weather and/or local sports team type shit. I don't think anything of value was really lost. Most of the actual decent conversations happened in IMs, which more or less is what happens today.
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No.45985
>>45920
Just go to an infohub
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No.45996
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No.46017
>barely any stores that sell state change clothing
>bunch of shitty no mod clothes that won't let you alpha parts
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No.46029
>>32733
Same.
>Usual friends are at another friend's house who I'm not really friends with and barely talk to.
>Everyone knows I'm online and don't send me an IM or anything.
>Start an IM with them and talk about usual stuff.
>Never get a tp and don't want to ask or I sound clingy.
I am actually clingy, no-one has said I am but I know I am and I try to control it, so I end up moping alone in my house.
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No.46059
>>29517
Like there is any alternative, unless you mean the bloated polygon count no mod badly rigged garbage, fuck off with that shit.
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No.46243
>>45728
Jewelry is one of those things where i just buy old cheap full perm stuff from the marketplace. Because usually the people who sell those had the same problem and they just wanted something that looks nice and that doesn't cause massive lag.
I never buy jewelry from stores that are obviously specifically made just to earn money with it.
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No.46295
>>32733
>Want to be sociable but always attract the super clingy
>Just being friendly gets me people who IM me to no end wanting typefucking
>I just want to hang out and watch shit with other people
>Friends that do that are hardly on because they're busy
>Gets depressing sitting at my home so I just decorate the place over and over.
>>43795
>Bodies becoming gacha
What kind of madness is this?
>>43815
I keep asking that myself, it took my friend two years to get an opening for a good American owned Sim to rent on.
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No.46758
Not exactly an SL-specific thing, but.
I want SL to have more texture memory, as well as being far better optimized. The fact that SL can still crash on a 32gb DDR4 from a lack of memory, as well as being able to crash because texture-load with a 1080Ti due to the client itself not being able to handle it. I mean sure, it was good that we finally ended up getting x64, but fuck me man. Do something more with it.
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No.46811
>>46758
most of the people working at LL and developing viewers don't really know what they are doing
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No.46824
>>46811
I know, but doesn't change the fact that I'd prefer if they did. One would think that they would have figured it out by now, after nearly 15 years since third party viewers started showing up.
I feel old now.
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No.46825
>>46758
It's a user based platform and if you did the same shit you did in sl on another engine, the crashes would be worse. Don't stand around the work of shit builders if you can't handle it
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No.46918
>>46758
Even the best Engine can't help you if the creators are shit.
Small comparison:
The character models in current CoD have 12.000 polygons.
The Belleza mesh body in Second Life has a total of 900.000.
This is why in VRChat the numbers of polygons is limited to 21k per avatar.
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No.46919
>>46918
if you honestly believe one mesh body can lag you to high hell you have a shit computer and don't understand how sl's engine runs.
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No.46921
>>46919
T. person-that-doesn't-understand-how-computers-nor-SL's-engine-works
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No.46945
>>46919
The shit that mesh body creators make is 75 times more laggy and complex than the average character in an AAA game, but it looks way worse.
Imagine dropping 150 characters on a map of an average game. How well will this work out?
This is the equivalent of having two Belleza mesh bodies standing in front of you.
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No.46946
>>29517
i hate it how """creators""" give you shit if you want to do something for free or OpenSource.
> see a nice mesh house
> creator is good at modelling, but shit with textures
> ask creator if he would provide AO maps, so that i could improve it and give him the textures for free
> he loses his shit and behaves like i would be the devil who wants to steal his work
and many more stories like that.
If you do something for free in SL or want to collaborate, all the """creators""" who sell copybotted shit or low-quality trash on the marketplace will hate you.
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No.46995
>>46946
This, but regarding Mod perms in general. Every damn creator out there with no mod stuff tries to give some sanctimonious bullshit excuse for why their stuff is no mod, and its ALWAYS transparently bullshit.
Some excuses I've heard:
1. They want to preserve the quality of the product.
1.a They don't want anyone ruining their product and making them look bad.
2. Their textures are good, so you shouldn't need to replace them.
3. They don't want people retexturing their stuff to get more colors.
4. "It stops/makes copybotting harder"
5. Everyone else does it.
6. You don't NEED mod, its rigged!
7. Mod will break it.
8. They don't want to deal with customers havin problems with it.
Literally every excuse under the sun so that they can make it sound like its literally anything but the fact that they wanna make more money by selling individual colors.
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No.46996
>>46946
Use SLcacheviewer, take the textures and do it for yourself.
There's nothing illegal with modification for personal use. Selling or giving out those textures is where a line is crossed, but using something for yourself without intent of profit is totally fine.
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No.47000
>>46996
Thank you, will try SLCacheViewer, until now i was using copybot viewers like pyroKitty.
>Selling or giving out those textures is where a line is crossed, but using something for yourself without intent of profit is totally fine.
Making your own texture for something and giving it to other people should be fine. Copying the already existing texture out of it to use it as a layer for the basic UV map and then creating a texture with it... and giving this to other people... is probably not allowed, if the creator does not want to.
The creator is maybe legally right, but it is still a huge dick move because there is not one single reason why he should care. More available textures give you more customers and more people collaborating give you a better product.
But i guess they sperg out because slightly changing the color of some texture is their way of ripping customers off to buy something multiple times to get it in multiple colors.
The whole SL """creator community""" is toxic to everybody who wants to do something for fun and for free. The only successfull OpenSource project with many people collaborating is OpenCollar. And even they had to go through lots of shit and other """creators""" wanted to shut them down.
I am currently getting used to OpenSim and trying to get everything i need from SL over there. I am pretty busy with rewriting scripts, but it is worth it. SL is for most shops just money grabbing and (no mod) shouldnt even be possible in the first place.
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No.47001
>>46995
7 and especially 8 are legit reasons, especially if you're running your SL store like a turnkey operation, which I imagine most people do.
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No.47002
>>47000
SL in general is a really toxic environment. I've been inside the circles of some pretty prominent creators and let me tell you, they have some serious god complexes. Someone making even the smallest suggestions as to how they can better their craft is seen as personal attacks and people like that are usually shunned.
It's an incredibly deluded group of people thinking that they're amazing for making what amounts to minimum wage for countless hours of work.
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No.47004
>>47000
>he only successfull OpenSource project with many people collaborating is OpenCollar. And even they had to go through lots of shit and other """creators""" wanted to shut them down.
Didn't know about this, care to explain?
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No.47007
>>47004
Before OpenCollar, there were already two other commercial established Collars on the marketplace. Those Collars were incredibly expensive, full of bugs and the developers didn't give a shit about it, because they already made good money with it and once you are already popular, it's close to impossible for others to kick you off the throne. So basically they were behaving like every single popular creator today.
When OpenCollar started and actually was a threat to them, they started to sperg out about how it is evil that someone else is doing it for free and how this is a copyright violation and whatever. And the old OpenCollar team just didn't give a shit and ignored them.
And the best thing about this:
OpenCollar didn't get popular because it is 100 times better, it got popular because jewelry creators (who are also very toxic) could include OpenCollar into their products for free.
In SL, it is impossible to get popular by having the better product, because it is impossible for people to find you and they will always buy the expensive but worse product from the marketplace, that has 100 fake rigged reviews. Popular creators can also just tell Linden Lab to delete a bad review and they will do it.
If you want to go OpenSource, it gets even more toxic, because all established creators will immediately hate you and some will start to just copy your project, change it a tiny little bit, sell it for lots of money, and be successful with it, because they already have a good marketplace position and invest money into rigging it, while you are left on the bottom of the barrel, maintaining a superior product that is barely selling.
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No.47008
>>47001
Just link to the redelivery station in your profile and on the notecard that comes with the product and write a one-liner about how you don't do custom work.
Pro-tip: Make a group for your customers and link to it, so people can ask there and other customers can actually help them.
If someone gives you a bad review because he broke it himself, just click on the report button on the marketplace and a Linden will delete the review.
If you are annoyed by evil customers asking you some trivial questions and if you really don't want to do customer support, going (no modify) is actually a bad idea, because now people who want to make some minor change will message you and ask you if you can press this one button and send them a modified version.
I think that the
>muh, i don't want to talk to customers, fucking customers should just pay and not ask questions
is the worst reason of all bogus reasons why they go (no mod).
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No.47009
>>47008
Good advice. For the record my stuff is modify and usually includes the uv map. What I think is bogus is this mentality that everything has to be modify or you're worse than Hitler. If somebody sells content and it's no-modify, that's their prerogative to do so and if you don't like it then you should be buying from someone else; you know, the whole "vote with your (Linden) dollar" thing.
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No.47011
>>47007
Let's also not forget the more recent drama in which internal devs w/ Open Collar were doing weird shit on the side, resulting in a fork.
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No.47015
>>47009
To me the whole "vote with your wallet" argument just sounds like a cop-out argument for people to excuse themselves of responsibility. The people peddling their no-copy/no-mod products will still make massive bank because the average user doesn't care about object perms or modding at all, there's a reason the gacha market has dominated SL durings its tenure.
Though i do respect a creator's right to sell with whatever perms they want, its clear they have no intention of fostering trust with the people that do care about such things.
It's even worse when stores misrepresent or fail to disclose product permissions and go as far as to ignore multiple avenues of enquiry regarding said product perms.
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No.47016
>>47015
No, the people trying to shirk personal responsibility are the ones making cop-out excuses to justify themselves right before they fire up slcacheviewer or a copybot viewer because those mean ol' content creators didn't make their products full copy/modify/transfer and include a winrar of the dae/obj like I deserve. Besides that, the point of voting with your wallet is literally taking part of the responsibility of the market conditions into your own hands. By buying from content creators that make products that are copy/modify you are encouraging them to make even more copy/modify products and, ideally, strong-arming the people that don't make their products copy/modify into having to switch up to remain competitive. It should also go without saying, but the people selling no copy/modify are always going to exist at varying capacities, but the thing is that doesn't matter when people have other (better) options.
The one thing I agree with you is the stores that misrepresent or don't properly inform what the customer is buying. That is unacceptable behavior. Not wanting to deal with dimwits is one thing, but giving them valid reasons for wanting a refund and ignoring them is another.
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No.47017
>>47009
>>47016
the only arguments for (no modify) you have now are:
>it is the creators right to do so
This is right in SL terms, but in the real world and in pretty much every single PC game, you are allowed to modify the thing you own. And even if you are allowed to do do (no mod) in SL, it is still a dick move, because the only reason why you would want to do that is because you want to sell multiple color versions for the full price and rip off customers.
And we are talking about changing some texture and placing some linked object differently. Providing the .dae is a completely different thing.
>if you don't like it, don't buy it. If everyone would do that, they would be forced to make it modifiable
That's not how the SL marketplace works.
The customer has pretty much nothing to say. Big creators can shut small creators down and they can delete reviews that they don't like and small creators quit because of that. You have to be a huge dick and use mafia-style methods to be successful. Just like people who start OpenSource projects get shut down and just like 100times better products are somewhere hidden deep down on page 100 of the marketplace, while products from big creators that are not even maintained are on the top with just fake 5 stars reviews, you won't be successful with boycotting (no modify) shops. Especially because they can just make a wrong description and claim it to be modifiable, while it is not.
You would have to spend hours to click through all the fake-review (no mod) shit and gachas just to find this one product that is better and cheaper and modifiable on page 43, and then you discover that this small creator already quit because he had no chance.
Voting with your Dollar just works if you are in a equal and fair market where competition is possible.
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No.47018
>>47017
Lets get some example of the most popular product on the whole marketplace with the best reviews from VAW:
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/VAW-Vagina-v28-3D-Pussy/217671
> it claims to be modify, but parts of it are not
> it doesn't fit on the most popular mesh body in whole SL, Maitreya Lara (but the description claims that it does)
> if you want to use it on your mainstream mesh body, you have to hide 90% of it, which reduces it to a simple particle effect while cumming, no optical improvement
> the picture doesn't represent the actual product
> the HUD is buggy, sometimes just doesn't work and looks like shit
> pretty much no updates ever, it isn't maintained anymore
> thanks to it being badly made, it causes a huge complexity increase for this small thing.
Overall it's just a very bad product that someone who just watched a tutorial on how to use Blender and a LSL scripting for dummies HowTo could make better.
But guess what!
> on the inworld shop of VAW, there are always bots standing around, increasing the Relevance of the place in the SL search
> the shop description is full of buzzwords, to get a better rank and match every search and be on top even on searches that are totally unrelated
> bad reviews immediately get deleted. Try giving it a 3 stars or lower review by mentioning that it doesn't fit with the most popular mesh bodies or one of the other 100 legit reasons why it is bad. The review will get deleted within 24h.
> fake 5 stars reviews from avatars that don't even have a profile pic
> paid 5 star reviews - Chance to win a few thousand L$ every week if you review it (at least that's the case on other VAW products, i am not sure here) - but you can see nowhere who won that money and if someone actually got it
> there is always some person standing around in the VAW shop IMing everyone how great those products are - if you get suspicious and ask him, he will claim that he is totally not related to the shop and just a private guy, telling other people his opinion
And of course this is not the only bad product of this shop, lets get the next one:
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/VAW-Predator-HUD-Sex-HUD/217673
> claims to be a "predator sex hud", but doesn't even try to lock the other avatar down, which would be totally possible with llTakeControls (this would brake the "Partner has to click accept only one time and then the permissions stays forever" feature, but hell, at least make it optional! It's 5min of scripting and its worth it) or even better: Use RLV if available, then you can even get the rotation and the hoverheight of the avatars right with @setrot.
> the animations don't have the highest priority, so AOs can and will overrule them
> it doesn't adjust for height differences
> of course not a single one of those inherent problems get mentioned in the description and also not in the reviews (because they get deleted). You don't even see a "move a bit, and it brakes it" comment.
You know the Kiss and Hug Hud thats very popular and on the marketplace for 20L$? This is superior. It also doesn't use RLV if available and doesn't lock the avatar down, but it adjusts for height differences and the animations don't have problems with AOs (most of the time). And you can also put sex animations inside.
Btw. there is a product out there that is using RLV to rotate and change heigth if available and that is locking the partner down and that is adjusting the positions of the Avatars itself.... try to find it on the marketplace.
If you can do some basic scripting yourself, you can immediately spot many flaws in the VAW products and have ideas on how to improve it. And there are actual shops out there who sell the same things as VAW, just better... but they have no chance on the marketplace.
Fuck the SL marketplace. Fuck the SL """creators""". Everything i do will be just for OpenSim now.
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No.47019
>>47011
The drama was about the current most active developer Wendy doing her own commercial branch of OpenCollar.
She started to sell basic plugins and features with her VirtualDisgrace brand, like the Heartcore collar, that is just a very slightly modified OpenCollar (sending the dom a message when the sub logs in with RLV deactivated), and of course profited a lot by selling those on the same place where OpenCollar is supposed to get distributed.
Afaik there were even some weird license changes to make this possible, because some OpenSource licenses like GPLv2 wouldn't allow her to just change a few lines and commercially sell it without making the Source Code available.
Wendys Collar now uses 4 different licenses.
The original founders of OpenCollar didn't like it and then forked.
And of course - it is SL - people who like to suck cock and blogs from other """creators""" pretty much all side with Wendy and don't understand it why the original founders don't really like it when their OpenSource project slowly turns into a marketing project to help a commercial store to sell more stuff and is suddenly in a license hell where every part has a different license.
But yeah, Wendys point is also legit, because she was the main developer for years, maintained the largest project of SL, but didn't profit from it, while other creators can earn money with copies and low-effort changes.
It's frustrating to do something in SL for fun and for free to improve the whole experience for everybody, while other people just shit on their customers and are successful with it.
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No.47020
>>46945
this is a horrible example, and you should rethink your example and argument.
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No.47021
>>47017
I don't know why you bring up the real world or other pc games in your argument when they aren't particularly relevant, especially when there's important differences between a real-world physical good purchase and what boils down to the intellectual property you're paying for in SL vs other games. Governments and law makers have already shown precedence set in the real world don't just overlap into software and virtual spaces 1:1 either. Also I'm not disagreeing with making something no mod being a "dick move" in more than one circumstance, but ultimately the customer's rights shouldn't supersede the rights of content creators, even when there's some real bad eggs taking advantage of the situation.
As for the rest of your post and the follow up post: it sounds to me like you're frustrated and have given up on being an honest person when it comes to SL, and believe me I sympathize. One of the things you have pointed out is all of the dishonest market manipulation and cut-throat tactics of the big sellers. The real world has market regulations and bylaws and this is one of the things that should be applied to SL's market in some form beyond what's being done now, because the current way of doing things isn't working so great. I also wanna point out boycotting isn't the only method of change; there's other tools like word-of-mouth. If you find a store that sells great content that's also copy/modify and the owner isn't a complete turd then tell everyone about it. Well anyway, at the end of the day it's some naughty boys and girls uploading ripped textures so their favorite sweater is blue now, and some dishonest middle age twitter skanks scamming Chad and Stacy out of $5 USD so whatever.
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No.47026
>>47021
>buy software or game XY
>be able to mod it
What is wrong with comparing it to any other other PC game? Yes, SL is different because you just buy a mesh model on the marketplace, while if you buy a game, you get the overall package including thousands of meshes and you can retexture them... you just can't resell them and you can't use them in your own commercial product.
But this doesn't make anything better for SL, the oposite is the case.
Of course it is a dick move, because it requires the creator zero more work while it is limiting the customer a lot.
>the customers right shouldn't supersede the rights of the content creators
It doesn't. It never did. It also doesn't do it for other games where mods are possible. RIght now you get ripped off everywhere on the SL marketplace and as a customer you don't even have the chance to inform other people about it.
>it sounds to me like you're frustrated and have given up on being an honest person
i am frustrated about the current stage of the SL marketplace, but i haven't given up on being a honest person. I decided long time ago that i will never join this group of creators that fuck their customers. The people who see how other creators make money and who then start to use those methodes too, even if they know that they are very shady, are the people who gave up on being honest. And thats one of the biggest problems of SL, because you will always have some creators being shady, but when other creators think that it is ok and they join in (or think that its not ok, but are forced to give up and leave) it really dies.
It seems like you are the one who gave up on being honest and you try to justify the behavior of most creators on the marketplace with non-arguments like "SL is different" (which is btw. contradicting to the "Vote with your Dollar" argument, because it is this """difference""" that makes it impossible).
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No.47027
>>47020
It is legit, because the amount of polygons and the textures are 75 times more complex than on an average model in an AAA game.
Of course there are also other factors, but more polygons and a more complex structures make the physics load also higher.
And: Surprise, a mesh avatar has more than just a body! But we just used the numbers of the body now.
Lets be generous and say that a good engine cuts the factor in half. So having two Belleza bodies standing in front of you will cause the same load as 75 character models in Call Of Duty.
That would still roast your GPU.
Lets be honest here:
Do you really think that nearly a million polygons for a mesh body is ok?
And this while AAA games just use 1% of that amount and look better?
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No.47031
>>47026
That self-righteousness has given you a strange outlook. Just because you don't sign up with the SL marketplace cabal of evildoers that make their minimum wage by ripping off customers doesn't mean everything you do is now honest by comparison or justified. If the normal channels for informing customers is a failure, then use other channels like blogs. And yes, there's going to be bloggers that get paid off or circles that scratch each other's back, but ultimately the customer has to decide for themselves who to trust, so do your best to be trustworthy.
Hey, don't tell me content creators have never had their rights taken the back seat or violated. Having your work stolen with copybot and resold , false DMCAs, etc. these are things that hurt content creators and violate their rights, not customers.
And then there's the people that reverse engineer the content of others, which I personally don't have a problem with if you're making something only for yourself. What I have a problem is when you reverse engineer something and then create something to pass around or worse yet sell to others. Now you're making money off the hard work of somebody else without their permission or knowledge, and it's troubling because those are the same people crying how they have been wronged by the creator or the creator is using shady practices so now they think they're morally in the right to do whatever they want and end up promoting their own brand of shady practices that says it's okay to rip off the people who you don't agree with because of how they run their store instead of making and running their own store and products to the standards and practices they think is honest and just. What you end up with is +1 to the number of people with a shady/dishonest business.
As for that last paragraph, well I'm not the one saying it's impossible to be honest because everyone else is being dishonest. I'm not the one saying your own actions can't have an effect and so that makes it okay to rip off dishonest people adding to the problem. I'm not the one complaining dishonest creators are a bad influence on the new blood but doesn't want to show them a better way. I'm not the one that says it's okay to do whatever you want in SL because nobody cries foul when you mod big boobies into Skyrim.
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No.47033
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No.47037
>>47019
I'm always impressed that Marine Kelly, the gal behind RLV and RR toys, still manages to have fun with the creating despite how much shit she must get from retards.
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No.47060
>>47027
Belleza doesnt use nearly a million, AAA games dont look better for hwat SL is good for (porn)
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No.47072
>>47060
Yiffalicious, that is all
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No.47073
>>47037
I want to meet this Marine Kelly. I think I will find them
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No.47092
>beast forest, or any "beast" sim
>it's all 2007 furry avs
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No.47095
>>47031
>try to use blogs to make other people aware
If that's really the only suggestion left, then this fact itself tells you enough about the current stage of SL creators
>having your work stolen with copybot and resold , false DMCAs, etc. these are things that hurt content creators and violate their rights, not customers.
Yes, the shady content creators make sure to kick out the small creators like that. We talked about that. The most cancerous people who hurt the marketplace and whole SL the most, are those "creators".
And of course the customer is the loser if there is less competition thanks to that.
>What I have a problem is when you reverse engineer something and then create something to pass around or worse yet sell to others
That's exactly what popular creators like VAW do.
>>47033
osgrid, but it's not like that would be important. I am running my own Sim and could change to whatever grid i want.
Getting nice things from SL over there is a never ending task, but it is fun and creating something and sharing it in a big community where all contribute, feels like the time is better spent than by creating something for SL, just to get lots of hate by other "creators".
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No.47342
>>29701
philo sophia is shaped like a potato in places, its a directionless mess when it comes to style and anatomy of body lines, while kemono has nice sleek well defined lines, the rib cake, the hips, belly, collar bones.
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