/liberty/ -Occupational Licensure

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Occupational Licensure Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 03:21:02 No.105241

Occupational licensure is why I believe the whole "First we have to win the battle of ideas" will never succeed. The vast majority of people I meet at least agree that the licensing requirements are far too strict, and I've been met with nearly unanimous approval that "hair salon" licensing is bullshit and needs to be done away with unilaterally–yet it continues to exist. If I ever want to get depressed and think about how little a future I will ever have, I just think about occupational licensing laws.

____________________________

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 04:37:02 No.105243

File: 900ba6b0dc7aca1⋯.webm (3 MB,848x476,212:119,sad_dog_chinks.webm)

bumping because this also depresses me now that I consider it

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 05:15:02 No.105245

>"First we have to win the battle of ideas" will never succeed

Yes, I do agree with this and the observation about hair salon licensing is really good.

That's why I'm getting of the idea that the only way to get more freedom is not just spreading ideas but by imposing freedom on others, using the State or any form of coercitive power the society is under.

Ancap ideas are the greatest starting point, but one great ancap society will never be achieved.

It's much better being realistic and taking action, like Mikheil Saakashvili did in Georgia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili#Economic_and_government_reforms ). The guy improved the situation a lot, but he did have to coerce people into this improvement. I mean, do you think Georgia would have gone anywhere with libertarians just spamming ideas and never taking any action?

That's the sad thing with Libertarians. While commies can conquer Russia and make the soviet state despite being a minority or having all the best places in the whole university system with ideas like trans child prostitutes, libertarians cannot defend shit that interest them (ex. the web) and they're unable to take part in the political process at all.

If you support leftists ideas, you get support from the left. If you support some libertarian ideas, libertarians will find where you aren't libertarian enough and won't support you.

Maybe the cultural shift we need as libertarians is to stop applying our doctrine autistically like some bureaucrat applies State's regulation.

Start using libertarian ideas and austrian-economics as a way to get to more freedom, not as a goal per se.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 05:45:14 No.105247

File: fca72e2a7cf129f⋯.jpg (913.29 KB,1280x847,1280:847,ancap_keynes_keynesian_BTF….jpg)

>>105245

>If you support leftists ideas, you get support from the left. If you support some libertarian ideas, libertarians will find where you aren't libertarian enough and won't support you.

Not really. NatSocs and Commies are both leftists and they absolutely hate each other. I think you've been in the libertarian movement for so long that you've forgotten how bad it is in the other 3 corners.

>Maybe the cultural shift we need as libertarians is to stop applying our doctrine autistically like some bureaucrat applies State's regulation. Start using libertarian ideas and austrian-economics as a way to get to more freedom, not as a goal per se.

You clearly don't understand the value in a principle. That a principle, when applied, create stable markets with consistent rules that cannot be changed to benefit a small demographic. And the principle of private-property based NAP is shown to have consistent positive effects in all socioeconomic situations when applied. The answer to every "gotcha!" thrown at you by statists always comes back around to following in line with the NAP.

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Holo 07/31/19 (Wed) 05:52:27 No.105248

File: 9040642d0b8bedc⋯.jpg (142.87 KB,548x776,137:194,1428559234355.jpg)

>>105245

>That's why I'm getting of the idea that the only way to get more freedom is not just spreading ideas but by imposing freedom on others, using the State or any form of coercitive power the society is under.

I agree, it's called "ask for forgiveness, don't ask for permission". If you ask for permission to help normalfags, you'll most likely hear "no", just do the right thing and say you're sorry after you've helped them, and things will turn out much better for everyone.

>The guy improved the situation a lot, but he did have to coerce people into this improvement. I mean, do you think Georgia would have gone anywhere with libertarians just spamming ideas and never taking any action?

Saakashvili is based, he even tried to become the president of Ukraine to carry out the same reforms there.

>with ideas like trans child prostitutes

See, I think any discussion involving children should be the foundation of libertarian rhetoric. It's impossible to talk about how great everything will be in ancap when you're constantly hit with "but muh child prositutes", "but think of the children". The best way to deal with strawmen is to pre-emptively disarm them, so you have to know exactly what will happen to the children, and explain it in a way that fits in with the rest of your ideas.

>If you support leftists ideas, you get support from the left. If you support some libertarian ideas, libertarians will find where you aren't libertarian enough and won't support you.

This is what sucks about libertarians, it's like herding cats and whatever, but I think everyone more/less supports libertarian ideas, so instead of shilling for the whole package of something that sounds as edgy as "anarcho + capitalism", we must definitely shill for individual ideas which everyone can agree with. It's like a puzzle, you can't sell the whole picture, but selling individual pieces of the puzzle until someone ends up with the whole picture is extremely effective, and this should be our #1 strategy.

>>105247

>The answer to every "gotcha!" thrown at you by statists always comes back around to following in line with the NAP.

Statists don't understand how the NAP works, they just assume it's pacifism or some shit. You're explaining meta-systems to people who have an IQ of around 100 and a one-dimensional understanding of politics.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 06:01:24 No.105249

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>105248

>This is what sucks about libertarians, it's like herding cats and whatever, but I think everyone more/less supports libertarian ideas, so instead of shilling for the whole package of something that sounds as edgy as "anarcho + capitalism", we must definitely shill for individual ideas which everyone can agree with. It's like a puzzle, you can't sell the whole picture, but selling individual pieces of the puzzle until someone ends up with the whole picture is extremely effective, and this should be our #1 strategy.

The tactic should be to, as you suggest, spread individual libertarian thoughts within the populace, even if it won't be implemented by the State. People will begin to gradually (this will take a few decades lol) oppose the State. The grand strategy is that when the invenitable State collapse occurs, libertarian thought fills the void rather than more authoritarian faggotry. This is the way actual change can occur.

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Holo 07/31/19 (Wed) 06:07:06 No.105250

>>105249

Exactly!

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 06:09:33 No.105251

File: f9a997933fb760c⋯.gif (2.74 MB,720x960,3:4,0.gif)

>>105250

Also: please stop namefagging. Just use "anonymous" like the rest of us; you're undermining the very foundation of anonymous imageboards and you make the rest of /liberty/ look like cock-sucking faggots.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 06:20:36 No.105252

>>105251

I can't, I need to namefag a little bit because I run a board and I want to shill it, and I also want people to actually know a bit about the stance and views of the person that runs it to create trust. Anonymity is good and all, but you can't be a leader of something and be anonymous, you need to put yourself out there and take some responsibility.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 06:26:21 No.105253

File: 88598dcdbd8b303⋯.jpg (18.33 KB,294x395,294:395,cat_thumbs-up.jpg)

>>105252

How are you building trust with the community while you actively make the community look worse via namefagging?

Also thanks for removing the namefag. Your board's thread is already up. If people want to use it, they will; if they're not interested in it, then you can't change they're view. I'm comfortable with the /liberty/ board and I'm not worried about leftists "invading" the board. Because everytime they try, they get burst the fuck out and leave (and maybe even make them question their leftist beliefs). I would argue leftists' failed attempts at subversion are actually helping the community, because personally, I get better at debating by arguing with them.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 07:37:54 No.105254

File: c2d771c6cb6abf9⋯.jpg (361.74 KB,567x709,567:709,liberty vs holo.jpg)

>>105253

>How are you building trust with the community while you actively make the community look worse via namefagging?

That's not true.

>Your board's thread is already up. If people want to use it, they will; if they're not interested in it, then you can't change they're view.

Why do you think Coca-Cola still advertises their product when everyone already drinks it and knows where to find it? Why do all other companies spend so much money on this stuff if it's stupid? Marketing is not about changing anyone's view on a brand, it's about reminding people that the brand is still relevant.

>I would argue leftists' failed attempts at subversion are actually helping the community, because personally, I get better at debating by arguing with them.

I can see the value in that, but then again, there needs to be a place exclusively for ancaps to discuss things on their own. I mean, if you are looking for a fight, you can always go to the bar across the street instead of bringing the whole bar to the library where people are trying to study and have serious discussions, and while you're at the bar, you're also exposing a lot more outsiders to libertarian ideas than you are here, so it's simply a smarter way to go about it if you want to see leftists get rekt and also sharpen your debating skills, while also not disturbing those ancaps who don't want to take part in that and have no patience for that shit.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 08:15:49 No.105259

>>105253

>leftists' failed attempts at subversion are actually helping the community, because personally, I get better at debating by arguing with them.

If the attempts aren't a lot, they're stimulating. But when they invade the community they destroy it because after a while it becomes demotivating having to answer or read the usual unoriginal leftists talking points repeated again and again and again.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 08:18:51 No.105260

File: 0797ed10b8950a4⋯.jpg (38.86 KB,510x600,17:20,cat_fluff.jpg)

>>105254

>>105259

Honestly, keep advertising your board so all the low-quality shitposting ancaps can leave. Just don't namefag and I won't care.

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 08:28:13 No.105261

>>105260

I'm not the guy with the board (what board?)

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Holo 07/31/19 (Wed) 10:44:57 No.105265

File: 40b5ff671cd22ad⋯.jpg (116.61 KB,850x1320,85:132,afcf2f628ec9b379b5b7d0c940….jpg)

>>105261

Glad you asked!

>>>/holo/

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Anonymous 07/31/19 (Wed) 12:20:09 No.105269

>>105243

I want to agree with your statement, but jesus fuck that video man. I'd almost rather you posted horrible goreshit.

>>105253

I love the irony of you complaining about someone using namefagging to shill for a board and how it doesn't work, and while you're doing so >>105261 appears.

>>105250

I'm not sure that's what you were getting at? It seems like libertarian political strategies are as follows:

1 - Purely ideological. Stay consistent and make coalitions, never compromise. Democracy through the rest of the populace will carry us. This seems to be Ron Paul's approach. This seems to be how the Corn Laws got repealed.

2 - Libertarian Fabianism. We need to take whatever amount more of liberty we can. This appears to be Saakashvili's approach and what Rothbard explicitly argued against.

3 - It's not a NAP violation if it's a tax revolt. Basically, what the Founding Fathers of the U.S. did.

4 - Doomer Libertarianism. The collapse is coming, just be ready to fill the void when it happens. What >>105249 and https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/07/atilla-mert-sulker/waiting-for-the-collapse-a-liberty-renaissance/ are about . Counterargument is pointing to Venezuela, Zimbabwe, or Russia.

5 - Browneout/"Move with Your Feet" crew. C.f. Harry Browne/Doug Casey .

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07/13/20 (Mon) 19:45:21 No.105674

I pay somewhere from $60-$80 every two years for my license. The license is no guarantee that I am not going to be bad at my profession. If that was the case, there would be hardly any disciplinary summaries in the back of my state board newsletter. Licensure is a scam to make extra money for the state and create a regulated professional monopoly. The hurdle is convincing people that you can be competent at your profession without a license. Here is a test at how brain-washed people are. Next person you come across, ask them if they would want a licensed doctor to treat them or an unlicensed doctor. Bonus Round, tell the licensed doctor is brand new, the unlicensed doctor has been practicing for 20 years.

Speaking of physicians, I really feel bad for them. Not only do they have a state board but they also have other board certifications that they are generally force to get or they unable to be hired.

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