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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 8c2fbbe16900f7e⋯.jpg (199.43 KB, 1109x1169, 1109:1169, Thomas_Hobbes_(portrait).jpg)

 No.66891

I suppose this question is more oriented towards the anarchist side of /liberty/ than anyone else. As I see it, all social mammals have a sort of hierarchy or structure that to some degree maintains a cohesion within the community that allows said group to compete within its environment against other groups of organisms. Each subset of homo sapiens trivially has a hierarchy as all people have a unique arrangement of traits that either benefits them or detracts from their success based on their environment within that period of time. Is it unfair to simply view the state as sort of a gestalt of this hierarchy? It is known that individuals who seek power for themselves tend to succeed over individuals who do not. Such a behavior naturally creates structures in which there are people held in higher regard than others and such powerful people will from time to time consider the use of violence as a means of cementing their control. In a stateless society, how does one prevent the accumulation of power in such a way that it preserves their liberty and yet all at the same time prevents the "gestalt" from emerging?

 No.66913

>>66891

Sure it's possible not to have a state, at least when you define it similar to Oppenheimer: As the "organization of the political means", the political means being coercion, as opposed to economic means, voluntary exchange and association.

What you cannot eliminate are hierarchy and leadership, but you can make them non-coercive. Spiritual and religious leaders can do their job just fine without resorting to coercion at all, moral or intellectual authorities likewise, economic enterprises are per se non-coercive, and any fraternal societies, likewise, can do just fine using only economic means to achieve their objectives.

>In a stateless society, how does one prevent the accumulation of power in such a way that it preserves their liberty and yet all at the same time prevents the "gestalt" from emerging?

The less power you start out with, and the more decentralized that power is, the harder it is to acquire more and to threaten the system of freedom itself. Of course, there's no guarantee it won't happen at all, but that's because history itself isn't static. Under optimal conditions, I could imagine an anarchocapitalist society lasting for several hundred years before it became as statist as what we have now. The Icelandic Commonwealth lasted for over two hundred years and as far as decentralization of power and private law enforcement goes, it's pretty close to anarchocapitalism.


 No.66961

The concern in my eyes is not whether or not people can do it without coercion, but rather people will choose in their day to day actions to not BE coercive. With the example of the Icelandic Commonwealth, an analysis of their situation is something along the lines of the land being so resource poor that there was an inability to properly exploit the resources of the land itself and produce a surplus, a scenario mimicked by several peoples living in very cold resource starved areas such as the Inuits. The inability to produce a sufficient amount of surplus in such a fashion prevents a sort of unbalance of power where resources start to pool towards a group of individuals or an individual who eventually will act coercively. Is it possible to maintain a generally "stable" anarchist society without a state in a post-industrial state where surplus and the very imbalanced procurement of it is common?




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