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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.98037

____________________________
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 No.98049

The issues of Venezuela are mainly a crisis of capitalism on account of the nations economy being tied to one or two exports (Oil essentially) and when it went essentially so did the country

Venezuela never established a Socialist mode of production and the PSUV never claimed to be Marxist in any sort of way as far as I know

The issues if anything came from the PSUV mainly acting as SocialDemocratic vanguards of capitalism who refused to implement further socialist reform

<TLDR

A capitalist economy had a crisis who would have thought

That's not to say I don't support the Venezuelan goverment against this US regime change bullshit which I obviously do

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 No.98050

File: fec34cc7bcb4062⋯.png (345.4 KB,1000x1000,1:1,fec34cc7bcb4062ada83a27412….png)

>>98049

Did you even watch the video? It specifically states that when oil prices were down, of the top 16 oil-producing nations in the world, of which Venezuela is the 8th most dependent on oil, all of them saw profits EXCEPT Venezuela. Good job regurgitating commie talking points though, faggot.

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 No.98057

File: ef0de7e003bc494⋯.png (588.06 KB,1280x720,16:9,you are fucking retarded.png)

>>98049

>The issues of Venezuela are mainly a crisis of capitalism on account of the nations economy being tied to one or two exports (Oil essentially) and when it went essentially so did the country

Not only is this completely incorrect, but somehow in some perverse way, you're telling me that massive expropriation of everything including even food production (Which is why they're starving to death in a country with an year round growing season, the same type of climate that allowed them to be the worlds #1 exporter of grain before Chavez took over) to farmland itself is a problem of Capitalism?

God damn, you are actually fucking dumb.

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 No.98083

File: 804034f839c750f⋯.png (1.54 MB,2441x2362,2441:2362,1482892909335.png)

>>98049

>repeating your bullshit shill lines despite the videos directly addressing and disproving these excuses

You know what else is funny? How for a while after Venezuela completely collapsed and everyone was pointing at it as simply another example of socialism failing, socialist would always jump in with the "not real gommunism!" excuse, but ever since all these countries backed Guaido, the same socialist are claiming its a CIA coup against socialism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHTe2Pn7ACg

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 No.98095

>>98057

There are shortages in Venezuela for sure but no evidence of "starvation" to a famine like level exists

Most farms and and shopping centres are still run under a capitalist mode of production (Just like 70% of all enterprise in the nation) so I don't see how "expropriation" affected the food situation that much when it didn't occur

>>98083

I wouldn't claim it to be a coup against Socialism as Socialism was never established by the PSUV in Venezuela but yes it is indeed a US sponsored coup

>>98050

>Some Capitalist states saw profit while another didn't because of Market forces

So?

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 No.98104

File: 2c09c8b53b6e058⋯.gif (2 MB,240x180,4:3,you rn.gif)

>>98095

>There are shortages in Venezuela for sure but no evidence of "starvation" to a famine like level exists

> W-well it's not a famine yet guise!

Just as a side note, when you have to rely on black markets to survive, or even better you have to flee the fucking country, that's fairly indicative of how things are going. That's not even mentioning how things like toilet paper have become all but mythical at this point.

>Most farms and and shopping centres are still run under a capitalist mode of production (Just like 70% of all enterprise in the nation) so I don't see how "expropriation" affected the food situation that much when it didn't occur

> muh 70%

I love how genuinely retarded you are. First of all the "70% figure" comes from a report that came out about TEN FUCKING YEARS AGO, and from the Central bank no less (which, just as a caveat to your severe retardation, hasn't updated it's information in years especially in regards to GDP, inflation, etc). Outdated decade year old statistics Ho!

Not even withstanding the 70% thing (which again, is completely retarded), just use your fucking brain, pretty much all countries with at the very least the most rudimentary basics of a market economy are not facing food shortages any time soon, there's hardly anyone really starving in Switzerland, the US, Germany, the UK, Belgium, Canada, Ireland, Chile etc etc. Now what is it that makes Venezuela different? Oh right! It's the massive expropriation of almost everything including agriculture and food! It's the same thing that's caused their oil exports to go to absolute shit (oh and they can't even afford to refine it, let alone ship it anymore at this point). How does a country with a year-round growing season end up with a starving population? Fucking think you idiot.

Empresas Polar, Fertinitro, Agroislena, these are all massive agricultural companies with successful commerce all over the world that had everything expropriated, they get nationalized and fail horribly. But Capitalism is the problem?

Was there massive starvation in Venezuela before socialism hit the scene? Oh wait, no there wasn't. Before Maduro Venezuela was (by most measures, including living standards) one of the richest countries in all of Latin America! How could this have happened?!

Grow up you fucking dolt.

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 No.98105

>>98104

>Before Maduro Venezuela was (by most measures, including living standards) one of the richest countries in all of Latin America! How could this have happened?!

Oh, let me correct myself

>before chavez.

>Forgot flag

wew.

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 No.98110

>>98095

>Some Capitalist states saw profit while another didn't because of Market forces

>Some

That's a funny way of saying "every single one of them except Venezuela" anon.

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 No.98113

>>98104

Migration occurs between states regularly regardless of economic system and the vast majority of the population still does support the goverment

Guatemala for instance has been under a capitalist Junta for decades and we see news of entire caravans of civilians fleeing to the US

Does this mean Guatemala is some sort of Failure of capitalism?

And I will agree just throwing out the 70% thing was reductionist it's more important to point out that unlike some socialist states that hold a market sector (China / Cuba / Vietnam etc) the Market in Venezuela actually see's independenxe from the state

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 No.98125

>>98095

>Socialism was never established by the PSUV in Venezuela

But it was. You've already proven yourself a retard by bringing up memes that the video directly dispells and now you are lying to yourself. You are such a bullshitter that you dont even realize it.

Leftypol posters should really just stick to tranny issues since thats what their whole movement is all about anyway. Whenever you try to discuss foreign policy or economics or history its just embarrassing

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 No.98147

>>98113

>Migration occurs between states regularly regardless of economic system and the vast majority of the population still does support the goverment

Oh yeah man, the Venezuelans who decided to run away just did so naturally for no reason whatsoever, same with the Cubans who attached car engines to their boats just to come here. Dumb fuck.

I sure do wonder why there weren't a lot of West Germans running away to the East and why there was a lot of the opposite… Hmmmm really makes you think.

Here's a lesson from history for you: If there's a massive sudden migration of a mass of people from a certain culture, country, or landmass to another one then there's usually a very specific reason as to why, The Irish didn't just suddenly up and decide to come to the US for no fucking reason, they came because they were starving back home. Same with the Germans who came the US on mass, there was a fucking civil war they were running from.

>Does this mean Guatemala is some sort of Failure of capitalism?

I'm almost convinced that you don't even know what Capitalism is. So massive tax increases, inflation, a government that taxes massively but does nothing to protect property or even tackle crimes are also problems of Capitalism now? Do you not even have a rudimentary understanding of what the fuck you're talking about?

>And I will agree just throwing out the 70% thing was reductionist

No, it's not reductionist. It's blatantly false and retarded, what part of that did you not understand you fucking moron? Spreading outdated statistics from ten years ago is not "reductionist", it's just being wrong.

>it's more important to point out that unlike some socialist states that hold a market sector (China / Cuba / Vietnam etc) the Market in Venezuela actually see's independenxe from the state

Yeah, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Venezuela, the economy that's seen massive expropriations of virtually everything from food to oil and even landmass sees independence from the state but China, which has actually made SOME tangible (albeit questionable) progress since the 1980s towards a more market oriented economy sees no independence from the state?

You're fucking delusional, either that or you really are fucking retarded.

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 No.98153

>>98147

Cuban migration to the US has pretty much stopped since Cuba's standard of living met a parity with the US some years ago

Some Cuban-Born US citizens in Florida now travel to Cuba for medical care etc

And yes obviously because of Venezuelas issues people will migrate abroad but this is not different then any other third world state

>Guatemala

>High taxes aren't capitalist

>Hyper-inflation can't occur under capitalism

>High crime rates can't occur under capitalism

It maintains a capitalist economy and has been under a right-wing capitalist goverment for decades at the behest of the US

So yes it is capitalist

<"Not real capitalism!"

Lmao

>Yeah, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Venezuela, the economy that's seen massive expropriations of virtually everything from food to oil and even landmass sees independence from the state

>but China, which has actually made SOME tangible (albeit questionable) progress since the 1980s towards a more market oriented economy sees no independence from the state?

The Chinese communist party has always ensured that capitalist class existing within china is firmly under the boot of the dictatorship of the Proletariate unlike Venezuela which still allows its capitalist class to act independently (Thus why we see them being so uncooperatice with the Venezuelan goverment)

Also do you have any evidence for your claim that "All food oil and Land" is being expropriated by the state?

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 No.98154

He's a 100+kg military dictator in a country where the average weight is 71kg.

Venezuela is Korea tier, which is what every communist/socialist/communalist society turns into.

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 No.98162

File: cad338b2c3b340c⋯.jpg (48.88 KB,720x709,720:709,Commies and economics.jpg)

>>98153

>Cuban migration to the US has pretty much stopped since Cuba's standard of living met a parity with the US some years ago

Things that never happened for 500$ Alex! Seriously, what fucking fantasy are you living in, you delusional retard? There's nothing that supports that notion, nothing even close. And even where they supposedly do have something comparable (ie: it was a meme for a while that they had really good healthcare) one look under the hood proves otherwise.

>And yes obviously because of Venezuelas issues people will migrate abroad but this is not different then any other third world state

Amazing! It's almost like Socialism and government interference turned one of the richest Latin American countries into one of the poorest in the fucking world! I wonder if it's the same with most of these third world countries… What do you know! it is.

> High taxes aren't capitalist

They're not, you fucking idiot. High taxes (let alone any taxes at all) are an interference with the market and guess what that means? It's a problem of interference with capitalism by the state, not a problem OF capitalism. Wow! it's almost like (as per everything else you say) you don't actually have a fucking clue about what you're talking about! Gee golly whiz! Kill yourself. Better yet, go ahead and tell me next about how expropriation is also a problem of capitalism. Dumb fuck.

>Hyper-inflation can't occur under capitalistm

Gee, if there was a market for money, it's almost like people could opt to choose another currency, oh wait there isn't one in Guatemala. Damn, t's almost like they have a central bank… What a shame.

>It maintains a capitalist economy and has been under a right-wing capitalist goverment for decades at the behest of the US

> governments, an institution that operate on principal as a violation of the market can be capitalist

> not only that but coups funded through taxation are capitalist now

This has been another episode in how to spot a retard 101. Thank you for tuning in Ladies and Gentlemen! Once again, you have proven without the shadow of a doubt, that not only do you not have the most simple understanding in regards to what you're talking about, but that you're so incredibly inept that you're willing to mouth off and display it. Bravo, you fucking retard. Kiss the barrel end of a mossberg and never reproduce.

>The Chinese communist party has always ensured that capitalist class existing within china is firmly under the boot of the dictatorship of the Proletariate unlike Venezuela which still allows its capitalist class to act independently (Thus why we see them being so uncooperatice with the Venezuelan goverment)

First of all, learn to fucking spell you absolute moron. It's bad enough having to read your autistic justifications as it is. Secondly, what in the fuck are you talking about? These businesses get expropriated, nationalized and become dysfunctional, this isn't firmly under the boot of a dictatorship? At least with the Chinese, it's just more or less facing the problems of an incompetent and invasive government alongside Keynesian economic traps (not that you'd even understand that, you're so fucking stupid).

>also do you have any evidence for your claim that "All food oil and Land" is being expropriated by the state?

I love how you attempt to quote me and it's not even a real quote but I'll go with it. Yeah, and even the most brief searches can get you the results that you're looking for. I've even already talked a little about how Venezuela's major agricultural companies have been screwed right into the dirt by nationalization. What do you want to talk about now? How landmass has essentially been used as a political weapon? How the assets of oil companies from both foreign and homemade companies has been expropriated by the state?

Again, grow the fuck up. The sooner you get out of your fantasy, the sooner you'll see what's unfolding right in font of you.

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 No.101703

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 No.101721

>>98154

fug i need to settle there to lose weight

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