No.20731
I don't know if I'm posting in the right board for this, but is anybody interested in the science behind mecha? I think about mecha and what intricate feats of engineering they must require. How they move, how they are powered, how they would be built….
Media is nice, but I'd like to get into the nuts and bolts of how these things can work.
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No.20732
>>20731
I like to think about it just for the sake of detail.
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No.20734
>>20731
I really like plausible mechs, so go ahead.
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No.20735
>>20731
This is a very interesting topic. Go for it.
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No.20736
OK, here's my first issue: The mecha cockpit.
I think this picture is a fairly accurate representation of the cockpits we've seen throughout mecha media. They always tend to resemble fighter jet cockpits, but how is that even possible? The thruster handles require both arms to use, then you have the joystick thing, which I assume is for orienting the mecha, but this just isn't possible. A plane is so much simpler than a mecha, it can be operated by a human, but think about how much of degree of movement a mecha has. How do you control one arm, one leg, make them work in unison with each other? That just scratches the surface. It makes me think about shows like Big-0 and Evangelion, where the mecha have "personalities". That's the thing, it doesn't seem like a mecha can be wholly human controlled like in Gundam and others. There has to be a high level of automation alongside the pilot for this to work.
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No.20737
>>20736
It's something Pacific Rim did right. Having the pilots actually control the jaegers with their own bodies. A humanoid mech should have humanoid controls. Just little joysticks don't make much sense. Even worse is the ridiculous kinds of controls in Sentai mechs. Though those aren't always strictly within the realms of reality anyway.
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No.20738
>>20736
So something of an mech with both A.I and Human control combination?
I remember Gargantia having something like that.
Though G. Gundam has the whole motion control suit thing going on.
You could also bring up how combine mechs like in Super Sentai and Voltron may have each team member control a part of the robot.
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No.20739
>>20737
>>20738
G. Gundam and Pacific Rim makes sense if the robot doesn't have personality. It always kinda bothered me how a fully humanoid mech can move all its fingers individually on command to grab a giant gun as opposed to just giving it an arm canon.
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No.20740
I just realized that the controls in G Gundam might make more sense than the ones in the rest of the series. That's hilarious.
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No.20741
>>20740
Iron Blooded Orphans introduced a system where the pilot is connected to the mobile suit through a connector attached to the neck along with traditional thruster controls. Allowing the pilot better control. It's even implied Barbatos has a mind of it's own Mikazuki can hear when he's connected.
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No.20742
>>20741
That's actually plausible. The most ridiculous controls are the ones in Darling in the Franxx.
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No.20743
>>20742
BUT DON'T YOU GET IT?! SEX!
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No.20744
OP here, I'm going to copypaste some of my posts from /virtua/ on xchan regarding this issue rather than have to paraphrase more of my posting.
>>20737
Never saw it, do those suits have full movement? They look a bit stiff.
>>20738
From my /virtua/ post:
>I strongly theorize that the apex of mecha-pilot symbiosis would be by the pilot interfacing with the mech AI via cybernetic implant. This would bring the human creativity and autonomy to the fore while letting the AI manage tertiary systems such as power management, counter-ECM/cyber warfare/stealth capabilities, communication, etc. This however is a double edged sword and leaves the operator vulnerable to the same electronic attacks as their mechanical counterpart. This combat efficiency would have to be weighed against the very heavy cost of possible pilot death.
>>20741
That's what I think will grant the highest level of coordination. A human controlling a mecha is literally like 1 brain splitting duty between 2 bodies, it's just not plausible. Deep AI is absolutely necessary to get past "mechs" on to "mecha". Movement is the biggest challenge, right now it's been a minor obsession of mine to figure out how to make this work. I have another theory that uses shared VR experience between the mecha AI and pilot to encourage machine learning and behavioral prediction.
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No.20745
>>20744
If you're talking about Pacific Rim, it depends on the Jaeger. Most of full human range of movements limited only by their pilots.
As for Sentai…. most mechs tend to be bricks with limited arm movement at best.
Realistically mechs would need to have either multiple people working them or like you said a system that works with the human pilot somehow allowing for full range movement despite limited or meticulous controls.
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No.20747
>>20745
Hmm, the full body suit is more feasible, BUT, I can see cost being an issue. Those suits are probably more expensive in materiel and space within the mech. They also increase the complexity of a design, creating more room for error.
Multiple people would never work for 1 mech, that would literally be impossible to coordinate.
Eureka! I think I finally have it! Mecha would be controlled like a videogame character! The human does things like give general direction for movement and at what speed, decides target priority and when to initiate offensive and defensive systems. As these commands are recieved via whatever method of control, the AI interprets and executes them in the most efficient manner. As you guide the mecha to run or fly in a certain direction, the AI controls its body to do it. As you aim, the mecha controls its arms and autotargets. It's so obvious, I can't believe it didn't hit me until now. This actually makes traditional mecha cockpits much more feasible.
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No.20748
>>20747
Well it helps the Jaegers were made by the countries funding these groups with the sudden emergence of kaiju. Cost was probably secondary to need.
But teamwork! Friendship!
That's what I'm thinking too. Similar to a video game character, you control what it does but the model/mech has certain ways it moves & interprets your inputs. It's pretty basic & obvious the more you think about it.
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No.20749
>>20748
>But teamwork! Friendship!
Haha, fuck that. The teamwork and friendship needs to start at the human/mech relationship. My idea is that through machine learning of pilot-mecha exercises simulated in a virtual space, the mecha will adopt the personality, traits and behaviors of the pilot. I think in this system, mecha pilots are very important because they will have to individually "bond" and "imprint" on their mecha. This creates a "friends forever" or "til death do us part" relationship.
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No.20753
>>20749
So what you're saying is we need our mechs to be our wives.
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No.20754
>>20753
Unequivocally, yes. The higher the degree of pilot/mecha cohesion, the higher the level of coordination and combat efficiency. I'm now finding it realistic that pilots will begin their careers in their youth, and will have to spend thousands of hours "bonding" and programming with their suits. This is a marriage, you could say. To advance beyond Battletech type mechs onto Gundam and Evangelion will require AI and pilots to be two pieces of an inseperable whole. It is only through this symbiosis of the human spirit and artificial intelligence that mecha will be a feasible implement of war.
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No.20755
>>20754
>entering a lifelong bonding commitment with your giant wife just to kill enemies of the nation
I'm not sure how to feel about this.
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No.20757
RED TEXT== CHOO CHOO ==RED TEXT
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No.20765
> The science behind mecha
I still don't understand the basic logistical issue of where Ideon got its missile resupplies from.
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No.20766
>>20755
Doesn't matter how you feel, if your enemies do it, the decision is made for you.
>>20765
>Ideon
Never heard of it, you will have to mecha-pill me on this for me to try to give an explanation. If anybody wants any other technical issues to brainstorm over, I can provide a link to my original thread that has more scientific material to chew on and use as inspiration.
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No.20769
>>20765
Most likely some kind of device that can just replicate missiles, or it has just enough missiles stored and you shouldn't really think about it too hard.
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No.20770
>>20766
Our enemies would probably force connections to their mechs. Making their AI subservient slaves.
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No.20774
>>20749
>The teamwork and friendship needs to start at the human/mech relationship.
But anon, we already have those.
>>20765
>Where does Ideon get its missiles
Bullshit space magic.
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No.20778
>>20770
I don't really know who "our enemies" are and why they would be any different from most. What I propose is advanced AI without the emotional component (at first). A mecha with any degree of free will is automatically a very dangerous liability, that being said, the most effective mecha will be the ones with some conciousness, so it's a catch 22. That capability will come later and will have to carefully controlled and managed after years of preparation for it.
>>20774
>But anon, we already have those.
Such as?
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No.20801
>>20778
Naturally our enemies are any who oppose freedom!
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