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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: 9b5bb8da77333e7⋯.jpg (125.09 KB,1133x624,1133:624,this is what Cockbutt actu….jpg)

File: 1405f5fe26062c4⋯.jpg (157.73 KB,1220x668,305:167,Cockbutt-2.jpg)

File: f968fbb055142af⋯.png (46.29 KB,864x501,288:167,China-State-Employment.png)

File: 0e73298289047d1⋯.png (64.62 KB,622x1339,622:1339,Cockbutt Theory vs Reality.png)

File: 6b1d9627ed1a982⋯.jpg (22.87 KB,403x403,1:1,le laughing white hispanic….jpg)

 No.94468

Oh boy, time to take a look at the latest alt-left pseud, Paul Cockshott and his video "Getting Down to the Details"

( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTl4b0w6mpk )

>"we'll leave 'the Shops' out for simplicity's sake in our 5-point diagram [but we'll use the 'millions' denomination to sound like we can relate this to a real population lol]"

>at the moment I'm ignoring the flow of goods to schools and hospitals

<Video is called "Getting Down to the Details" but he doesn't hesitate to gloss over things that are inconvenient for him to explain, even in theory

>"the Factories"

<Cockbutt establishes in the comments section that even the production and pricing of specific commodities like sugar beets should be mandated and thoroughly controlled based "on science" so it begs the question of "what factories" will be allowed to exist to begin with, how many factories there will be, how many people they will individually employ, what types of workers will be employed there and what these workers will earn-as well as whether these workers will have chosen to work there or had been appointed. This is the kind of thing you'd expect to be touched upon from a video entitled "Getting Down to the Details".

>Cockbutt says in the comments that: "if you work harder you get paid more"

<allowing a company to subjectively pay individual employees more or less based on individual performance is allowing these workers to acquire disproportionate capital relative their peers and maybe even start selling things at a profit in "labor time credits". This isn't far-removed from status quo "capitalism" where workers are paid a wage based on factors both objective and subjective.

<Will a surgeon earn the same as a teacher or a trashman, what about other "public servants"? Don't expect an answer here. There are 821 different types of "Job" in the United States currently, I'd hate to be the guy that has to apportion out the duties and dues of all of them on an individual basis.

>"income tax is canceled out"

<Cockbutt doesn't attempt to tell us how many people are working in "the Factories" as opposed to "the Hospitals" and "etc." but he does know that "the Factories" will need four of something and "the Hospitals" "etc." will need two of something. Well actually the income tax is just assumed to be discarded and everything that isn't from "a Shop" from the "Hospitals, etc." is thus made free*

>Cockbutt claims in the comments that "China is 40% socialist"

<even though it has lower real public sector employment and taxes than the average OECD country, 4 million new independent businesses being created on a yearly basis and has unaudited livestream girls raking in thousands of petrodollars weekly (as this butthurt, decadent western roast beast can attest: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-weird-and-disturbing-world-of-chinese-livestreamers )], to put simply, China's current year economy (as opposed to its culture) is wholly conventional and its successes or failures can't be claimed by "socialism".

>Cockbutt claims in the comments that if you're not independently wealthy in a capitalist society you go hungry and starve, but in the U.S. and Britain it has been repeatedly shown that poor and unemployed people are much more likely to be obese than employed and wealthy people which is a complete contradiction.

Would you trust your society to commissar Cockbutt, anon?

* = in exchange for discarding 33% of your non-circulating labor time credits into "a bin"

____________________________
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 No.94513

>>94468

Cockshott is amusing. A genuine, bona-fide true believer of communism, in this day and age, makes for a bizarre window into the world of ideological possession.

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 No.94515

>>94513

What he's proposing in that particular diagram isn't communism (because it's not a group of free people just poking the public-access MoP however they feel), and it's not socialism (because it has a labor ministry).

It's basically just centralized economic planning… and for all the mockery of it (and for all it's a shitty system), that's basically how the economy in the US works.

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 No.94519

>>94468

>>Cockbutt says in the comments that: "if you work harder you get paid more"

>

><allowing a company to subjectively pay individual employees more or less based on individual performance is allowing these workers to acquire disproportionate capital relative their peers and maybe even start selling things at a profit in "labor time credits". This isn't far-removed from status quo "capitalism" where workers are paid a wage based on factors both objective and subjective.

>

><Will a surgeon earn the same as a teacher or a trashman, what about other "public servants"? Don't expect an answer here. There are 821 different types of "Job" in the United States currently, I'd hate to be the guy that has to apportion out the duties and dues of all of them on an individual basis.

I think you aren't aware of the labor theory of value.

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 No.94520

>>94468

damn so all the world's economy problems could be solved with a 5 box diagram on a piece of toilet paper?

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 No.94534

>>94519

I think you aren't aware of the value theory of labor.

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 No.94633

Well if you want to see his theories without it being watered down for a Ytube vid then why not just read the book he wrote which is free online in like a hundred different PDF's?

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 No.94637

File: dd4d8ff84b20b97⋯.png (60.22 KB,1266x644,633:322,ancapball.png)

>>94633

I don't know, why don't you read Human Action before coming here to shitpost?

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 No.94648

File: 24b5c2e167ca61b⋯.png (73.89 KB,494x463,494:463,ancap master race vs natio….png)

>>94637

>like I do

I love those memes

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 No.94650

>>94648

Ancap isn't civic-nationalism though.

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 No.94651

>>94650

Ancap is more broad and civnat is a bit too collectivist for "asolutepureneverbeentriedancapTM" but it certainly fits into libertarianism.

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 No.94654

File: d39ce45ebd8b441⋯.jpg (75.39 KB,564x397,564:397,Hoppe on immigration.jpg)

>>94651

What part of "I can kick the niggers out of my store and apartment complex if I want, for no other reasons besides their being niggers" is in favor of civnat?

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 No.94657

>>94654

What does this question have to do with civic nationalism and its ideas of determining one's value by his relation to a certain state?

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 No.94663

>>94654

>if I want

That. It can be both civnat and ethnat.

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 No.94683

>>94651

I think anyone who says "never been tried" should probably be shot. It's a tired, tired phrase and clearly it's lived long enough to be entirely misapplied.

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 No.95315

>>94534

I think you aren't aware of the labour value of theory

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 No.95532

>>95315

>>94534

>>94519

we did it, reddit

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 No.100995

Bump, because the left cannot shut up about Dickstabbed.

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