/liberty/ - Liberty

I’m not a libertarian, but OP is an imbecile.

The peace of society is maintained by society. Libertarians do not live with armed bodyguards any more than anyone else. There are sometimrs surging hordes of barely checked evilz in very dysfunctional societies, but these things do not happen in functioning societies. Part of why libertarians are sometimes hated and targeted eith smear campaigns portraying them as paranoid is precisely that the political bravery of libertarians is very inconvenient to some governments.

I discovered that back when I was a one world government libertarian who disliked illegal immigration mostly because I disliked borders. Apparently I was to know my anti-borders stance as legalistic xenophobia - leftists do suck sometimes, I say it as a convert.

We need to be smart enough and honest enough to admit that we can’t win over our opponents by shooting ourselves in the rhetorical head. Don’t be a total dumbass to your opponents. Instead of projecting your own irrational paranoia, realize that the libertarian’s basic trust in society is something we all rely on, though we in fact trust in it LESS than libertarians do.

Also, governments *don’t* protect libertarians. Libertarians get ignored for efficiency’s sake (lawful libertarians who tolerate being ignored provide a subtle contribution to the possibility of small, efficient governments) or watched as threats (libertarians are actively supposed to be disloyal to the government; they’re anti-government activists, and governments vary in how well they tolerate that). Either way, libertarians aren’t treasured and protected. They don’t even want to be.

>>103351

>The peace of society is maintained by society.

then why has violence fallen dramatically over the last 300 years? has society becomes more societal?

<if the government doesn't steal your money, how can you possibly protect yourself?

I'd arm myself and/or pay someone to protect me (at a price point determined by the free market).

The government has never protected me.

/thread

>>103359

what happens when the people everyone is paying decide they want more money?

>>103364

imagine being worried about getting shot, raped and murdered, what a weak bitch

>>103362

But anon! If you pay taxes the government protects you from being kidnapped and killed by the government! :^)

>>103378

They offer a premium service and charge more for it. Should they start to extort people, another protection company would take their business.

>>103353

>then why has violence fallen dramatically over the last 300 years? has society becomes more societal?

I am very skeptical. The 20th century was one of the most violent in the history of mankind.

Other than that, yes, people have become more societal overall, we are taught how to get along with each other more than we used to, and in fact more than is good for us. Unironically, people these days are too complacent. Just a few weeks ago, I was told by a social worker that I have no right to self-defense, that is how complacent people are. The very idea that sometimes, violence might be a solution, is appalling to many.

>>103348

>There will be no police to enforce laws that protect you from niggers, commies, fascists, etc

The laws don't protect you, the police does (currently, more on that soon). South Africa, Honduras, Germany and Sweden have esentially the same legal protection against homicide, yet their homicide rates a very different. The reason is partially culture, partially that the police in Germany and Sweden actually does its job (kinda). There are many factors that influence crime rates, the law isn't one. To act like "the law" mysteriously protects you as soon as the police enforce it is to get things exactly backwards, it's the police that protects you by enforcing the laws, not the law protecting you by being enforced by the police. You got me? To say otherwise is essentially allegorical. There is nothing wrong with it 90% of the time, but this discussion is the rest of the 10%.

Now, after we've hopefully settled the semantics, let me point out that ancaps are big fans of personal armament precisely because it enables you to defend yourself from niggers and commies, and that we have always maintained that a private police works. There are several historical examples, from the railway police to some startup firm in America that was set up by cops who got sick of how inefficient the police force was. Throughout the past, in many areas - even civilized ones - you couldn't count on the police to defend you. Defense was, in the first instance, what you owed to yourself. There was no institutionalized police at all, sometimes, or if there was, it couldn't get to you fast enough to defend you from robbers and indians.

>>103378

You're assuming they'd have a monopoly on violence. If they start demanding too much, you can leave them and join another company. If you can't, then that still doesn't suggest they'll be untouchable. You *might* end up with a mafia, but that can be the case even now. Mexico has a mafia and it's not lacking in government, and the Chicago Police Department has acted like a mafia in the past (probably still does). The police department in my town of birth has bossed my family around more than any mafia in the area.

>>103362

Its track record when it comes to protecting my family is also abysmal. My family was once asked by the DA to take care of the store of a neighbor who was put in custody for selling drugs. So we did, but that meant selling much of his inventory. We talked about this with his lawyer, and he gave it his okay. We assumed the lawyer knew what he was talking about.

A rather short time later, our neighbor got out. He threatened us at least three times, and each time, the police took way too long to respond. First time, they didn't come at all when I called them, just laughed in my face and pretty much told me I deserved it for hanging out with drug dealers (at the request of the DA?). My mother had to call them, they arrived an hour after the guy was gone. Second time, two cops came, they seemed like two genuinely nice guys, but they couldn't do anything, apparently. Third time, my mother had to tell them the history we have with the neighbor including the deal we had with the DA, our family history, her blood group and the history of Constantinople in the 4th century before they would come.

Last time I called the cops was on a different matter. This time, they charged me for protecting myself, and their police reports were worthless. They didn't even know what the area looked like. It was clear they didn't want to work on the case, and yet they did.

So, the next time anyone gets in my face, I will not bother to call the cops. I will drop the guy myself, then drink the rest of my Nesquik and head home.

>>103397

>My family was once asked by the DA to take care of the store of a neighbor

Why was your family obligated (or forced?) to manage your neighbor's business?

>>103423

We weren't obligated. We could've denied the request, but back then, we didn't think it was that much of a big deal, and we certainly didn't expect such a big shitstorm from developing out of it. Most importantly, we didn't think the DA would fuck us over so badly. You'd think if you responded to their request, they'd actually care a little bit about your wellbeing, but no. Nothing. There is very little loyalty in the public sector.

>>103348

kike tier double-post. reported