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File: 1440971949673.jpg (43.89 KB,636x370,318:185,18nf00q5461u1jpg.jpg)

cda8ba No.1979

In short I was wondering if the two could be compatible or at least Christianity could learn from Nietzsche. The only conflict I foresee is master and slave mentality, but Christians should know that God loves them and made them in his image. He wants us to enjoy earth and it's pleasures, with some restraint. When Nietzsche said "God is dead" he wasn't saying that it was a good thing. Rather he was saying it was bad, as science robbed "passionate, Dionysian spirituality that lent life vitality and meaning". Nietzsche also know religion provided a psychological comfort to humans.

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cda8ba No.1981

No, not at all. Nietzsche is antipodal to Christianity, also to any notion of comfort in religion, which is merely the comfort of the weak in satisfying their resentment by postulating eternal damnation to their masters. The death of God, and the denial of ideals, might be a problem if one turns towards nihilism, but it certainly wasn't one in the sense of the death of the Christian God. Read aphorisms 14 and later, from Genealogy of Morals.

>—"They [the Christians] are miserable, no doubt of it, all these mutterers and nook counterfeiters, although they crouch warmly together—but they tell me their misery is a sign of being chosen by God; one beats the dog one likes best; perhaps this misery is also a preparation, a testing, a schooling, perhaps it is even more—something that will one day be made good and recompensed with interest, with huge payments of gold, no! of happiness. This they call 'bliss.'"

http://users.compaqnet.be/cn127103/Nietzsche_on_the_genealogy_of_morals/on_the_genealogy_of_morals.htm

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cda8ba No.2000

I want to get into Nietzsche, and am familiar with summaries of what he wrote, but he wrote a lot, and i don't want to read every single thing he ever wrote for a summary of his views. What is a good entry book, equivalent to Plato's the Republic as a magnum optus?

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cda8ba No.2001

>>2000

The Genealogy of Morals is the easiest to read imo.

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cda8ba No.2066

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>>1979

Nietzsche's biggest gripe with Christianity was it turned the moral paradigm on it's head.

For example; you typically see poor people being more forgiving, kind, non-judgemental, and selfless than the rich. Doesn't sound like it could work out well but it does, why? Religion. Keeps people preoccupied, convinces them to keep doing these good deeds for the betterment of a soul, it really is an opiate of the mass dulling the rage and basic urges inside them.

There was once a time when the royals and magistrates were much more bound to concepts of honor and virtue than peasants. Peasants were street urchins and not expected to have much moral fiber. But as the very concept of capital ownership changed, so did the morals.

"The church is the graveyard of the godman" I like this quote particularly by Nietzsche because it is a surreal way of pointing out the church will convince you never to be as god and that means limitless as far as your morality goes.

What's to stop God from doing good or evil? Nothing. Hence beyond good and evil. God could be justice, God could be corruption, God could be benevolent, God could be a dick. No one tells God what to be or when to be it.

Obviously no man is literally as God in this regard. Physical and societal/emotional limitations will happen on some level. But for the rich this is far less. They do whatever the fuck they want and people just go right along with it. I mean hell, I could come back to moderators that you have this group of people who do noting but commit crimes, sit around in their mom's basements, probably fapping to the child porn they can spot on /hebe/...

But people praise them for abusing some poor sap. "Mods=gods" and other disgusting worship of utter pieces of shit who would ban you and treat you poorly just as easily. They're worthless and despicable, yet people love them. They project their own wishes to be a wreckless sociopath onto these moderators and admire them.

We have the potential to be gods, and yet most men who stop confining themselves to morality choose to be devils.

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cda8ba No.2072

>>1979

God gave us freedom to Choose, thus breaking the 'master and slave' mentality. Religion does institute it, however.

But that is more of a societal issue than dogmatic.

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cda8ba No.2073

>>2072

>God gave us freedom to Choose

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cda8ba No.2074

>>2073

>there can be no giving

>it's slavery!

He designed us so that we could choose, prior to our existence.*

Better?

Besides, with that logic, will to power is extreme slavery anyway...

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cda8ba No.2075

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>>1979

The study of philosophy leads away from religion, my boy.

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cda8ba No.2089

>>1979

It's easy. Overcome man in your christianity instead of being his worst expression. simple as that

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cda8ba No.2121

>>1979

Not at all

'God is dead' refers to god not as a living being, but as a set of moral values

The enlightenment killed god, showing us he doesn't exist. The negative aspects was not simply that god is dead, but that we are "put on the rope between animal and the superman". Nietszche considers christians nothing more than mindless animals, doing things because "god told them to"

The superman, according to nietzsche, is man ascending to the level of god. However, the superman is NOT the dominant enslaver of the weak, this is the worst misinterpretation there is. Only a fool could read "niether master nor slave" and arrive at such a conclusion. The superman isn't the strong mastering the weak, but rather all mankind becoming strong.

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cda8ba No.2173

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cda8ba No.4953

Which book of the Nietzschean school of philosophy attacks Christianity the most.? I want to read his diatribes about how we should stop being Christian and love life, at his best.

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cda8ba No.4954

>>4953

>the most

The Antichrist, but that book is terrible, please avoid it.

The Gay Science and Beyond Good and Evil are probably the best way to go...

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cda8ba No.4956

everything can be combatibile in philosophy. sky is the limit

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cda8ba No.4958

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>>4956

Hello /philosophy/, it seems you have realized the wonder of the singular thing which can be realized through the creative fire.

You probably don't understand anything I just said but it doesn't matter, just keep going.

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cda8ba No.4987

>>1979

>Goethe > Wagner

The antisemitism is sublimated, 'metaphysical' -- where he speaks of 'neurasthenics' and sophistry think Judaism; where he speaks of metaphysics, noumena, profaning the world, think Manicheanism/Gnostic heresies. The Geneaology - and much of his religious writing - is Fedora-tier atheism/anti-religion if read with an ear for what might attenuate the Ape of Zarathustra positions. He's not as exotically esoteric as his reputation makes him, so much as he commands a higher standard hermeneutics from the reader to tease out implications, frequencies, microtones.

That said, when he asks about the "question mark on existence" that is God on the Cross -- there should be no doubt that if one took the Nazarene at his word that the Kingdom of Heaven is within and around one, then it could.

In the de Maistres and Evolas of later reactionary canon might be continuing the moral inversion he decried, yet in a strictly aesthetic "revolt against the modern world" by turning back to religion, there may also be the "if you would lead, one must learn to follow." element at play: The Almighty -- Will To Power (glad tidings), rather than the absolute absolver, "The Redeemer" of the profane (Gnostic, Demiurge's imperfection, Original Sin, Afterlife)

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cda8ba No.4992

Kierkegaard has the Knight of Faith (Ubermensch) and the Knight of Resignation (Untermensch)

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cda8ba No.5054

>>1979

>>4987

>part one

FN's bad conscience toward Wagner (surrogate father; actually blood related going back a few hundred years to a shared ancestor) and failed relationships with Ree and Salome coloured his contrarian position against anti-Semitism of Wagnerites and Treitschke's jingostic Prussian nobles.

FN abhors "the Redeemer." Christ died for the sins of all, but only those that accept the gift receive it. The figure of God On The Cross is an indictment of Man's fallenness -- "Look what I had to do for you to save you from yourselves."

>>2066

>Nietzsche's biggest gripe with Christianity was it turned the moral paradigm on it's head.

Per OP, Christ as the inversion of the Rabbinic tyranny does suggest as much (King Solomon? turning to idolatry, the Babylonian exiles returning with new heresies centering on a mutilated, Anti-Christ oriented rabbinic cult.) There are a number of passages suggesting as much regarding the Jews themselves knowing on some level that they will not be ready for the return of the Messiah before unburdening themselves of the rabbinic yolk.

Increase magnification, and we escape the fedora-athiest Ape of Zarathustra view for a return of the same: The Protestant Reformation, Christ as Luther and the Rabbis as the Synagogue of Satan (err, erhm, ... I mean Apostolic Church :^)

>"The church is the graveyard of the godman"

The cucked version of the gospels preached in most churches is Last Man cola, and by the letter heretical whether you are Catholic, sola scriptura, or a Gnostic/mystic. A muscular Christianity capable of delivering swift judgement (casting money lenders from the temple) is inimical to these types. They operate on a counterfeit of glad tidings; when they forgive, they patronize; when they quote scripture, the Devil's purpose is suited, calumny by stripping from context.

>>2121

>The superman, according to Nietzsche, is man ascending to the level of god. However, the superman is NOT the dominant enslaver of the weak, this is the worst misinterpretation there is. Only a fool could read "niether master nor slave" and arrive at such a conclusion. The superman isn't the strong mastering the weak, but rather all mankind becoming strong.

The importance of circumscribing the horizons of development for man is extremely important here. We can easily go full Ape of Zarathustra, and take the Apollyion/Satanic route with the "and you will become as gods." promise -- which points to John Milton's Devil, ressentiment personified, who would sooner "reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." That ties us to the Good and Evil scale inherited from that which nominally we're attempting to cast off.

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cda8ba No.5055

>>5054

Rather than Satan (Semitic, Manichean, Romantic), Lucifer (PROMETHEUS >>4958

, Hellenic, Zoroastrian, Classical). Recall the importance of self-mastery, and of the Overman that appears as atavistic superior individual quality in history. Rather than being a necessary Hegelian historical function, a metaphysical algorithm for the appearance frequency of Carlyle's 'Great Men', suppose it is epigenetic on a societal level, the Overman merely that 'gene' which responds to conditions of life in order to bring the organism to peak performance/fitness. The indefinite existence of a culture or people, only to live on past glories isn't enough, "All pleasure desires deep, deep eternity." So it may be just as well that the Enlightenment killed Him in the name of 'Truth'.

Perspectivism

In what sense was that undertaken though, killing God? We can't prove a negative. The project was vain. But in the development of the Romantic-Resentful-Modernist, beyond simple geopolitical dominance of Europe is the civil war for the composition of Western value structure(s), which in both senses has brought ourselves - and the world - to crisis. Bolshevism, from the early anarchism and socialism dabbled in by Wagner with Bakunin nearly sealed the fate of the classical, and eternal character of Europe for the Romantic/resentful/godless Universal Slave Morality.

Master Morality and Natural Law

"No Gods, No Masters." -- Nietzsche's consistent disdain, and association of Romantics, Socialism, Anarchism, and Feminism with Slave Morality is less well articulated beyond examples given from antiquity, sporadically supplied . . .

So to end with the beginning, to answer OP's question: Those that are so dearly invested in proving the negative - of God's inexistence - back all these leveling ideologies and trends witnessed over the past century and a half since Nietzsche published Beyond Good and Evil are worth stopping and opposing at any cost. It is pragmatic to advocate for opposing positions to their own

>Rev 2:9: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.”

>Rev 3:9: “Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie–indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.”

Self and World: Mastery

The world denying Christians missed the point of the glad tidings; the Manichean, Gnostic, Semitic heresy of the God created world (for ourselves) as fallen, ruled by a Demiurge is false. Where does that leave us in relation to the teachings of the Son of God, if the world is not merely a vale to be suffered and past through:

>Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

We have an entire system of natural law built through the middle ages, integrated into our legal systems and technology with which the entire earth now runs according to our techno-industrial imperatives. Those now will be subordinated to higher, eternal, eugenic values concomitant with civilization proper, or we - and humanity - will spiral down a road defined by the end goal of Last Man. If we suffer the wicked to rule, God's grace is not ours. If we are called wicked in turn, no further concessions need be made to accommodate the mendacity of Last Men and their slavish resentment. The Devil will quote scripture to suit his purpose, it need not be ours.

>tl;dr Yes, OP; there's a degree of hermeneutics that can justify about any reading, but only by following possibilities to their depths can other things can be ferreted out from the dark; the interesting falsity can be of greater value than the mundane truth for learning; FN requires some echolocation to make the correspondences harmonize (I am no man, I am a depth charge!). Without it, Thus Spoke Zarathustra's connection to AntiChrist can't be parsed.

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cda8ba No.5058

File: e5b816a6a3642d8⋯.jpg (70.28 KB,384x595,384:595,hermes1.jpg)

>>5055

>Lucifer (PROMETHEUS >>4958

Are you upset for some reason?

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d583cf No.5309

Christianity is dead. Quit performing CPR.

It's time to switch metaphors and begin salvage. There's some good wood in between the cancer masses. Get it out so it can be incorporated into Christianity's successor.

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9ee9e3 No.5539

I've pondered this before. Enoch Powell comes to mind.

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9ee9e3 No.5540

>>4992

one of my favorite philosophers

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62e811 No.5545

Look into Soren Kierkigard. He's a Christian Existentialist. That's probably about as close as you'll get afaik

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6cb11c No.5741

>>4992

he was one of the greats predated Nietszche

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