/liberty/ - Liberty

>>62082

I'll be here all night.

>>62084

>I'm pretty sure the Reich ran up an enormous war bill, and hyperinflation destroyed their currency

They got really exhausted by the end of the war yes but the economic model had worked up till then so I assume any country would experience this as it is losing a total war regardless of economic policy.

>Do you have any sources on that quality of life improvement?

All I know is that they were producing a lot more after the Nazis came into power than before and that unemployment was close to 0% meaning a lot less people were starving. I honestly don't know too much and want to learn and read up about it.

>>62082

>>62085

Sorry, there was a shooting across the street from our apartment complex so the streets have been blocked off for the last hour and a half.

I think the first thing to point out is what's defined as "greatly benefited." If you look at automobiles, during the height of the American great depression, there were still about 3x as many cars per household than in the "prime" of Nazi Germany. Americans averaged 1 in 9 households owning a car during the Great Depression whereas Nazi Germany averaged about 1 in 30 households owning a car during the height of the Reich. I wish I had my statistic on this, but I've formatted my hard drive twice since then. The rest of this spiel is gonna go in a similar manner just to be forewarned. It's important to point this out since just as today most European countries have a lower standard of living than America even though they like to claim to be "more prosperous," so too did Nazi Germany. The three main goals of the Nazi party about 18 months into their reign was: 1. War Potential (they only had enough potential for small arms conflict), 2. Refuse to be associated with Germany's Debt, and 3. Save German Agriculture. The Nazis weren't really worried about unemployment because point #1 and #3 more or less had every working male employed on the public dole.

Tying back more to point #3 for a second, I think it's important to analyze how this tied into the 25 point program. A lot of folks will argue that many things the Nazis did economically were because of the fear of war or similar reasoning, but the changes made to business were largely part of the 25 point plan. Hitler's economic planners were, by and large, also his heaviest readers of Marx (Hermann Goering, Gottfried Feder, Goebbels, etc.). Assuming the Reichswirtschaftsministerium would have stayed completely out of economic planning entirely (hint: they didn't), the Nazis still would have run into issues with…

1) The legislation they passed specifically cartelizing most German businesses.

2) Their trade agreements with South Eastern Europe

3) Government Spending between the military, public works, and the Kraft durch Freude

>>62095

In the case of #1, the results of cartelizing businesses can be seen quite clearly whether it's the clusterfuck that is European Union businesses, ISPs in America, the Syrup industry in Canada… The list goes on. It would be easier to point out the historical exceptions to the rule that worked out (such Mondragon Corporation). In the case of #2, Germany had deals with Southern Europe where they were dealing under the market value and subsidizing the costs via taxpayer dollars. The Germans couldn't produce enough food for the entirety of the Reich despite this being one of their three major goals they set out to accomplish, and they were forced to make special agricultural trade deals with Southern Europe. They specifically had to make said deals with Southern Europe because of import/export laws being extremely strict/tariffs being ridiculously high for Western Europe and America I hope I don't need to go into why tariffs on products your own country can't produce enough of are bad. The main point here is that Nazi Germany couldn't even produce its own food but was somehow considered to be in prosperity, but the secondary point here is that if Southern Europe had received a better trade deal from the Americans or Soviets (or really anyone) who needed the food about a decade after the war (assuming the war had never happened), it's unlikely that any number of four year plans would have been able to stop the food shortages that would have occurred in Germany as it continued to struggle with its 2 million+ government funded farmers who were also on the tax dollar.

I don't really want to get into the debt of Germany too much since I think the other anons did an alright job with it plus it's Keynesianism all over again, but I do want to point out the Kraft durch Freude. Whenever you watch any of those WWII vids of people on the beach or enjoying themselves at a park, it being propaganda aside, a large reason that they were able to do that was because of the KdF. With the Reichswirtschaftsministerium already regulating how much workers could work, how much they could earn, what items cost, etc. the KdF was pretty much the bread and circuses keeping Germans from bitching up a storm with their newfound freetime. The KdF more or less funded (through government funding, once more) all the theater events, museums, etc. If it involved entertainment, the KdF was involved to subsidize it. Once more I shouldn't need to point out why subsidies fail over time, but I do want to bring this up on the basis that Germany was spending shit tons of money that they didn't have on Military projects, public works (including entertainment), agriculture, all the agencies they needed to create to run all these programs, etc. Germant knew they were spending debts they could never repay, and they largely pissed off the major investors around them (especially America and Britain) by stealing money from them to fund these public works with no intention of ever paying them back, even though the virtually no-interest loans were given to them in good faith to help repair their economy. That's actually another point: The Germans had to STEAL MONEY from other nations in order to make their system work because they didn't have enough even after hyperinflating their currency to pretend their war debts never existed. If you want an example of where this will get you, keep an eye on Italy and Greece over these last few years and over the next decade or so.

One of the things that makes me as upset as I get about most of the major wars America has been involved in (especially the Civil War and WWII) is that most of these wars (and the underlying problems leading up to them) would have resolved themselves via economic collapse and trade in the event that a war had never been started in the first place. We can't point to Nazi Germany's "miracle growth's downfall" because of a war fucking shit up, but we can point to similar economies around the world with similar regulations to that of the Nazis to quickly discover that they were nearing the bust of their boom-bust cycle right at the start of the war, and that most of the "miracles" of the German Economy were largely bookkeeping tricks no different than shit like the Koreans or Chinese fudging the numbers on national test scores or Sweden with rape statistics.

>>62095

>>62096

tl;dr- The Nazis were socialist as fuck and only avoided the calculation problem by keeping the dead rotting skin of a capitalist economy draped over their otherwise socialist state, except they even fucked up the socialist part by falling for the Keynes government spending meme without realizing you eventually have to pay shit back or people will stop doing business with you.

>>62095

>Sorry, there was a shooting across the street from our apartment complex so the streets have been blocked off for the last hour and a half.

wew

Can you point me in the direction of some books where I can find source or just more info for this, I've found a bunch on German rationing and imports but I can't find much else on my own aside from wikipedia which I am not inclined to trust.

Thanks anon.

>>62105

Here are some, including something right out of the horses mouth. The Road to Serfdom, Leftism Revisited and Human Action also talk about it, but the first is a bit longer, the second pretty long, and the third is something you'll probably be reading for half a year.

Here's also an excellent essay by George Reisman, Why Nazism was Socialism and why Socialism is Totalitarian: https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

>>62122

>Nazis privatized so they must be socialists!

>>62251

>antynatalia

>posiadanie cipy

to jest mało udany trap, idioto

Not a single commie who wants to tell us that the national SOCIALISTS were capitalists, because they're busy with this:

>>62457

>>62464

>>62415

I guess it's undisputed, then?

>>62441