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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: 6dccc58af61d032⋯.jpg (20.76 KB,480x360,4:3,hqdefault.jpg)

 No.101595

I would like to bring to your attention the direction in which the Monarchist/Neo-Reactionary movement is going: anti-capitalism. What's interesting here is that they criticize what they perceive as failures of capitalism from a coherently right-wing authoritarian position, rather than from typical Marxism.

The latest installment of this phenomenon is the rise of Carlylean Restorationist, who has been a very frequent and prolific blogger on Jim's and Spandrell's blogs (you don't have to know who these people are) before launching his own blog:

https://chromium.fashion.blog/

(It's not about fashion, kek)

What is interesting here is that he collects and articulates the anti-capitalist, pro-statist viewpoints of fellow Neo-Reactionaries, and does so in quite compelling a manner. So, at any rate, I'd suggest that some folks who browse this /liberty/ board look into CR's blog and see if they are convinced by what he's put forth.

____________________________
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 No.101600

Stop shilling this on every board you shitstain

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 No.101602

He's a retard. The entirety of his criticism is "hurr, capitalism=democracy because corporations are jointly owned," citing Jeffrey Tucker of all people in his eternal faggotry. Every "Tom Woodsite" worth his salt will be the first to tell you that the most appealing part of the market system is how anti-democratic it is–that it completely and utterly prevents the absolution of responsibility into the unthinking mass of mob rule. He also continually makes false assumptions, e.g. that capitalism presupposes the equality of man, when in fact it does the opposite of that: if men were equal, there would be no division of labor, and no need to trade. Markets exist precisely because men are not equal. His criticism of corporations has some surface-level validity, but is completely asinine when you realize that the only reason corporations are so widely proliferated in the current system is because of the various tax and legal advantages associated with being legally classified as a corporation. If this guy wants to be taken seriously, he should go after Hans-Hermann Hoppe, or someone else who agrees with him on almost everything but capitalism. Taking potshots at literal faggot communists like Jeffrey Tucker doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look too cowardly to go after a real target. TL;DR this guy's just another faggot who argues with his own straw men, what makes you think he's different from the rest?

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 No.101625

I thought moldbug was ancap, what happened?

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 No.101632

>>101595

let me guess

they dont like capitalism because it is not enough spiritual/religious?

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 No.101637

The Hoppe piece is here :P

https://chromium.fashion.blog/2019/04/25/hhhs-self-pwn/

Plenty of reasons to hate capitalism when every TV ad is black man white woman and Smirnoff vodka's pushing gender equality ratios.

Thank you very much to the original poster for pushing the blog here. Only been doing it two days and while I like the way it makes me crystallise thoughts that've been knocking around for a while, I'm not liking the 'Twitter effect' of checking for mentions etc. - feels kinda thirsty, so if I'm still being a dick a week from now, I'll probably pack it all in.

Anti-capitalism from the right is probably the most triggering thing on Earth right now, but I'm trying not to ONLY be a Striker/Enoch rip-off.

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 No.101639

>>101637

It is, but what system should replace it?

>>101602

I actually would debate Hoppe over this gladly. Anti-capitalism doesn't negate liberty at all.

>>101632

Jesus chased the merchants from his father's temple

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 No.101645

File: 33dd2934a3443d3⋯.jpeg (14.26 KB,166x255,166:255,molyneux start arguing.jpeg)

>>101639

>involuntary transactions can still be liberty

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 No.101652

File: 39fb6093c20b7ad⋯.jpg (39.92 KB,324x500,81:125,homosexual economics.jpg)

>>101637

>Plenty of reasons to hate capitalism when every TV ad is black man white woman and Smirnoff vodka's pushing gender equality ratios.

<plenty of reasons to hate capitalism for things encouraged through government subsidy

<plenty of reasons to hate capitalism for using public schools to push this

<plenty of reasons to hate capitalism for government rewarding this behavior through regulatory favoritism

You're a nigger with no understanding of cause and effect.

>Anti-capitalism from the right is probably the most triggering thing on Earth right now

Being a Nazbol isn't triggering, it's just pitiful.

>Hoppe piece

>lmao time preference don't real because a democrat balanced the budget once

This is a terrible example because Clinton literally balanced the budget by unloading a bunch of federal obligations onto the state budgets, without regard for the long-term consequences. It's the perfect example of high-time preference behavior. Whoever wrote this piece clearly knows nothing about the facts at hand except what he vaguely remembers from his high school civics class. His clunky way of interpreting these half-forgotten factoids–a bastardized version of correlation implying causation–suggests he has a room-temperature IQ.

>time-preference don't real because everyone dies lmao

This is self-refuting and doesn't bear a response.

>libertarians don't have agency, they just blame everything on the government

>also everything is capitalism's fault

I think reading this post made me more retarded.

You want to be anti-capitalist? Then I present an anti-capitalist proposition to you: by creating this blog, you have impoverished society and lowered the intelligence of everyone who reads this drivel, creating a negative externality. Kindly place yourself in the shoes of the benevolent social planner, and consider that your existence noticeably decreases the total utility of the economy. Therefore, in the name of the public good, the only reasonable course of action is for you to kill yourself.

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 No.101655

>>101645

You're likely more imprisoned under capitalism as it currently stands with the neoliberal approach to consumerism than anything resembling actual voluntary transactions but ok. There's always usury, having mass produced phones just to increase the chances of you buying another, for example making the product defunct after a few years just to pay for a hardware upgrade or in some cases a software upgrade (depending on how slimy the company is) to keep you depending on a system that never really makes you feel free but I'm reality you are not

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 No.101656

>>101652

>being Nazbol isn't triggering its just pitiful

Well if it warrants a mention a mention by someone so attached to capitalism, a capitalism that's far removed from its current state then it must bother you somehow

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 No.101657

>>101655

>You're likely more imprisoned under capitalism as it currently stands with the neoliberal approach to consumerism than anything resembling actual voluntary transactions but ok.

You mean the consumerist system which is reinforced through Keynesian low interest rates and gibs programs? The consumerism created by anti free-market policies? That consumerism?

>There's always usury

Imagine thinking that putting a price on a good is theft.

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 No.101658

>>101657

so you think jewish economics are cool then? fair enough.

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 No.101659

I love the south but come on now….

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 No.101661

one thing also I wanted to point out, taxation is theft to libertarians but usury isn't. its either both or none buddy.

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 No.101662

>>101658

What the fuck is "jewish economics" and how is it different from regular economics?

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 No.101663

File: 936085c8c1d2ba1⋯.jpg (32.92 KB,625x626,625:626,1510380593036.jpg)

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 No.101664

File: c6853803440ed57⋯.jpg (180.34 KB,517x768,517:768,superlative laugh.jpg)

>>101658

Let's pretend this non-argument of non-arguments has even an ounce of validity to it for a moment:

>Nazbols/NatSocs

>kvetching about Jewish involvement in someone else's economics

Pots really shouldn't call kettles niggers.

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 No.101668

>>101652

Look at all that butthurt

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 No.101671

>>101639

jesus was a schizophrenic

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 No.101672

>>101664

Rothbard and Friedmann were jews you mong.

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 No.101673

>>101671

That makes him even cooler

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 No.101684

File: 0663743de0dd155⋯.gif (369.99 KB,300x302,150:151,aving_a_giggle.gif)

>>101672

>he doesn't know what pots calling kettles niggers means

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 No.101718

>>101684

The only nigger here is you and your waifu is Shit

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 No.101719

wikipedia says NRx are pro-capitalist

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 No.101726

>>101719

Wikipedia also says big companies are pro-capitalist.

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 No.101769

>>101726

where?

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 No.101772

>>101637 So do you still adhere to austrian economic principles despite being anti capitalist now? And i remember reading somewhere once that you had respect for mises and rothbard, has that changed?

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 No.101786

I'm not active on these boards but a few things do warrant an answer so I'll try.

Obviously far from speaking for NRx, I'm largely hated in those circles. I'm not Nazbol but I definitely think people like Striker, Borzoi and Enoch are pretty spot on - 'third position' etc. etc.

Mises would be right, in my opinion, if all men were created equal. As it is, his way is the neoliberal way, and what we see around us (all of it) is real existing capitalism.

To the Hoppe piece, I'm certainly not saying time preference isn't real: it is. What I'm saying is that the argument Hoppe makes against democracy (lack of permanence/heirs makes elected leaders short-sighted and destructive) applies a fortiori to the joint stock corporation and laissez-faire capitalism in general.

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 No.101791

File: 4635409a5740d7c⋯.png (29.27 KB,640x480,4:3,le_third_pos.png)

>>101786

>Mises would be right, in my opinion, if all men were created equal.

That's objectively false. Praxeology and free market economics are predicated on the fact that men are not equal–if men were equal, there would be no division of labor.

>What I'm saying is that the argument Hoppe makes against democracy (lack of permanence/heirs makes elected leaders short-sighted and destructive) applies a fortiori to the joint stock corporation and laissez-faire capitalism in general.

That's very different from what your shit-tier blogpost said, in which you misrepresented Hoppe's point to the point of deception.

> applies a fortiori to the joint stock corporation and laissez-faire capitalism in general.

This is false. First because there's a very big difference between the specific construction of joint stock corporations and "laissez faire capitalism in general;" as has already been established corporations are much more proliferated than they would be in a free market due to various tax and legal incentives, were this not the case they would be less common. Second because there's a world of difference between democracy and how voting works in a corporation (the fact that buying more shares gives you more votes already makes the two incomparable), how consequences are felt within a corporation, and how profits are distributed within a corporation. Teh comparison is superficial at best, and belies a lack of comprehension in how corporations operate, how democracies operate, or both.

>I'm not a nazbol but I think nazbols are spot-on

That makes you nazbol, bud. You're just another attention-seeking tard who thinks his special snowflake twist on a tired trend is better than all the others that came before it.

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 No.101794

Ford/Truman era capitalism is much preferred to our current stste

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 No.105719

>>101595

>anti-capitalist

The neo-reactionaries fall for the rhetoric of their ideological enemies. Capitalism is a misnomer created by Marxists. The accumulation of capital has been with human society since practically the beginning. Definitely well before the industrial revolution. It is simply part of the natural way humans interact with each other. Many of these neo-reactionaries are really just tradcath monarchists that want distributionism to be the primary form of the economy, thinking somehow it will be more moral and just. Yet distributionism is just an ideal, they can never explain the transitory stage. Because to do so they would have to admit that they are pseudo-socialists and would have to redistribute land, making them in turn their own ideological enemies.

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 No.105724

>>101625

Last I heard he was shilling Yang. Acceleration sm or something idk.

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 No.105731

>>105719

Could someone explain distributionism and how it contrasts with free-market capitalism?

I've heard the term "distributism" once before, is that the same thing?

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 No.105732

File: 3371b370d8404bd⋯.jpeg (138.06 KB,444x640,111:160,77435268_7034_4425_8D63_D….jpeg)

I think this Albert Jay Nock quote is pretty relevant to this issue. We can all agree that modern Libertarianism has devolved into “small d” democrats appealing to mass democracy and feel-good politics. However our origins (Libertarianism from the Old Right) understood the dangers of mass-democracy and the mob. We are for the individual, not the sea of retards that wish majority rule to stamp out dissenters.

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 No.105736

>>105731

>distributionism

Just a typo. I am not Catholic and so I don't have the best grasp on it, but below is a link for an old article that Tom Woods wrote as a critique against distributism. As you probably know, Tom Woods is a tradcath as is Anthony Flood who is also against distributism. In my opinion, it seems rather shallow and more of an ideal to be placed upon the free-market. Distributism seems to assume that the free-market is inherently immoral and thus there must be some degree of control upon it to make it more moral. If businesses are limited to some degree of size like mom & pop stores and everyone gets some land to apply their labor for their own production, this makes it more just than letting the free-market unwind organically. I think it even advocates for trade unions or some form of return to the guild system. Distributists, as well as other critics of the supposed immorality of capitalism, always fail to point out exactly what stage in the growth of a business a moral business owner loses his morals and becomes a greedy immoral business owner.

https://mises.org/library/whats-wrong-distributism

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