No.103117
>hurrr tax is theft
living in a country with taxes is completely voluntary. all you have to do is make your own country just like making a new business in the free market.
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No.103118
Opening up a business is, in principle, possible. If you can't, that's because you lack the capability to do so (often from lack of training or savings, things that are entirely in your control), or because what you have to offer isn't valued by anyone else. To complain that you cannot open a thriving business is to complain that people aren't forced to buy your stuff. It's egotistical nonsense.
You cannot create your own country, not even in principle. There is no established process for it, and in fact the current community of governments will fight you if you try it. To complain you cannot create your own country nowadays is to complain that you cannot govern yourself, hence that people, far from just not supporting you, actively thwart your self-determination.
The two situations aren't comparable, but I'm used to lefties thinking only the form of an argument counts and not its substance.
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No.103119
>create your own country
Since that always works so well. Obligatory mises article for addressing recycled arguments:
https://mises.org/wire/do-we-consent-government-refusing-emigrate
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No.103120
>>103119
That article is retarded for a few reasons:
(1) The quote at the bottom is a libertarian pretending to care about someone who was born with certain conditions
(2) It doesn't address the point about making your own country
(3) It compares emigration with being on a fucking ship.
>>103118
>You cannot create your own country, not even in principle.
Bruh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanov_Empire_(micronation)
>and in fact the current community of governments will fight you if you try it.
How? They'll just ignore it.
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No.103121
This is like saying that by moving to a bad neighborhood you are consenting to getting robbed by niggers. You may be accepting a risk, but that doesn't mean that the niggers are in the right by robbing you.
The question that must be asked is: do these massive organizations that call themselves governments have a valid claim of ownership over every single bit of land, currency, and asset that they act over? I do not believe that it can be shown that they do.
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No.103122
>>103117
>create your own country
The totalitarian shitholes you support do not allow people to create their own countries, though I'd love to, thanks for the suggestion.
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No.103125
>>103120
>It doesn't address the point about making your own country
I hoped the picture with the filename "Burning of Atlanta" was clear enough, but I can see now that's a little too subtle for you. So let me make myself clear, here. It doesn't matter matter if you're the CSA, the Continental Congress, or the Republic of Rhodesia, if you want to be left alone to do your own thing, other governments absolutely will use military force and sanctions to stop you if they can. ****
>It compares emigration with being on a fucking ship.
I'm truly sorry you don't understand how analogies work. It must severely limit the availability of writing to you.
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No.103134
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No.103139
>>103120
>How? They'll just ignore it.
They will ignore you right up until you break one of their laws. Not paying your taxes is one that's sure to get their attention.
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No.103141
>>103120
>(1) The quote at the bottom is a libertarian pretending to care about someone who was born with certain conditions
Is this the meme that libertarians are all heartless bastards? I mean, I guess we are, if being heartless means we have never participated in any genocide.
>How? They'll just ignore it.
Not if they can tax it instead, or if they feel like conscripting you. You are entirely dependent on their goodwill.
Do you even Principality of Sealand?
>>103121
This.
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No.103146
>>103117
If I try to change jobs, I am not compelled at gunpoint to surrender my home and forbidden from visiting my extended family.
Companies are not, by definition, territorial monopolies on force, whereas states are. For that reason and so many more, your comparison fails.
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No.103199
>>103146
You are always free to kill yourself.
No IRS on Heaven nor on Hell as far as I know.
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No.103201
>>103117
sure, I'll just go start my own country without taxes >>101408
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No.103208
>>103199
Well gee I guess I can do anything at all to other people and since they haven't killed themselves it means that they consent to it.
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No.103214
>>103208
>murder is bad because people think so
Actually yes, murder is bad not because any property rights or religious bullshit but because people say so, it's called the Social Contract, the more you know.
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No.103215
>>103134
Libertarians:
>leftists are the losers of history
Also libertarians:
>those evil far-left statist are just bullies, they are so powerful! They control everything!
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No.103216
>>103214
Who are you quoting?
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No.103219
>>103215
>intelligent sociopaths gain power on the backs of gullible retards
>democracy allows gullible retards to have power
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No.103220
>>103215
>all these strawmen and not a single argument about anything important to be found
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No.103237
>>103121
>doesn't mean that the niggers are in the right by robbing you.
Why, inferior?
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No.103238
>>103121
>valid claim
Yeaj, they stronger than you
Hilarious, liberals crying about muh laws yet they hate the ones who created and enforce said laws.
Like children.
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No.103240
>>103237
The seizure of property, under the pretense that said seizure is ethically justified, requires logical demonstration that said the agent seizing is entitled to said property, in order for the pretense to hold up to scrutiny. Such demonstration is impossible in this scenario, result being that I am not obliged to act in accordance to the nigger's demands, i.e., he is not 'in the right'.
>>103238
Being 'strong' does not entitle one to goods. The exercise of strength may be used to attain goods, but this is outside of the scope of ethics. OP set forth his proposition in the scope of ethics, that taxation is not theft because individuals may choose exile instead. This is false, as the potential to resist or flee from aggression does not mean that the act is no longer aggression.
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No.103274
>>103238
>stealing is only wrong because bureaucrats wrote so in a piece of paper
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No.103276
>>103240
>he is not 'in the right'.
>Being 'strong' does not entitle one to goods
*bashes your head in*
*takes your shit*
Looks like im right, nerd.
>>103274
And because the police enforces it.
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No.103278
>>103276
>OOGA BOOGA, LOOKIT ME TYRONE I'M SO EDGY
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No.103281
>>103276
Notice that in your childish scenario you still had to actually take the goods from me. If you were entitled to them I would need to offer them to you as tribute or something.
That is to say, your statements are completely irrelevant to the thread's subject of the ethics of taxation. No one here is arguing that it is functionally impossible for large organizations to rob citizens.
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No.103317
>>103117
Free market where? I don't see such a thing anywhere. It's like a unicorn.
"Living in a country with taxes is completely voluntary" sure, if by voluntary you mean you have the option to suicide anytime you like.
Just accept the fact that the world is fully owned by oligarchs and the only agency you have in this life is to destroy as much of their system as you can before you escape this hellscape by dying.
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