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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: 9cde2ab664ca921⋯.png (40.15 KB,628x294,314:147,guardian_work_less.png)

 No.103452

http://archive.is/6akzC

Guys! If we just work less, there will be less pollution! Darn those greedy capitalists!

____________________________
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 No.103458

>>103452

isnt living shorter more important? and not reproducing?

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 No.103459

>>103458

if you really want to cut down on your carbon emissions you should just kill yourself and you'll get rid of all emmission

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 No.103461

File: 4f51cd273b0c7fb⋯.mp4 (504.23 KB,640x526,320:263,stop_posting_these_things.mp4)

>>103452

A four-day week won't make the planet any more green, but if government wasn't involved, we would have moved towards the 20-30 hour work week fucking decades ago much in the way we moved from the 80 hour work week to the 40 hour work week back in the early 1900s (unions like to push this as their greatest achievement, but they basically just rode productivity curves and mass production models that made goods cheap enough for the first time in history for people to not NEED to work long hours every single fucking day). Human productivity dips dramatically after the first 4 hours of work in a given day to a level where anything longer doesn't make sense outside of critical operations (trucking, rigging, construction, etc.), and we should have reached a point where anything more than 25ish hours would be for the purpose of purchasing luxury goods.

That is to say, 40 and 60 and even 80 hour work weeks would still exist, but the national average should have been reduced to about 24 hours globally outside of those specific jobs and/or third world nations. Government forces us to work more and harder than ever and now these damn hippies are jumping on the bandwagon like some sort of psyop to further prevent what has been common fucking sense to anyone with a brain-most office workers only need to work maybe 4 hours in a day tops plus checking their email once or twice in the evening, or only have them work like 2-3 hours in the mornings and 1-3 hours in the evenings where they're most needed with maybe checking their emails three times a day on their off-weeks. "Crunch days" might exist where you need everyone (really the code monkeys, middle management, and like one salaryman) in the office for 8+ hours to accomplish a task, but generally you don't. Salaries are one of the only reasons businesses are loathe to adopt the "20 hour work week" because they feel like they're wasting money not having the dude work even though his work becomes almost nonexistent by hour 6, hence why salarymen typically have to put in 50-70 hours a week. On the hourly end of things, the only reason the 40 hour work week still exists at all is because of government taking a third of your damn paycheck (or more in other countries) and proceeding to take another fifth of your company's earnings (and let's not forget the tenth taken by the local state/city governments or the 1-3% taken by sales tax after the fact), and installing a million regulations that you have to climb through in the process.

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 No.103465

>>103459

Yeah, but no one wants to willingly kill themselves, this is why we need a strong government to do it. Vote for me and I'll kill everyone, starting with the fascists, the capitalists, and the white men first.

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 No.103505

>>103461

Any books you have on this stuff. This sounds fascinating. I used to dismiss the 40 hr work week as some leftist thing but you now have me interested.

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 No.103517

>>103505

The leftists try to take credit for it, but it was mostly a result of the industrial revolution and factory lines. We Are Capitalists made a short (2-4 minute) labor day video on it a few years ago but it seems to have been removed from youtube. Here's the accompanying article if I remember correctly. https://fee.org/articles/thank-capitalism-for-the-weekend/

I have some other sources but I won't even get home for about 12 hours between work and the gym. I'll try to remember to post them tonight. Polite sage because shit thread.

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 No.103551

File: 23207359aca41b1⋯.mp4 (5.16 MB,1280x720,16:9,40_hour_Work_week.mp4)

Here's that video I was talking about. It was on fagbook of all places, but it let me access the post without an account somehow. This was the accompanying text.

https://pastebin.com/czA7SPDn

I could have sworn FEE, Reason, and a number of other websites wrote articles on this topic, but I can't seem to find them. Then again I haven't been heavily invested in discussing this topic in detail since around 2015-2016. I know at least a company in New Zealand experimented with a 32 hour work week where they paid their employees the same but asked them to only come in four days a week instead of five, and the results were that they maintained the exact same level of productivity, but that there was a…

>24% increase in work-home balance reported by employees

>Higher productivity from the employees when they were in the office

>Attendance increased significantly (employees were punctual in showing up on time, didn't leave early, and took fewer breaks when they were in the office)

Sweden did a similar study where they reduced the work day from 8 hours to 6 hours, and found that the employees working 6 hour days were less likely to quit, take sick days, or otherwise provide poor performance. They also found it heavily reduced the number of emails sent or meetings requested since people were trying to maximize what they did during those six hours. Sahlgrenska University Hospital tried something similar, and while the initial costs to the hospital were pretty damn high (about $1.5 million USD per year), they managed to increase their operations by 20%, take on operations they'd normally send elsewhere, reduced sick leave to almost nothing, and decreased the waiting time on surgeries from months down to weeks. Basically the biggest downside they found to the 6 hour work week was that employees who weren't part of the program bitched up a storm and became more likely to quit when their counterparts got to work 2 hours less for the same pay.

Article related from 2017: https://archive.fo/jid9s

What needs to happen for the 20-24 hour work week to become a reality is simple- employers need to cut hours more than they cut pay. It seems counter-intuitive, and obviously a compromise must be made somewhere, but the productivity curve is closer to 6 hours a day 4 days a week or 4-5 hours a day 5 days a week in which a company that fully utilizes that sort of schedule gets far more done, and with there being more laborers than there are jobs, it wouldn't hurt to hire more people to work fewer hours (while still being within reasonable wages of course, unlike this part time minimum wage bullshit that's typically used as a counter-argument).

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 No.103618

>>103551

Interesting, you mention wages would that decrease somewhat. I know you said that it should be more hours cut then wages but I just wonder how much of the wages would be cut.

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 No.103629

>>103461

so what does the government *actually* do to stop this?

'taking your money' is not an excuse, because without government services you would be paying for your own schools, security, pension, and paying more for everything subsidised

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 No.103633

>>103629

The answer is still "taking my money." The top three federal expenditures, which make up a supermajority of the budget, are two different kinds of welfare and defense spending a third kind of welfare. It's safe to say I receive zero benefit from any of these things. I don't use the vast majority of the other services the state provides, either. Those few I do use frequently involve me waiting in lines for far longer than I like, filling out far more forms than are necessary; that is to say these services are undersupplied, overpriced, and of inferior quality. This isn't even getting into the amount of overhead costs involved in collecting taxes, which are decidedly higher than what a business spends on ensuring receivables. Per the Economic Calculation Problem, among other things, it can be shown that these services will be allocated efficiently by the private market, rather than being under or over supplied. By the same token, private supply is of these goods would be lower in price and higher in quality. All of this translates to an immense amount of productive that simply does not exist thanks to the public sector. Because this productivity has gone down the drain, we must work more hours per week to compensate.

Further, regardless of the quality or efficiency of government services, the coercive nature of taxation means that the very act of taxing necessarily kills productivity, regardless of how the money is used. Taxation is alwats a redistribution of wealth, from the taxpayer to the tax receiver. Even if no welfare system is in place, wealth is still redistributed from the taxpayers to the government and government contractors. This redistribution increases the payoff of being a tax receiver, and decreases the playoff of being a productive tax player. If there is less incentive to be productive, people will stop being productive and become tax receivers. This increases the total cost of the tax receivers and decreases the revenue from tax payers, meaning that the tax rate must be increased to pay for the tax receivers. The tax increase causes a further decreased incentive to be productive, which causes fewer people to be productive, which necessitates a further tax increase…

This downward spiral causes a slow but steady erosion of productivity in the economy until it looks like Venezuela. This downward spiral will occur regardless of how the taxes are spent or on whom. It will occur regardless of how much low the initial tax rate is. These factors only influence the how quickly the erosion happens. Because productivity is being eroded in this manner, we must work longer hours to compensate.

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