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File: abbcaa9ddfe8566⋯.jpg (39.61 KB,576x432,4:3,whuh.jpg)

cb5232 No.6135

Hi anons, I have noticed something that most philosophers I know of are not talking about, at least resembling the way I am going to.

This has become increasingly obvious to the point of being quite painful to watch, every time it happens.

First I'm gonna lay out two concepts, and with every word I am using, I am not referring to the academic definition of that word, I'm going with common dictionary definitions.

Now, as I see it, there are two ways or techniques that people have argued a point in the past, and continue, to this day. The problem is that one of these has been used, in recent times, to a point of extreme unbalance.

The first way of arguing, I'll call something like foundationalism, or constructionism.

In this method, a person starts with the most simple, applicable, and prominent aspects of reality. In this method, a person uses truisms, laws of the universe, and very simple and effective reason to make their argument. They start with simple concepts, where there can really be no misinterpretation of meaning, and every concept they introduce is resting of the foundation of principles and laws that are so simple as to be common sense, or unmistakable. Any higher level concepts they introduce, any higher levels of abstraction, must rest firmly on these common sense principles and laws, and be clearly defined by these unmistakable terms.

In this way, the argument is constructed like a pyramid, with every level firmly resting and being supported by every layer below it, and every next higher layer is set upon the existing solid proofed structure, and is placed in a meaningful and supportive way, as an architect would be planning what he can put on the next story up, given what supports and walls and utilities are directly below it. In this way, the method builds layer upon sodlid layer, until eventually reaching the cap stone, the pinnacle of the argument.

The other method is quite easier to explain, because of how loose it is. This method I would call something like unconstructionism, or uber conceptualism.

In this method, which it seems the vast majority of academics use, a person is assumed to know common sense, so the professor introduces a term or concept which is at a very high level of abstraction. The professor then builds downward from that concept, down to the undeniable foundation of natural laws. The capstone of the argument is placed first, and then every layer below it is justified as being there because it is in line with the capstone. This method does not much take into consideration what the topograpy of the actual physical ground is, beneath where they have suspended their capstone. When arguments are made using this method, a person will start out with, say, a 10th level abstraction in their head, and go about trying to prove that seemingly true 10th level abstraction using concepts which are 9th and 8th and 7th level abstractions. This method can be useful sometimes, because when one finds that no matter how the structure beneath the capstone is built, the capstone can not be properly upheld, one will know that the capstone must be moved first.

The obvious problem with the second method is that you are using high level abstractions, abstractions which the definition cannot even be agreed upon, in order to prover even higher level abstractions with even less agreement and perception of what those actually are and mean.

liberaltard, and libertariatards, seem to use method number two all the time, which is why everything that comes out of their mouths makes about as much realistic sense as physiology and physics do in looney toons.

Question:

Do these two concepts actually already have names? Have people talked about his before? Has an academic or intellectual already identified this dichotomy, and described in in far greater detail that I?

____________________________
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cb5232 No.6136

perhaps "substructionism" for method #2

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0435f2 No.6138

File: d238c35ed9ae21c⋯.png (120.61 KB,1548x1468,387:367,d238c35ed9ae21c82c6e918758….png)

Could you try to describe the 2nd method differently? I'm having trouble understanding.

Also I think the first method isn't necessarily a rock solid one. If the capstone proof you build towards is not reasonable than it indicates that the "simple universal truisms" were not universal and that there are exceptions or else you would not have reached a fallacious conclusion. Perhaps its a useful method of poking holes in bedrock assumptions.

There can also be contradictory "simple truisms". For example the lolbergs construct all their views off the foundation that "its always wrong to initiate violence against another person", and this seems like an obvious concept, but this is an enlightenment idea that has no basis in how humans have behaved for the preceding 2 million years of hominid history. The more fundamental truism that runs contradictory to the above truism is that "you must survive, reproduce, and assist your family/tribe in performing those functions". And the set of conclusions you reach from that truism are entirely different than of the first truism.

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3a6e42 No.6166

>>6135

I think that with the second one you described the way i see language teaching in schools these days. You are just assumed to remember every little detail the teacher and books have tried to teach you. They do not care if you miss a step, they just go on without you. Of if you tag along, you end up with no foundation to keep building your language skill on, being stuck in an endless loop of "i know that this grammar rule works like it does because teacher said so, not because i know or understand why". Which is why i'm 21, been learning russian since 12 and can only read it fluently, but not understand jack shit

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188af9 No.6198

For the first part, the reason is largely that you can't prove very much from first principles*, not even mathematically thanks kurt "buzzkill" gödel so trying to be rigorous is super-boring and frustrating when you can just start from your conclusion and hand wave your way through the hazy parts of your reasoning like you seem to be describing in method 2.

*no, shut up renee descartes

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