No.98312 [Last50 Posts]
>Ludwig von Mises was born to Jewish parents in the city of Lemberg, Galicia, Austria-Hungary (Ukrainian : Lviv, now Ukraine).
Should this concern me?
Do I have any guarantee that he was not informed by malicious talmudism, given that he was probably exposed to it? Everything he wrote certainly seems to counter it.
>You're just a /pol/ anti-semite
The NWO is overwhelmingly Jewish. The Frankfurt school is the Genesis of our present statist situation. Obviously you're not a member of the NWO by virtue of being born a heeb
____________________________
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No.98313
>>98312
>Do I have any guarantee that he was not informed by malicious talmudism
How about the fact that:
>Everything he wrote certainly seems to counter it.
75% of Jews are leftist scum, and most of the remainder are neocon scum, but that leaves a handful of exceptions. No one's saying the exceptions are common, but they do exist.
>Obviously you're not a member of the NWO by virtue of being born a heeb
Exactly. There's no newsletter that's mailed to every Jew in the world on the plan to destroy the white race. Momma Goldberg's deli down the street isn't a field office of the Frankfurt school. Jews aren't a hivemind, they might have an high in-group preference but they're still split up into different groups and factions, all pursuing their own separate ends. Here's an article by a Jew (Walter Block) saying how much he hates Jews because most of them are commies: https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/permissible-criticize-jews/
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No.98314
>>98313
Are there any libertarian Jews who were/are subversive?
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No.98316
>>98312
Don't fall for the /pol/ jew meme, Ashkenazim are overrepresented at the top of society and science because they have high IQ's. All the shit about in-group bias or
>malicious talmudism
being the reason for their success is cope, /pol/ believes in science until it hurts their egos.
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No.98318
/pol/ is wrong about everything except the fact that Hitler did nothing wrong (aside from completely mismanaging the war effort).
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No.98319
>>98312
>be kike
>be born into an international mafia
>can use your connections to get into positions of power
>can use the government to create laws that benefit you and hurt gentiles
>can play the holocaust-victim card to receive pity and get away with anything
>can partake in degenerate masonic rituals and live a life of hedonism
>can tax people/receive subsidies and get rich along the way
<reject it all to become an honorary goy instead
Libertarian Jews are race traitors, if anything.
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No.98322
>>98316
I'll take their own words for their intentions over your speculation
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No.98323
>>98316
>Ashkenazim are overrepresented at the top of society and science because they have high IQ's
That's not incorrect, but it does not follow from that that
>All the shit about in-group bias
Is therefore untrue. Jews definitely have more overt in-group preference compared to, say, whites, particularly middle and upper-class whites. Practicing Jews will frequently and openly say that their parents wanted them to marry Jewish girls, for instance–how many whites tell their children they'll be a lot happier if they marry another white person? If someone in the public eye said this, and it became publicly known, what do you think the response would be to it, compared to the indifference seen when Jews say something like this? Alternatively, observe how Jews almost universally send their children to Hebrew school to learn the in-group language and become more aware of the in-group culture. Even other diasporas living in the US or other Western countries don't go to this level.
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No.98327
>>98316
>disbelieving in in-group bias
What a ridiculous person you are. There are smart jews, clever jews, stupid jews, half-nigger jews, strong jews, weak jews, tall jews, short jews - even female jews. Of course at least some of them were good enough to succeed without intervention by an outside force. That doesn't even remotely invalidate the concept of in-group bias. If you'd read their books, heard their speech, studied them for even a small period of time you'd see that they do, in fact, believe in Jewishness, and do - in fact - want to protect it, expand it and incentivize it. Gee, do you think that would maybe sometimes disproportionately promote Jews to positions of wealth and power?
White Men generally don't do it, it's been beaten out of us to the point of generally doing the opposite. All shades of black and browns do it, women do it and Jews do it. It's easy to see, you've just decided to be blind to it. It's part of the reason a lot of people want to push for a more "success-oriented" (ancap) society. Nepotism would be less relevant because failure would be more punishing. "/pol/" takes it the other way, they want an entirely Nepotistic society with their people in power. They're both solutions, ours is just more likely to be successful and conducive to peace and prosperity.
>>98318
"/pol/" might be wrong about most things, but the posters there recognize a lot of things as factually true. Hitler wasn't the Devil, Niggers are dumb and bad for society, Jews are clever and bad for society, racemixing is generally dysgenic and not eugenic, everyone lies about everything, there is a conspiracy to limit and/or destroy the white population in western nations, Israel is a terrorist nation which has successfully committed a plurality of war-worthy acts unscathed, just to name a few.
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No.98328
>>98312
white libertarians are an exception among white people. Jew libertarians are an exception among jews. Black libertarians are an exception mong black people. you get the point.
So, libertarians are already an exception inside all people.
We must recognize that there is an evil force inside jews that is prone to the destruction of the white race and that this force is acting in this day and age. It's in part a consequence of nepotism and in part a deliberate effort. This doesn't mean that all jews work for this force knowingly or unknowingly, and I'm not talking just about libertarians.
I think this thread has been pretty fair to jews up until now. Also if a jew invents something it's not like I'm not gonna use it. Science is science and while economics is not an empirical science, it's still a tool to explain and use it in the world.
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No.98330
>>98328
Libertarianism is only a political force with any weight in white countries, so it's worth investigating if an outspoken enemy to whites has subversive intentions. Any novel system formulated by jews should first be treated with suspicion. The point of the thread is to ask if there was any such subversion involved, but I'm concluding "no".
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No.98331
>>98330
wise position.
But let's not forget Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore are not white and yet they have a free economy compared to almost other countries in this world. So, while libertarian ideology is probably exclusive to white countries, there are non-white countries that are much more free than white countries.
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No.98366
>>98322
This level of cope is just pathetic
You sound exactly like a black with an inferiority complex
>ypipo sed summin rayciss once, dey all be opressin us n shiet
Literally every religion punishes marrying unbelievers.
>>98327
>>disbelieving in in-group bias
>being this wrong this fast
I never said I didn't believe in it.
>>98323
In-group bias hasn't been empirically shown to translate to a competitive advantage for a minority group. Similar attitudes are present in Chinese, Pashtun Muslim and Hindu communities, but the degree of success of these groups is highly correlated with average IQ (and cultural values related to conscientiousness), not in-group bias precisely because they are minorities.
The logic of the argument is flawed in the same ways protectionism is, which isn't to say a sense of community (which is just a nicer way to say in-group bias) isn't important to the long-term health of a population.
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No.98367
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No.98369
>>98366
>In-group bias hasn't been empirically shown to translate to a competitive advantage for a minority group.
That's going to depend on what you mean by "competitive advantage." What's the control group against which advantage is being measured? What metrics are used to determine advantage? That latter one is particularly important since, as you say, there are quite a few non-monetary benefits to an in-group preference, which might not show themselves in a simple salary comparison.
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No.98374
>>98369
>Has not been shown to correlate.
I hate to use this argument (it feels like a cop out), but if someone's making the claim that Jews are successful at the cost of non-jews because they in-group the most, it's their job to prove it. I'm not about to waste my time trying to construct a solid statistical argument to refute every retarded assertion made by /pol/.
What I will do is point counterexamples out: US Blacks in-group more than whites but are less successful. Same with German Turks. Same with English Pakistanis. In the absence of a statistical argument, counter-example is gonna have to be enough.
As for the definition of competitive advantage, that's hard to pin down particularly because it's advantage for Jews to the detriment of non-Jews. In-group is necessary for a healthy social fabric that produces well-adjusted individuals, but the claim here is that when Jews do it, it somehow harms whites in majority-white countries. All in all it's a vague, pathetic excuse for personal failure.
>imbred Pakistani stabs policeman
<muh islamophobic anglos!
>Black gets sent to jail for selling weed
<muh rayciss wypipo!
>Stormfag neet can't get a job
>muh joos!
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No.98375
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No.98381
>>98312
what is malicious talmudism?
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No.98384
>>98381
Malicious is just a descriptor of all talmudism
talmudism is the application of the talmud
The talmud is a Jewish text
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No.98385
>>98374
>but the claim here is that when Jews do it, it somehow harms whites in majority-white countries.
Mayhap that's what /pol/ says, but it's not what I say. Jew in-group preference isn't detrimental to whites (it can't be, the economy isn't a zero-sum game), but whites disadvantage themselves when they fail to adopt similar strategies. Obviously comparing 85-IQ blacks to 100+ IQ whites and jews won't grant you meaningful results. But, if you compare a group of relatively cohesive jews to a similar-IQ group of relatively atomistic whites, I think you'd find that the jews would do better. Not to the detriment of the foreskinned ones, but there is an advantage–greater ability to network, a support network on which to fall back in times of hardship, and so on.
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No.98388
>>98385
In an economy where there is the State that intervenes, of course the jews will do better thanks to in-group preferences.
It's not a random occurence that Google, FB and many other big Silicon Valley companies are made by jews.
They got so many favors from the State and from VC who used State money lended from banks that got the money from the QE of the fed at a privileged rate and wihout having to give any guarantee. Jews helping jews.
If a goy and a jew do the same thing, starting from the same place, the jews will make sure to lend money and give networking opportunity to the jew. Meanwhile the goys, especially white goys, are always impartial and therefore don't even notice this pattern (also noticing would be anti-semitism, so…).
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No.98392
>>98312
Libertarian theorists tend to be autistic and care more about high-minded ideals than in-group preference or practical application of their ideals.
In time, Rothbard started to move from abstract theory to "okay, how do you actually implement this in society". Guess what happened to his political beliefs
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No.98394
>>98392
I want to know more about Rothbard trying to make it happen. I already know about that article "a program for right-wing populism". I need more, if there is more.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/02/murray-n-rothbard/program-right-wing-populism/
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No.98404
>>98385
I agree with everything you said.
The issue is /pol/ wants to blame Jews for white failures, which is a pathological attitude.
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No.98406
>>98392
What happened to his political beliefs?
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No.98410
>>98323
Jews intermarry at 70 percent in America. THis notion about them being ethnocentric is pure fiction, its a stereotype thats it.
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No.98420
I just finished reading A Short History of Man: Progress and Decline by Hoppe. Substitute the word “intellectual” for “jew” and the whole book makes just as much sense, if not more.
Even then, without the state, the jews couldn’t get away with their tricks. The fools who fall for them wouldn’t get bailed out and public schools wouldn’t educate another generation of zogbots.
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No.98423
>>98410
>70 percent
>pure fiction
Are you just avin a giggle at our expense?
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No.98427
>>98384
>Malicious is just a descriptor of all talmudism
explain yourself
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No.98432
>>98427
Malicious means intending harm.
>On the house of the Goy one looks as on the fold of cattle.
<Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII
>When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.
<Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156
>That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the remaining ones are contemptible and hateful.
>That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general.
>A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonoured.
<Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348
>Kill the Goyim by any means possible.
<Choshen Ha'mishpat 425:50
>A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.
<Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17
The talmud is worse than the quran in terms of treatment of the infidel.
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No.98434
>>98432
I'd like to retract these quotes because I can't find them by their references
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No.98435
>>98434
>>98432
they're probably true, but in any case nobody really listens to the Talmud. It's basically thousands of years of rabbinical shitposting. It would be like taking seriously everything you read on the imageboards. There are people who do that, but they're not the most brilliant, aren't they?
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No.98476
>>98312
we can accuse people of every nationality of ingroup favoritism
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No.98492
>>98476
Quite a few Europeans are actively averse to it. And the unique thing about Jews, particularly secular diaspora Jews, is that they practice in-group favoritism while simultaneously telling others that in-group preference is undesirable and should be discouraged.
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No.98522
>>98492
ok show me data proving that jews have higher levels of in-group favoritism than other nations
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No.98529
>>98522
You need to undergo a DNA test before becoming a citizen of Israel, and entry of non-citizens into Israel is highly controlled. Compare this to Western European countries, where non-citizens are imported by the boatload for the express purpose of giving them welfare, and naturalization only requires a few years of residency and a grasp of the language.
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No.98532
I don't really care either way because even though I disagree with Rothbard and Mises ideas I really don't think a good critisism of them is that they were part of a Central European ethnic group some people dont like
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No.98546
1. Against any kind of religion or cultural/group identity, which jews consider threatening because they're a parasitic people and nationalism is a kind of immune response of their host nations.
2. Exclusively global, no nation is allowed to exist or have borders in their version of "libertarianism", so jews can be free to move around and spread.
3. For random degeneracy like fucking kids or injecting weed lmao. Under the assumption that if the host nationality is degenerate and in a state of chaos, it will be easier to exploit them.
It's pretty clear that no Jew has ever argued for strength of the host nation, or the pure kinds of libertarianism that Europeans argue for.
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No.98549
>>98366
<Literally every religion punishes marrying unbelievers.
>whatabouting this hard
No only shitty religions do, and it's not about marriage it's literally about rape. If a kike rapes a woman of another religion, he has to smash her head open with a rock because she tempted him. Faggot kike.
>>98532
>jews
>central european ethnic group
While the talmud was invented a few hundred years after the bible in Central Europe, the jews as a people hail from central asia. They're basically turks.
>some people dont like
Name a people that like the jews. They are disliked everywhere they go, they've been thrown out of literally hundreds of places for being horrifically evil to their hosts. Each time they're welcomed and tolerated, then they do something stupidly evil like killing the greek patriarch and dragging him behind a horse through the town, the jews then get spanked and spend all of history aftward whining about it and using their persecution complex to fuel their insular and tribal behavior.
Like a wise person said: Imagine being so fucking disgusting there have to be laws to prevent people from disliking you.
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No.98560
>>98549
Most Jews I've met are pretty much indistinguishable from your average Central Euro
>Name a group of people that like Jews
Apeshit American Protestant / Reformed / Puritan christcucks?
But anyway I wasn't arguing that Judaism or being some Identatarian Jew is OK or some shit
I'm just stating that someone being from that particular ethnic group isn't some valid criticism of their political thought
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No.98577
>>98529
>You need to undergo a DNA test before becoming a citizen of Israel
But that's just not true. You can naturalize after being a resident for 3 years, which is easy as long as you have a job and house there.
https://www.wikihow.com/Become-an-Israeli-Citizen
I can't tell whether you're being disingenuous or you've actually been successfully propagandized to by /pol/, but these are easily verifiable facts.
>>98546
>Jews generally argue for corrupted forms of libertarianism
Do you have any polling data to support this claim or are you pulling it out your ass?
>>98549
At this point you're claiming that the views of a small minority of orthodox jews are representative of the average jew.
Reform Judaism is the second largest jewish denomination in the world and most orthodox jews are no more extreme in their beliefs than protestants.
You'd have a point if you were talking about muslims, who are by and large much more fanatical. But then again, Pakistanis don't have higher IQs than whites so I guess they don't make you feel insecure.
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No.98582
>>98560
>I'm just stating that someone being from that particular ethnic group isn't some valid criticism of their political thought
Well you can state it but do you mind proving it, or at least explaining why?
>>98577
>israel is a paragon of virtue!
Its a literal fascist nazi country full of low IQ inbred mutants that would starve to death if it didnt get handouts from Christian nations.
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No.98586
>>98529
>You need to undergo a DNA test before becoming a citizen of Israel
[citation needed]
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No.98604
>>98586
This is something that is on the table but has not been voted on yet, because kikes are so inbred and DNA testing is a new science.
https://academic.oup.com/jlb/article/2/2/469/826237
The actual Prime Minister of Israel confirmed it, and it's openly discussed in their government, so please don't pretend like this is something unthinkable to kikes.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/russian-speakers-who-want-to-immigrate-could-need-dna-test/
Kikes actually need DNA testing just to avert genetic collapse due to their inbreeding.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/09/world/la-fg-israel-gene-testing-20121209
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No.99993
>>98312
Not wanting government has nothing to do with Jews, regardless of who coined the term libertarianism. As if everyone was a fan of government before Ludwig.
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No.100022
>>98323
>everyone has in group preference besides euro dudes
if everyone is doing something wrong that doesnt mean we shud do it to.. also asians want to fuck whites and we can ally with them in the race war but actually just anyone whos not a bigoted because we are the higher MORAL IDEAL
the whole point of liberty is that it's NOT EVIL.. racism is evil
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No.100235
>>100022
>we
>(((fellow whites)))
lol gtfo
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No.100239
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No.100264
>>98312
>Do I have any guarantee that he was not informed by malicious talmudism, given that he was probably exposed to it?
You know who was likely exposed to Talmudism? The Nazis. I am 90% sure that they were exposed to ideas from the Talmud, and adopted them, because their idea of racial purity and tribalism sure has nothing to do with either civic nationalism nor the racialism that was popular before them, while it looks an awful lot like the stuff written by certain rabbis, about the Jews being the chosen tribe, with people of the right blood belonging to them and the rest being like cattle. And the whole "Lebensraum" doctrine? It's a different rhetoric than was used for over a thousand years by most empires. It sounds less like something Napoleon, Chinggis Khan, or any random Britbong would talk about, and more like what the Zionists talked about. Incidentally, Political Zionism became a thing shortly before the Lebensraum-doctrine was invented. I also think it is safe to say that Richard Wagner was familiar with the Talmud, and H.S. Chamberlain definitely was. These two largely created the synthesis of scientific racialism and antisemitism that is taken for granted nowadays, but it did not always exist: Gobineaux, practically the inventor of scientific racialism, saw the semites as one of the higher developed races. Likewise, antisemites before Wagner and Chamberlain were usually so for cultural and religious but not for racialist reasons.
My theory is that men like Wagner and Chamberlain introduced ideas from the Talmud to the German political climate. You don't read books from your enemy without learning at least a little. What they learned was the Lebensraum-doctrine, inspired by Political Zionism, and a peculiar brand of racialism inspired by talmudist tribalism and ideas on blood purity.
My point here, meanwhile, is that reality is weird, and that the Nazis were kikes. So don't be afraid of von Mises, he will probably introduce you to fewer Jewish ideas than national socialist literature will. You can certainly sense Jewish influences in von Mises, but they are indirect.
Besides, the influence of Jews in libertarianism is overrated. We have von Mises, Rothbard, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, and that is about it, I think. Walter Block too, if I am not mistaken. We also have an even greater number of thinkers who weren't Jewish, and in fact our most principled progenitors, like Lord Acton, Lysander Spooner and de Tocqueville, had nothing to do with Jews.
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No.100279
The state is the jew enabler. Remove it and you disarm them of their greatest weapon, the rest will literally solve itself.
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No.100303
>>100279
>muh free market magick
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No.100307
>>100303
It's not magic, it's just removing the main reason you can't defend against them.
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No.100412
if jews are so powerful then why are they so well known???
surely the rothschilds are a red herring just like pizzagate.. notice how they tried to pass laws censoring "fake news" immediately after and how it took attention away from the real stuff in the wikileaks
WHO is at the top??? I doubt there is any top top but if you look the saudis have at least as much money as the rothschilds and the next 3 richest families… then there is teh military industiral complex and bankers which are not ALL jews?
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No.100413
>>98381
When the Talmud falls off the shelf onto your foot.
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No.100419
>>98322
The second quote is actually based.
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No.100431
>>98312
>>Ludwig von Mises was born to Jewish parents in the city of Lemberg, Galicia, Austria-Hungary (Ukrainian : Lviv, now Ukraine).
>Should this concern me?
If you are a brainless poltard, yes.
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No.100434
>>100412
I still live in a Kingdom, I always have to laugh when people say Jews run everything. People like Rotschild are just Court Jews (Hofjuden), the elite's bankers. They are being put in front for us to point at. They are not the ones with the bloodlines controlling countries for generation after generation.
The "it's the Jews" crowd can never explain all the layers of power structures and private organizations controlling our lives. Whether it's the UN, the CFR, Freemasons, Jesuits, Royals, the Vatican, all poltards say is "it's the Jews". This is just a cartoon-like oversimplification of all the factors and power players enslaving us, and is mostly just a sign of how fucking retarded these people are.
As long as people have someone to point at, they think they're "woke". It's all so damn cringy.
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No.100438
>>100303
>muh ethnostate magick
I can do it too, see?
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No.100447
>>100264
The Nazis were Roman Catholic, they worked for the Vatican. Plenty of top-Nazis were even Knights of Malta. Mein Kampf was written by a Jesuit priest, the Vatican helped lots of Nazis escape through the Vatican Ratlines, the Vatican was the one who gave the Nazis legitimacy with the Reichskonkordat.
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No.100478
>>100447
>Mein Kampf was written by a Jesuit priest
Nigger… what?! Hitler was not a Catholic priest! And the Nazis literally looted monasteries, and were condemned in the encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge. One of Hitlers chief ideologues, Arthur Rosenberg, condemned the Church as semitic and tried to push a "Positive Christianity" which did away with such beliefs as Jesus, you know, having been raised from the dead. His ideas never gained much traction but he was still heavily subsidized, and every library had his book.
Sure the Nazis had Catholics among them, kinda hard not to when your country has a sizable Catholic population and everyone's supposed to join the Nazi Party. As for the ratlines, the Allies were not all that nice and cozy. There are reports that their interrogators would twist the testicles of Nazis to force them to testify, so can you blame the Church for not giving up all Nazis to them? You don't have to be a revisionist to see how mercy have compelled the ratlines.
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No.100485
>>100478
Mein Kampf wasn't written by Hitler, it was dictated by Hitler. It was written by his buddy Rudolf Hess.
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No.100496
>>98432
>On the house of the Goy one looks as on the fold of cattle.
during shabas to carry things jews need to get rid of fences to create a big private space- they must not carry things in public space so they make private space bigger
and their rebe said that they dont need to get rid of fences of enclosures of cattle and he also said to treat fences of goys like fences of enclosures of cattle
that is it
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No.100515
>>100485
>>100478
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Stempfle
>Sure the Nazis had Catholics among them, kinda hard not to bla bla bla.
Hitler even glorified the Jesuits many times. All these things are not a coïncidence. Hitler was even put in power by a Jesuit Knight of Malta Franz Von Papen
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No.100518
>>100478
>mercy have compelled the ratlines.
that's such a weak excuse lol. They always do everything to "help people". The Vatican, or the UN for example, they just wanna save the world right?
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No.100524
>>100478
> As for the ratlines, the Allies were not all that nice and cozy. There are reports that their interrogators would twist the testicles of Nazis to force them to testify, so can you blame the Church for not giving up all Nazis to them?
Saving psychopaths from psychopaths, right? I truly wonder if you would have had the same rhetoric if they were Jews. The Church, and especially the Vatican ar far from innocent.
I remember the anarchists in Catalunya saying the same about the Church in Spain, that they were in bed with the Nazis. Seems to be a trend. The connections between the Vatican and the Nazis are way too big for me to downplay as a innocent bystander.
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No.100534
It always amazes me what weird narratives people have a stake in. Four more or less angry responses because I said the Nazis weren't Catholics, or Catholic-approved? Come on. What's your stake in it, are you Catholics and don't want to stop sympathizing with the Nazis at the same time, or are you Nazis and don't want to admit your spiritual predecessors weren't nice to the Church, or are you against the Church, and against the Nazis, and therefore wish to align them both? Or are you just really invested in what you have learned in school, or during college, or university? I am honestly asking, it would be easier to discuss this if you came out clean. It wouldn't discredit you either to tell me why you are so interested in this question, I try to be upfront about all my potential biases.
>>100485
I don't see how that is relevant, Hitler presented himself as the author of the text, and was widely acknowledged as such. As far as I am aware, besides, Hitler was the intellectual author of the work, he had the thoughts that went into them, Hess took a secondary role in compiling it, if anything.
>>100515
>Hitler even glorified the Jesuits many times. All these things are not a coïncidence.
No, they are not. Germany, and Austrian even more so, have a strong Catholic tradition, so of course some Nazis will be influenced by it. Not all of them will be ashamed of their Catholic heritage, either. There's a reason why, despite Arthur Rosenbergs agitation, and Gottfried Webers backhands aganst Catholicism, there was no open attack on the Church. There is also a reason why the most ballsy opposition against the Nazis came from Catholic quarters, from von Galen to Operation Valkyre.
People attribute too much of a homogenous agenda to the Nazis, in general. You had some old conservatives among them, militarists, socialists, yet also a few liberals like Hjalmar Schacht, neopagans, yet also Catholics, and so on. It is possible to paint the Nazis as almost anything. That does not mean it will be plausible if you consider all the evidence, however. You can call the Nazis capitalists because they privatized a lot of businesses and had Hjalmar Schacht, but if you consider the mefo-bills, the works of Gottfried Feder and the Strasserists, the genealogy of the Nazis (you can trace them back to the Second International), the widespread and well documented intervention in business operations (The Vampire Economy is chock full of examples), and the fact that this paper on the privatizations itself acknowledges that most privatizations were nominal only, the case breaks down. It is the same with their supposed loyalty to the Church. Yes, you had high-ranking Nazis that were Catholics, you had some nice speeches in support of Catholicism by Nazis, you had priests collaborating with them… you also had all the things I mentioned, and more. You had the Pope himself berating the Nazis, and having his encyclical banned in Germany, you had the Nazis loot monasteries, you have several clear examples of the Nazis openly breaking with Church doctrine - euthanasia being a famous examples -, and you have as good as no example of them being radicalized in their Nazism by Catholic doctrine.
Of course, sociologically, Catholicism did radicalize them. Only Germany, with its mixed protestant and Catholic heritage, could produce the Nazis in the form they had. The Anglosphere had even better Nazis on paper, but no wide and lively Catholic heritage to produce Nazis that would actually do something. America did everything the Nazis did, but it only ever went half the way. What you cannot do is establish that the Catholic beliefs themselves went into the doctrines of the Nazis. Nothing to link Lebensraum, "lebensunwertes Leben", racialist antisemitism and so on to traditional Catholic doctrine.
>Hitler was even put in power by a Jesuit Knight of Malta Franz Von Papen
Yes, and Franz von Papen was widely acknowledged to be an absolute tool. Not just by revisionists, either. His contemporaries widely thought him to be a complete and utter idiot. Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn called him the stupidest person in the history of German politics, and he also shared a quote in which his parents called him idiot, which I cannot find nor remember very well now. But you should be able to find ample evidence that von Papen was an idiot if you look for it, and just the fun of it should be reason enough to do so, even disregarding this discussion.
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No.100535
>>100515
Also, notably, Stempfle was murdered by the Nazis, and if you look at his contributions, none of them are puristic from a national socialist perspective. It sounds to me like he was a conservative who latched onto the Nazi-party, as it opposed some of the progressive forces of Germany. Now, I did acknowledge that old conservatives sometimes supported the Nazis, there is nothing surprising about this. You also had genuine conservatives supporting Trump, but that didn't mean Trump himself is all that conservative. The man visited the Wall of Mourning in Jerusalem, he supported Israel many times, but you still had antisemites voting for him because they rightly believed he'd keep them safer from Jewish progressives than Hillary would.
>>100518
That is not even an argument. I did not even give it as an excuse, but as a rationale. Imagine if people who share your religion or political ideology were hunted down ruthlessly, to be tortured or executed, by, say, ISIS. Would you not protect them, even if you thought they might be guilty? You look at this from the perspective of someone over half a century later, when it is long established (wrongly so) that the Allies were the good guys, and the Nazis were the baddies. That is not the perspective the Church had back then. What it knew was that the Americans, the Brits, the Russians and a bunch of others teamed up on Germany, a country with a strong Catholic population. The Church knew that the Russians had been incredibly brutal even in their own country, and perhaps it also knew that there were plans to turn Germany into a Third World Country. Back then, it was not established yet that the Nuremberg Trials were fair in any sense (it still isn't, if you ask me).
That said, denazification also wasn't as nice as it is made out to be. You know who was fucked over by the Allies? John Rabe. The man saved tens of thousands from the Japanese Imperial Army and from Chinese guerillas, but the Allies didn't care, they only cared that he was an "enemy". I don't think they appreciated Oskar Schindler, either.
>>100524
>Saving psychopaths from psychopaths, right? I truly wonder if you would have had the same rhetoric if they were Jews.
You mean, if the Church saved Jews? In fact, it did save a lot of them. There was one Catholic bishop who put an armband with the Star of David on a statue of Mother Mary, with hilarious effects. I don't even like Jews, just as I don't like Nazis. What I like even less is gratitious and self-serving violence. God knows I am not a pacifist, but unless I was absolutely positive someone was a mass murdering psycho (and most Nazis didn't qualify), I wouldn't hand him over to ISIS, or North Korea, or, yes, the Brits. When the Brits have a bad day, they can be incredibly brutal. To put down the Mau Mau Rebellion, they interrogated rebels so brutally that their eyeballs would burst. During WW2, the Brits had one hell of a bad day.
>The Church, and especially the Vatican ar far from innocent.
Well, as far as Nazi Germany goes, they kinda are. Not completely, but it was Catholics who stopped the euthanasia, who saved many Jews and others, and who later tried to stop the war as well as they could. What more do you want of the Pope than to publicly condemn the Nazis? Should he have declared a Crusade against the Nazis? Ride into battle against them?
>I remember the anarchists in Catalunya saying the same about the Church in Spain, that they were in bed with the Nazis.
I absolutely believe you that they did say that, but of course they would. Weren't these the same guys who desecrated the corpses of nuns, and displayed slaughtered people on butcher hooks? They created a prison cell that was designed to drive you mad, too. Wild dogs lashing out, I'm not going to take their word for it if they call everything and everyone a Nazi, they have clearly shown that they had no sense of proportion.
>Seems to be a trend. The connections between the Vatican and the Nazis are way too big for me to downplay as a innocent bystander.
Then why don't you point them out, or disprove anything that I said? You haven't yet. You have given your perspective on the topic, and your evidence, but you have not said anything about my own evidence.
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No.100538
>>100535
>or are you against the Church, and against the Nazis, and therefore wish to align them both?
Yes, I am against them both, but no, I do not wish to allign them to suit a bias, what you seem to suggest. Well, not the Church itself per se, but the Vatican, yes. Looking at Hitler and the Nazis led me into many rabbit holes, so it's not like I was looking to make this specific connection. Whe I saw all the connections with the Vatican it certainly made a lot clear for me.
Quickly reading through it all (and I will read it better when I get back) I see some good points, but a lot of apologetic rhetoric tbh.
And then I noticed this…
>What more do you want of the Pope than to publicly condemn the Nazis?
Have you read "Hitler's Pope"? The things you are pointing out are the exact arguments the critics used against that book. I partially agree, but for me it's very clear that the Vatican played both sides (as usual).
the fact that the Vatican Knighted various Nazis, as well as Italy's own Fascist leader Mussolini, as Knights of Malta, shows they didn't, and still don't, really condemn the Nazi war crimes. They condemn them while helping and honoring them. Some Nazis were even Knighted after WW2, like Von Papen, clearly showing their stance yet again.
Anyway, thank you for you elaborate reply, I will read it - and check it out better when i come back.
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No.100553
>>100538
>Quickly reading through it all (and I will read it better when I get back) I see some good points, but a lot of apologetic rhetoric tbh.
That's good to hear.
I've read the rest of your post, and will leave it at that for now. I do acknowledge the facts you've given.
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No.100594
>>98604
so you dont need to undergo a dna test before becoming a citizen of israel
so you lied
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No.100861
>>98384
>>98435
>>98432
<Malicious is just a descriptor of all talmudism
<talmudism
Kek, hurr derr muh scary Talmud!
Talmud is just interpenetration to the Mishna which it's on turn was the passage of oral Torah laws into writing out of the fear it would be lost during the second exile. It also has stories called Midrashim and Agadot.
<they're probably true
>probably
It's one those made up Talmud quotes by dumb ignorant NEETsocs
>>100496
Finally someone reasonable.
>>98529
>>98577
>>98582
>>98604
>You need to undergo a DNA test before becoming a citizen of Israel
>At this point you're claiming that the views of a small minority of orthodox jews are representative of the average jew.
>Reform Judaism is the second largest jewish denomination in the world and most orthodox jews are no more extreme in their beliefs than protestants.
Fucking Jesus Christ, look at all of you ignorant cunts asspulling info on shit you know nothing about and giving half-truths at best.
First thing, Judaism is a national religion, meaning to be a Jew you either convert to it or born into a Jewish mother.
As far as getting citizenship in Israel, the secular cucks adopted outsider Hitler definition of Judaism as a race, however at they also included conversion as recognized in (Orthodox) Judaism.
>If the mother is not Jewish by Orthodox standards then the child can not be registered as Jewish, nor can the child be married to a Jewish person inside of Israel without first undergoing an Orthodox conversion to Judaism.[19] By the same token, a child born to a mother considered Jewish by Orthodox standards is automatically also registered as Jewish.
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law
As for the reform cucks, they tend to fully assimilate and marry goyim. Orthodox Jews will soon suppress them as they have higher birth rate and their children marry Jews. Same thing start to happen in Israel, only that is against secular Jews as reform cucks are minority here.
>>https://www.timesofisrael.com/russian-speakers-who-want-to-immigrate-could-need-dna-test/
It well known Russian "Jews" have problem to prove their Judaism because they weren't allowed to practice Judaism in USSR so many of them have fully assimilated.
Also
<are so inbred
<Monarchist
Kek, kill yourself you dumb cunt.
>>100594
Of course the retard hypocrite monarchist who thinks passing ruling through hereditary lies about muh so called evil Joo race.
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No.100862
>>100861
Shit meant to quote these as faggot posting
<You need to undergo a DNA test before becoming a citizen of Israel
<At this point you're claiming that the views of a small minority of orthodox jews are representative of the average jew.
<Reform Judaism is the second largest jewish denomination in the world and most orthodox jews are no more extreme in their beliefs than protestants.
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No.100982
>>100594
>>100861
>prove every claim
<so you lied
lol
When you trust a jew, it is like trusting a parasite not to kill you.
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No.100997
>>100982
you did not prove your point
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No.101081
>>98312
Tbh, every idology has it's jews. Commies are already a given, but even NatSocs had their jews Hitler even made some honorary Aryans and made them officers in the Wehrmacht, as well as fascists before Mussolini allied with Hitler, as long as jews were loyal to Italy and Mussolini, they were welcome to be jews.
So jews being prominent in Libertarian ideals shouldn't be a shock to anyone, imo.
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No.101087
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No.101098
>>101081
Neither Mussolini nor Franco ever cared much about Jews, honestly. Even after Hitler urged Mussolini to hand them over, he wouldn't have it. He did not openly resist but he was far from enthusiastic about following the order. Mussolini also laughed his ass off about racialism, and joked about how the "Lappen" ought to be the master race and not the Germans.
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No.101100
>>101098
>tfw Med/Nord shitposting has been going on for nearly a century
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No.101102
>>101098
>hating /fascist/ so much you side with the jews
Reminder ancap = moderate left
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No.101103
>>101102
>kicking niggers out of your covenant community and telling them they get shot if they ever return = moderate left
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No.101104
>>101103
Right wingers would shoot them on sight. Duh!
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No.101107
>>101102
It takes more than racism to be right-wing you commie. Fascists are just confused centrist authoritarians.
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No.101110
>>101107
>i know more about right wing than you
>t. not a right winger
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No.101111
Ancap = cuck too cowardly to admit being a leftist
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No.101113
>>101107
>It takes more than racism to be right-wing you commie.
I would go a step further and say that racialism is left-wing. It's an essential aspect of leftism that it alienates persons from themselves, isolating some fact about them and reducing them to it. Communism reduces persons to their class, feminism to their gender, civic nationalism ultimately to their linguistic group. How, then, is it not leftist to reduce people to their race? Not to mention that it's no doubt leftist when the SJW's do it. No one calls them right-wing just because they care more about race than anyone else, and it's not just because they love and hate the opposite of what white supremacists love and hate, as it's easy enough to envision a black supremacist group that is right-wing in every other regard.
Race realism, meanwhile, is right-wing. If race has a bearing on our person, then as right-wingers, we must acknowledge it, but we mustn't reduce people to their race, which is what the racialists do.
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No.101114
>>101111
wtf I love the state now
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No.101116
>>101113
Fuck off, Johnson. No one gives a fuck about your watered-down egalitarian libertarianism. I discriminate against whiteoids as much as I want.
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No.101132
>>101114
Go back to trannypol, boot licker
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No.101186
>>101132
What an unbelievable moron you are.
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No.105548
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No.105553
>>98316
Ashkenazim are overrepresented at the top of society and science because they have high IQ
imagine unironically believing this
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