No.98860
If someone is a psychopath and they believe in stealing, what makes your opinion better than theirs? Inb4 'I'll just shoot them'. No one cares. I want to know the answer to the question above.
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No.98880
my opinion is better because it leads to evolutionary stable strategy
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No.98881
Do they believe that people have a right to steal from them? If not they need a valid reason why they have the right to steal and others don't.
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No.98893
>>98881
This. If they believe in their right to defend themselves from theft, then I also have that right and therefore I'll just shoot them. The logic might be different but it works out the same in the end. If their opinion is to apply different standards to different people, than it inherently can not be "better" than anyone else's opinion because opinions at that point are no longer working with objective principles. At least unless the psychopath has a convincing argument for WHY he's allowed to defend himself but I'm not (in his worldview) in an objective reasoning, in which case he'll have stumped most of philosophy as we know it.
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No.98896
>>98881
Partly this but mostly what
>>98880
said. Stealing is immoral because it's impractical. Thieves don't succeed on average.
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No.98897
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No.98906
>>98860
>If someone is a psychopath and they believe in stealing, what makes your opinion better than theirs?
As >>98893 said, his opinion is inconsistent and relies on special pleading. If it isn't internally consistent, how can there be so much as the pretense that it is consistent with reality?
To some people, that is all the answer they need, or at least 80% of it. Ethical systems that allow theft, murder or rape to happen are internally inconsistent, you cannot conform to them without entering any contradiction. If we accept the premise that every action implies some normative statement, then that means the very act of committing such a crime forces you to contradict yourself. The answer to the psychopath in your example, then, would be "your opinion is contradictory".
While I agree with this, my usual argument is different, although it's long and relies on some premises that are rather controversial, so I frankly don't like laying it out very much. It relies on the metaphysical notion of finality, on human nature being a constant and also having a final causality to it, and on the ideas of privation and fulfillment. The gist of it is that if you, say, steal things habitually, then you are a bad person in the same sense as a car is bad if it doesn't drive. Of course, to this, the psychopath will respond that he doesn't care if he's a bad human, but that is quite silly, because what he's doing is akin to mutilating himself. I believe psychology agrees with me on this. Most serial murderers a pretty miserable people, and even when they are content, it's the contendedness of a mere animal, with a full belly and somewhat regular sex. Of course, according to the hedonists, that is all there is to strive for, but that's because they like to ignore any philosophy not their own. Which incidentally means cutting them off from far more beautiful philosophical systems, like Kantianism, Rothbardianism and Scholasticism, which kinda proves my point, but only kinda.
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No.98959
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No.98971
>>98959
Literally the post above you.
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No.98988
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No.98991
>>98988
theology is not a science friend
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No.98992
>>98906
>Ethical systems that allow theft, murder or rape to happen are internally inconsistent, you cannot conform to them without entering any contradiction
Not necessarily.
>mutilating himself
Changing himself would be more accurate. You may see the change as a negative but it doesn't actually decrease his potency or vitality as a human, it simply brings him away from your ideal spiritual destination.
>Most serial murderers a pretty miserable people
Even if most are, not all are. Myopic hedonism does not inevitably come out of inflicting harm on others.
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No.98996
>>98991
Supremely unenlightened post
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No.99001
>>98860
Regardless of whether you believe in stealing or not, you'll get shot if you try to, and that's all there is. Moralism will always suck off to pragmatic realism.
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No.99002
>>99001
People get away with stealing all the time.
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No.99003
>>98860
Qualify "better" you dumb cunt, otherwise the answer is: Everything I think and do is better than everything you and anyone else thinks and does.
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No.99040
>>99002
Then i encourage you to try, preferably in an armed neighborhood.
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No.99044
>>98992
>Not necessarily.
Then demonstrate how they are internally consistent, perhaps. Proving a universal negative is harder than showing an exception to the rule.
>Changing himself would be more accurate. You may see the change as a negative but it doesn't actually decrease his potency or vitality as a human, it simply brings him away from your ideal spiritual destination.
It seems to me you are not all that familiar with Aristotelian metaphysics. Look, it's clearly a mutilation by Aristotles and St Aquinas' accounts, and that account is what I offered. If it isn't by your account, then that is because yours is different. I wanted to clarify that, because it looks a bit like you are pointing out an inconsistency, when you actually contrast two different moral systems.
Now that that's been said:
>it doesn't actually decrease his potency or vitality as a human
It really does, so far as he is concerned as a human. He may have considerable potency and vitality, but that will be the the potency and vitality possessed by an animal. The psychopath will be cut off from meaningful social interaction, as well as from the use of his practical reason. He may navigate his way in society, but not form any bonds that are meaningful. And while he obviously still has a human intelligence, he does not use it to guide his own conduct rationally, which is what ethics is for. There isn't even a hidden rationality in his actions, like with simpleminded persons who nevertheless act virtuously, but all his actions are irrational. Such a person is, by definition, not a good person.
So your own account, it seems to me, is based on a misunderstanding of human nature, and of its place in ethics.
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No.99049
>>99001
What if you don't believe what you're doing is stealing, and even if you do, you manage to convince most people that it's not stealing? Then you have the state
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No.99077
>>99049
Unfortunately, stealing is such a straightforward process that you cannot effectively disguise it as not stealing, which is why even things like inflation were found out. You have to completely demolish every bit of rationality and consciousness of a human and constantly keep it up while restricting him from seeing any other way of existing and even that it's still faulty and unsustainable, despite there being a whole plethora of ideologies and movements under the name of communism created for this very purpose.
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No.99078
>>99044
>Proving a universal negative is harder than showing an exception to the rule.
That's exactly what it takes, if your claim is how everyone who's not a whiny invasive bitch is inconsistent, a simple example of consistency would be more than enough to refute that claim.
>it's clearly a mutilation by Aristotles and St Aquinas' accounts
>Because X said so
Lol, try harder next time. You've really doubled down on that very christian arrogance and ignorance since your return.
>so far as he is concerned as a human
Reminder that human is an animal and evolved as such and everyone who equates individuals with these biological species is an egalitarian leftist.
>The psychopath will be cut off from meaningful social interaction, as well as from the use of his practical reason
Which is why they are so often successful and good at what they do, duh. All these meaningless progress, skills and wealth. Poor them, little do they know as they have never experienced the true happiness of loving a beautiful underage boy.
>He may navigate his way in society, but not form any bonds that are meaningful.
But the bonds he makes are meaningful. Just like the bonds you have with people you interact with, be it trade, service or cooperation. But they are meaningless to ancom, so who am i to judge, right?:^)
>use it to guide his own conduct rationally, which is what ethics is for
>ethics conducts rationality
Never heard anything dumber. Not even from communist. Morality is the single most irrational thing in existence there is, not only because it stems from emotions but because it tries to comfort them by pretending they are an objective truth and exist outside of that individual's whims and feelings. Funny how the most vigorous critics of determinism are so deterministic when it comes to their butthurt that they don't even think about it coming from within, not outside.
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No.99079
>>99078
>Morality is the single most irrational thing in existence there is
To people like you, I simply say to stay away from me and my kin. If you wish to live like animals, do so away from society or you'll get shot.
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No.99082
>>99078
>That's exactly what it takes, if your claim is how everyone who's not a whiny invasive bitch is inconsistent, a simple example of consistency would be more than enough to refute that claim.
And you cannot give me such an example. In fact, you refuse to give me one. How is that not proof that you, in fact, have no such example?
>Because X said so
That was never my argument. I neatly laid down my premises - finality, human nature, privation and fulfilllment - and you have not addressed them.
>Which is why they are so often successful and good at what they do, duh.
Well, if you think having an expensive car and snorting cocaine is the pinnacle of happiness, then I suppose you are not ripe for philosophy. Pro-tip, if you have all this stuff and still feel the need to engage in a dangerous hobby like "stabbing prostitutes", then you probably are not living a fulfilled existence.
>But the bonds he makes are meaningful.
They aren't. Have you ever looked into this topic? The gig of psychopaths and narcissists is that their relationships are usually opportunistic and shallow.
>Never heard anything dumber. Not even from communist. Morality is the single most irrational thing in existence there is, not only because it stems from emotions but because it tries to comfort them by pretending they are an objective truth and exist outside of that individual's whims and feelings. Funny how the most vigorous critics of determinism are so deterministic when it comes to their butthurt that they don't even think about it coming from within, not outside.
>LOL Aristotle was dumm dumm xDDD
Like, unironically read a book.
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No.99083
>>99079
>To people like you
You're not in position to look down on something, authoritarian filth.
>>99082
>And you cannot give me such an example. In fact, you refuse to give me one.
Not really, this was my first post directed at you. But ok, a person who doesn't play in your moralistic games will always be more logically consistent.
>I neatly laid down my premises
Nah, if anything, you simply mutilated what was already ugly second class scientific fields and turned them into a moral system.
>if you think having an expensive car and snorting cocaine is the pinnacle of happiness
Strawman, though i guess this is indeed better than the happiness of being watched by people with genetic resemblance of yourself when dying.
>They aren't. Have you ever looked into this topic?
They are, have you? Their relationships are meaningful as they lead them to the outcomes they desire. But try to redefine the meaning of meaningfulness once again, commie.
>LOL Aristotle was dumm dumm xDDD
And this comes from someone whose argument wasn't appeal to authority, by his words.
>Like, unironically read a book.
Here >>>/leftypol/ , there's an active club of readers for the likes of you.
You don't even have to go on full retard, I'm not even hating you, we've already had a nice talk a while ago, just lighten up on autism next time you post instead of acting like a rabid protestant anti-evolutionist.
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No.99084
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No.99085
>>99083
I guess i need to clarify. My intention was to poke at you cause since your return you've been acting like a complete leftist retard. I understand that long containment within christian circles does affect one's brain cells in the most harmful ways but that's not a reason to turn every reply into a blatant circlejerk while simultaneously autofellating your own sense of pride, purity, accomplishment and superiority. If you cannot, go back and read your previous posts, the ones before you left and chill the fuck out.
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No.99090
>>99084
This kills the christcuck.
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No.99093
>>99083
>;leftypol
>active club of readers
They never even read what they suggest. For example, in Das Kapital, Marx both supports the Iron Law of Wages in one section and counters it in the next.
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