No.61813
Communism except its good because it's never been tried before
No.61814
when the government does stuff
the more stuff it does the socialister it is
No.61815
>>61812
Orthodox Marxism and whatever the Scandinavian countries do. Everything else is laissez-faire capitalism. :^)
No.61820
No.61832
>>61812
Usually means no private property. Centralization and Collectivism of all sorts. It's hard to become too specific about it considering all the different flavors of it you have. The thing they're all sure is that they hate "Capitalism" and especially their boss and or parents.
No.61843
>>61815
But aren't the Scandinavian countries social democracies? They have capitalism but a very heavy welfare state?
No.61937
>>61936
>Somalia
>Free markets
Maby you'll meme it into reality if you repeat it enough.
No.61940
>>61936
>somalia
>a country whose communist government collapsed and were run by warlords for a decade before forming another heavily socialist government
>capitalist
nigga u dumb as fuck
Better roads were built by the warlords than the government that came after them.
No.61982
socialism is when the workers control the means of production rather than them being privately owned.
No.61999
>>61982
So if government represents the people(workers included of course) and it controls the means of production, then you have socialism.
No.62001
>>61999
Not necessarily. You could as well say that capitalists announcing themselves as the representatives of the people is socialism. While it could be the case that government obeys to the will of the workers, it never is the case as the very existence of government comes about with plenty of corruption and moral hazard.
No.62006
No.62108
>>62094
>implying bastiat didn't have that debate on fucking lockdown
He kept his cool while proudhon got asshurt and started flinging insults. I'm not seeing how this reflects well on commies at all.
No.62111
>>62094
Is the image of Proudhon losing his shit supposed to somehow show him in a positive light?
No.62121
>>61812
It's state capitalism.
Communism is state capitalism as well.
No.62225
>>62094
can you explain mutualism to me?
No.62233
>>62225
Sure, you're welcome.
No.62234
>>62233
Would be great without the memefaggotry for once.
No.62236
>>62233
>oppressive unjust hierarchies
So, just like in an ancap society then.
No.62237
>>62236
They're against voluntary hierarchy as well. It oppresses you even if you agree to it. It's the internalized misogyny of the Left.
No.62247
>>62233
>partial opposition based on ideology
No.62249
>>62237
>voluntary hierarchy
Well that's not freedom of association then.
No.62333
>>61812
Something that has never been tried and can never fail.
No.62409
>>61812
"Socialism is when the workers own the means of production. And no, using your computer to make useful open source programs isnt you making the production yourself, but a continuation of the gabitalist system." - 1st yr. /pol/sci student
No.62432
>>62409
Where the fuck do "workers owning the means of construction" even come from? This sounds suspiciously like /leftypol/ denying once more that there was socialism before Marx, and trying to narrow down the definition as far as possible.
No.62443
>>62409
>>62432
Sometimes the definitions is slightly changed to "workers democratically owning the means of production", so if the workers don't always vote what to do with the means of production, then it's not real socialism.
No.62450
>>62443
>real socialism.
kek. There's that meme again.
No.62455
>>62443
>it's not real socialism
Real socialism is like the horizon, its an imaginary line that moves away as you try to approach it.
No.62496
>kek based gommies say over and over thad real sogialism never egsisted stupid morons nod an argumend gommie :DDDD
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "CAPITALISM HAS CAUSED SERIOUS INEQUALITIES AND POVERTY"?! WE'VE NEVER HAD REAL CAPITALISM, ONLY CORPORATE PRIVILEGES AND SOCIALISM!!! READ ROTHBARD, IDIOT!
No.62522
>>62514
God bless Ameriga brodher
No.62525
>>62522
sorry forgot about my shitposting flag
No.62563
It's the belief that your property is not your own, but belongs to rulers in the capital.
No.62702
>>61846
>/leftypol/ can't understand and doesn't repeatedly point out the difference between Scandinavian social democracy and socialism
No.66333
No.66346
>>61936
Venezuela is a social democracy too, you dumb idiot
No.66392
>>62001
>it never is the case as the very existence of government comes about with plenty of corruption and moral hazard.
>if my shitty ideology fails, it's not representative of it!
Could've just said so at the beginning.
No.66393
>>66346
I thought Venezuela was democratic socialsm.
No.66395
>>66393
It was somewhat Democratic. Now it's Totalitarian Socialism.
No.66447
>>66346
just like burgerland?
No.66449
>>66447
I'd say burgerland is more corporatist or crony capitalist.
No.66451
>>66396
Thank you for that pic.
No.66452
>>66449
>i-it's not real capitalism!!
No.66456
>>66452
It's not pure capitalism in the same sense as a mixture of 80% water and 20% arsenic isn't pure water. This isn't hard to figure out.
And mirroring this argument of ours is retarded to begin with. The reasons we make fun of socialists invoking the not-real-socialism-meme are twofold. One, they only ever claim it in hindsight; before a socialist country fails, they will happily defend it against all accusations, until that becomes unfeasible. Then they abandon ship and pretend that it never was "real" socialism to begin with. The second reason is because socialists have a completely botched understanding of economics. They can never point to any specific feature or policy and explain its effects on the economy, they only know that capitalism = bad and socialism = good. We, on the other hand, can explain exactly what effects a minimum wage, subsidies, production quotas, licensing or a fiat currency will have.
No.66480
No.66498
>>61812
>What is socialism?
A method to redistribute wealth… without create wealth.
No.66528
>>62094
Can we have a mutualist-georgist alliance, senpai?
No.66635
>>66449
what about europe?
No.66639
>>66635
"Muh single currency"
"Muh central bank"
"Muh reforms"
No.66648
>>62236
seems like an ancap society but one where you are forced to only work in co-ops instead of voluntarily joining one. Rather silly if you ask me, as there is nothing forcing people away from co-ops in a completely capitalist society and even in our bastardized capitalist society there are a few co-ops which are doing pretty well.
No.66653
No.66777
No.66823
>>61936
Somalia is a failed socialist country you fucking dipshit
also it's run by niggers with an average IQ of 65 so no wonder it's a shithole
No.66883
>>66823
>socialist country
they have no free unversity education or free healthcare
No.66919
>>66883
But they do have hordes of useless peasants who contribute nothing, but still believe that they're entitled to everything. Seems socialist enough to me. Besides, it's fucking Africa. I'd be genuinely surprised if they had any kind of education or healthcare at all.
No.67104
>>66919
>, but still believe that they're entitled to everything
>implying
No.67139
>>67104
Really? Just like the rest of Africa, every time there's a famine or drought, or a disease outbreak, or civil unrest, they expect the civilised world to just drop everything and come and fix it for them. They're like little baby birds: they just sit there with their heads tilted back, mouths open expectantly, just waiting for somebody to come and drop food down their gullets.
No.67169
>>67139
> they expect the civilised world to just drop everything and come and fix it for them
[citation needed]