/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

Yes it's extremely hard namely because the middle east is subverted to nonexistence and there's literally thrice the kafirs than believers working 9-5s while 15% of their soul is sucked away buy 🤬 governments puppeted by holding companies and the like.

They send forth a deed that vies for the life of this world as they struggle to sustain their couch and TV while we send forth a deed that earns a more lasting couch under the Sole Sovereign.

Vie not for the world like they do. It's easier than ever to live and earn for tomorrow's great pleasure but it's harder than ever to as a Muslim, one who withholds from ever closer fruit and ever deepening temptation and instead sends forth a deed for the last tomorrow in remembrance of Allah and actions thereupon.

It's actually very easy to be Muslim if you don't sit around whining about what someone else is doing. The problems you're having stem from you wanting the world to conform to you when, in fact, it's not your world. It belongs to Allah and Allah alone decides when and where and how things are done. Yes, you can improve yourself and your deen. Yes, you can even improve your community. But what you can't do is demand others cater to your special needs.

"There are gay people in the world! baww!" is meaningless. Does it stop you from praying daily? Does it stop you from giving alms? Is someone forcing you to eat pork and/or drink beer? Is a gay jewish woman holding a gun to your head and demanding you renounce Islam?

No? Then stop whining. Tend to your own self and your family. Lead by example. If your example is to whine, then all people will see is a whiner. When someone offers you a beer, don't say "That's haram! You need to stop your evil ways!". Instead say, "No, thank you. God forbids it." and say nothing else unless they ask questions. Lead by example, not by berating. The path of guidance and misguidance is clear and requires no explanation from you, an imperfect and sinful human, when God himself, creator of worlds and knower of all things, already said it perfectly. [2:256]

>>41148

It doesn't matter if it's forced upon us it's fitnah and in the time of Muhammad SAW revealing ones hair was damning and deplorable, imagine what's happening to our souls bearing witness to this nonsense and temptation.

Fitnah means roughly to invite to the fire and we're commanded to kill those who send it forth as far as I'm aware, not turn the other cheek.

>>41149

>we're commanded to kill

WRONG

LARPer be gone.

>>41149

>and we're commanded to kill those who send it forth as far as I'm aware

You're not aware

>>41154

>>41150

8:39

Yeah this verse paraphrased says to kill disbelievers who tempt muslims until everyone worships only Allah but I'll assume it doesn't mean what it says so my best friends in the west don't think I'm a meanie head and also me no likey fighting.

>>41155

>And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah

>And

What does it mean when a sentence begins with the word "and"? Well, in English it means that it's NOT the beginning of the sentence! Amazing, eh? Why don't you read all of 8 instead of focusing solely on 39? Too hard/inconvenient for you?

>>41156

Yeah it just gives a description of who disbelievers are, further tells us to withhold if they heed our warnings [AND] if not to kill them.

I'm sorry but fighting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you. Sit you at home like a woman while your brothers overseas are oppressed and molested while you reform your religion and deny Quran so that you're right in leaving them in the lurch.

We'll finish this on the day of judgement 📌

>>41144

>hundred years ago if we were asked why these rules were in place we would only be able to give the reason is 'because Allah said so'

FALSE, we had scholars that could explain if you asked

this era is the hardest, because we have no united ummah or caliph for us

>>41148

Theres something called الأمر بالمَعْرُوف والنَهي عن المُنْكَر

which is enjoining what is right and forbid what is reprehensible

anything thats haram we are supposed to hate it in our hearts and if we can call it out and if we can stop it with our hands

And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful. 3:104

I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say, “Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.” [Muslim]

what you are doing is the bear minimum, assuming you dislike what they do

>>41155

>>41157

Fitnah in the context of this verse refers to the persecution the Muslims were facing in this time in history.

> [8:30] And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners.

>[8:34] But why should Allah not punish them while they obstruct [people] from al-Masjid al- Haram and they were not [fit to be] its guardians? Its [true] guardians are not but the righteous, but most of them do not know.

Referencing how the non believers were persecuting the Muslims of the land, not allowing them to practice their religion, expelling them from their homes, plotting to kill Muhammad (SAW), so Allah says

>[8:39] And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

Fight them until there is no more persecution and oppression of Muslims.

If what you were implying were true, then it would contradict other verses in the Quran like

>[60:8] Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

>[60:9] Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

If you actually read the Surah from the beginning, or at least tried to look into the tafsir, you would know the historical context of this verse, the contextual meaning of fitnah, and the justifications, but you don't, which indicates one of three things

>1. You're a Muslim brother who has been misguided by extremist groups who have twisted the words of Allah and taken verses out of context to justify their agenda

>2. You're a Muslim brother who has been misguided by far right/anti-Islam political groups who have twisted the words of Allah and taken verses out of context to justify their agenda

>or 3. You're a LARPer

>>41160

You misunderstand what I was trying to say brother. With the rulings of Islam, theres things which Allah has given the reason for, and things which He hasn't and we can only guess what the wisdom behind it is. So yes true, there were scholars, but the best they could do is try to guess the wisdom behind it to explain why it was right to a non believer/someone looking into Islam. To a non believer this is not evidence, its a claim, a hypothesis, we didn't even have a degenerate society available for testing. Im saying that now we do, and have studies that have been done on them on a variety of topics that expose the negative effects of not following Allahs rulings. So now we have tangible evidence to back up the claims, and we can say we don't know for sure whether this is why Allah made his laws, but this could be the reason, and here is the evidence for this reasoning.

Why our Ummah is suffering ?

1. Because you don’t enjoin good and forbid evil.

2. Because you’re calling unity for the murders of the Ummah.

3. Because you’re sinning and our Ummah is sinning .

4. Because you don’t ponder upon Quran .

5. Because you forgot another form of Dawah.

6. Because you keep listening to clowns not real Scholars.

7. Because you love life more than death .

8. Because you’re giving affection to the enemies.

9. Because you listen to fake news .

10. Because you’re a coward without dignity.

11. Because you have the disease of nationalism.

12. Because you won't learn your religion.

13. Because you gave up jihad.

14. Because you are nor applying shariah.

15. Because you are satisfied with sitting and having fun.

16. Because you fear the punishment of the kafir more than Allah swt.

17. Because you want to mix western ideology with Islam.

>>41169

>Because you

Quick to point your finger at others, eh?

>>41170

you are part of the ummah no?

if u feel offended u are guilty

>>41163

I dont think he disagrees with that, also the biggest fitna is shirk

>>41163

"The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;"

[5:33]

Note: "Corruption in the land"

>>41174

That's not a license for you, personally, to go out and start chopping off the feet of people who offend you. I'm going to say this very clearly so that you understand it:

WE HAVE COURTS

>>41172

I'm not offended. I just found it amusing that you chose to say "You" instead of "We", like you are not also responsible.

>>41178

>You mean Western kufri taghuti system of justice.

Islam has courts. Where evidence is presented and witnesses are called. Guilt must be proven. Innocence is presumed. Just because the West copied our model doesn't mean they own it.

>>41144

Over time, it is getting harder to be Muslim.

Abu Huraira reported: The Prophet PBUH said, “Verily, you are in a time when one who leaves a tenth of what he has been commanded is ruined. Then, there will be a time when one who practices a tenth of what he has been commanded is saved.” [Tirmidhi 2267]

>>41180

Wasn't there a hadith where the Prophet (SAW) said the best of us will be the ummah in the future, who hasn't seen me but still believes, something like that?

>>41181

I believe that hadith was talking about the companions of the Madhi, since they will face all kinds of extreme hardships and trials.

Sayyiduna Abu Tha’labah Al Khushani RA reports that the Prophet PBUH said:

“….For verily ahead of you are such (difficult) days, staying steadfast on Din will be like holding onto burning cinders. Those that do good deeds in those days will receive the reward of fifty people who carry out deeds like you. ‘Abdullah ibn Mubarak RA further states (from another teacher), It was again asked, O Rasulullah! Will they receive the reward of fifty people like them or fifty of us? The Prophet PBUH replied: ‘Fifty of you’!” [Tirmidhi 3058]

In the times of the Sahaba and later generations committing sins was hard to do. They were living under Sharia, so fitna of all kinds of kept in check. If someone wanted to commit a sin they had to put forth effort to do it. Nowadays committing sins is so easy all you have to do is walk down the street or type a few words on a keyboard. You have to put forth effort not to fall into sin.

>>41175

>That's not a license for you, personally, to go out and start chopping off the feet of people who offend you

I dont think thats what hes saying, stop strawmanning others

>>41176

yeah i guess you're right

>>41182

indeed satan made it easy to sin, but hard to do halal

if you want zina, its one swipe away, if you want marriage you need to jump through a billion hoops to not get divorce raped

>>41183

It's not a strawman. There are those who actually use such verses to justify all manner of murder and mischief and then call the people who point out that God hates those who cause mischief "innovators". It's the sad reality we live in with the ummah scattered.

>>41182

I have to be honest here, I would rather it be hard to avoid sin. If you live in a society where it's impossible to sin, then what's the point? If a man holds a sword to your neck and demands you submit, then it's easy to submit. If you're given the freedom to sin and choose not to, then isn't the reward greater when you don't?

>>41184

Another reason I love this board. Not everything has to be a petty disagreement. We can speak to one another and find truth in the end. I just hope this board never dies. I know BO set up something on 9chan, but I don't know how viable that place really is and BO doesn't talk much.

>>41189

I speak now and then. I just don't use the capcode unless it's a matter of board policy or I want the statement to have board related impact. I am not a scholar nor am I an Imam. I have no authority in Islam. I am a sinner and imperfect and only hope that Allah's mercy finds me, though I lack.

As for 9chan, I set that up the instant Josh announced it because I know we always need alternatives. We have never truly been welcome in the image board community. 8chan was the first image board that actually allowed an /islan/ and Jim/Rom were more than happy to let us continue on 8kun. 9chan is a sort of bunker in case this place goes down again. It's not without its own problems, though.

Anyway, I try to keep my hands out of things as much as possible. This board isn't about me. I created this board so that you all may speak to one another and exchange ideas. My job isn't to police the board or guide it to my whims. Obviously I have to abide by the rules of the site that hosts us (nothing illegal in the US, etc) but, for the most part, I'm very hands off. I prefer to read and learn, rather than inject my personal "feels".

Oh, and I just wanted to say for the record:

>>41185 I actually tend to agree with this poor fellow, who often gets labeled a "wahabbist" in other threads. I don't follow the teachings of al-Wahab, myself, but I recognize the importance of returning the ummah to what we sometimes call the "Medina Way". Yes, I have my "liberal" side because I recognize the validity of all humans being Allah's creation and, thus deserving of dignity; but I also have my "conservative" side because I recognize ….

Well, I'm just going to stop now because that's not what this board is about. What I personally believe an feel isn't important. Please, continue to discuss and grow and learn.

>>41191

All al-Wahab did was turn people back to following the Quran and the Sunnah. If he didn't do what he did, there would still be 4 different prayer groups for each mathhab around the Kabba. It is better that all Muslims pray together. He stopped people from worshiping graves and shrines, and from following other ignorant innovations. If thinking that is a good thing makes me a "wahabbist", so be it. People that use the term "wahabbi" as a buzzword for calling people negative names don't know what they are talking about.

>>41188

The point is that fitnah is supposed to be avoided. This makes for a healthy society.

There would be less domestic violence, murders, car accidents, and other crimes if intoxicants were outlawed. There would be less temptation if women wore clothing that covered themselves. There would be less theft and rape if the Sharia punishments were enforced. Homelessness and poverty would not be that much of a problem if zakat was collected from everyone's wealth. People would have more savings and predatory lending practices would be non-existent if usury was outlawed. All of the Islamic legislation is designed to prevent sin and evil. Thinking that it is better to live in a sinful, unhealthy society because you might get more reward for avoiding all of the trash around you is missing the point. You don't take into account all of the easily committed little sins that are added to your scale because of your surroundings.

>>41191

Im that guy, and I think the term wahabi has been overused and abused, to the point where it has no meaning, anything disagreeing with you or seen as "too strict" can be wahabi. You might get called wahabi for having a beard, or praying fajr, or rejecting liberalism ect..

It's best for muslims to avoid labels, nobody should call themselves wahabi or anyone call someone names or labels like wahabi. If someone has studied abdul wahabs works, and has valid criticisms, he can post them, besides that its just a meaningless ad hominem.

O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers. 49:11

يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا يسخر قوم من قوم عسى أن يكونوا خيرا منهم ولا نساء من نساء عسى أن يكن خيرا منهن ولا تلمزوا أنفسكم ولا تنابزوا بالألقاب بئس الاسم الفسوق بعد الإيمان ومن لم يتب فأولئك هم الظالمون

>>41188

>>41193

This brother is correct, in principle you get more reward if you are patient, but in practice we must strive to establish a halal community where fitna can be avoided and halal is easily accessible for all.

>>41188

>If you're given the freedom to sin and choose not to, then isn't the reward greater when you don't?

If im not mistaken, this is why Allah said humans are the best of His creations, He already has angels that obey His every command, He gave humans free will so that despite them having the choice, many of them would still follow His commands.

>>41195

Its so sad and ridiculous too how these days being a practicing Muslim, or even simply praying 5 times a day gets you labelled as a conservative religious type.

>>41163

He (SWT) says we aren't forbidden from being kind to them. It doesn't mean we're forbidden from fighting them, and further iterates who we are forbidden from being kind to.

Seems blasphemous to imply we need context to understand the Quran because it would imply it's not perfect. What do you say to this?

>>41185

Satan didn't do that, he is weak and can't do anything. We did it ourselves.

>>41211

The demons among man and jinn.

>>41206

>It doesn't mean we're forbidden from fighting them

we ARE forbidden from fighting them UNLESS they attack us, then we defend ourselves and fight

>Seems blasphemous to imply we need context to understand the Quran because it would imply it's not perfect. What do you say to this?

The context is literally in the Quran, just a few verses before the one you cited (I just explained this).

As Muslims we know that the Quran doesn't explain everything, only explains everything you need to know to guide you, does this mean its not perfect? No of course not. The Quran is NOT a science book or a history book, even though it talks about science and history, if it was it could have been an endless book, its the literal word of Allah (SWT), a guide for humanity. As Muslims we also acknowledge the teachings of the Prophet (SAW) in the Hadith, even though there are fabrications, without it we would not know many things like how to pray, unless you're part of these other branches like Quranists who reject hadith.

The Quran has been revealed in a way so that any able minded person can understand its message if they read it properly, yet it can still bring about some of the most complex philosophical discussions of all time. Scholars agree that there are verses that are for taking its literal meaning, and those that are not so literal that never had an intention of full explanation, and scholars can determine which verses are which. Like for verses with clear messages in Quran you'll often find those themes repeated, like for the one you cited we know the context is when they were attacked, then theres the other verse I quoted about acting justly to everyone even non muslims unless they fight you, then theres the other verse that say that if you kill an innocent its as if you killed all of humanity, the theme is common so just citing one verse to justify your acts is wrong. This is how Tafsirs are written too, using other parts of the Quran to establish what the meaning is, the Quran still takes precedence over any other words, but also add in commentary from hadith to give more insight, written by scholars who spent their whole lives studying the Quran and Islam, because not everyone is going to read the Quran in one sitting, or have every verse memorized to cross reference the verse they're reading at the moment, not everyone is going to even read the whole Quran, or some people like you that may only read the one verse.

Anyway, I hope your Eid went well, Alhamdulillah

>>41226

>we ARE forbidden from fighting them UNLESS they attack us, then we defend ourselves and fight

That's only for defensive jihad, which is what he's arguing I think, given that muslims are being fought.

Once you have enough strength you must do offensive jihad to eliminate shirk on earth like the prophet Sulayman did (pbuh)

We can see he pbuh actually sends birds to bring him news, hes seeking out the idolaters, he was not isolationist, he did not respect their sun worship, but told them to cease and submit to Islam and him, as the caliph of Allah swt on earth it was his right. Moderists would call him a terrorist if he pbuh lived today.

Surah Al naml 27:20-37

And he took attendance of the birds and said, "Why do I not see the hoopoe - or is he among the absent?

I will surely punish him with a severe punishment or slaughter him unless he brings me clear authorization."

But the hoopoe stayed not long and said, "I have encompassed [in knowledge] that which you have not encompassed, and I have come to you from Sheba with certain news.

Indeed, I found [there] a woman ruling them, and she has been given of all things, and she has a great throne.

I found her and her people prostrating to the sun instead of Allah, and Satan has made their deeds pleasing to them and averted them from [His] way, so they are not guided,

[And] so they do not prostrate to Allah, who brings forth what is hidden within the heavens and the earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare -

Allah - there is no deity except Him, Lord of the Great Throne."

[Solomon] said, "We will see whether you were truthful or were of the liars.

Take this letter of mine and deliver it to them. Then leave them and see what [answer] they will return."

She said, "O eminent ones, indeed, to me has been delivered a noble letter.

Indeed, it is from Solomon, and indeed, it reads: 'In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful,

Be not haughty with me but come to me in submission [as Muslims].' "

They said, "We are men of strength and of great military might, but the command is yours, so see what you will command."

She said, "Indeed kings - when they enter a city, they ruin it and render the honored of its people humbled. And thus do they do.

But indeed, I will send to them a gift and see with what [reply] the messengers will return."

So when they came to Solomon, he said, "Do you provide me with wealth? But what Allah has given me is better than what He has given you. Rather, it is you who rejoice in your gift.

Return to them, for we will surely come to them with soldiers that they will be powerless to encounter, and we will surely expel them therefrom in humiliation, and they will be debased."

>>41264

>and then there will be Khilafah upon the Prophetic method

Conquering roma is soon inshAllah. I want to participate when we invade the kuffar.

>>42810

Are you saying that >>41175 is literally BO? Where's your proof?

Or are you saying the post in your pic is literally BO? Because that's 2 separate posts, only one of which is obviously the BO.

>>42812

The first post is someone lashing out and saying something nonsensical while others were trying to engage in a rational argument using reason, the second post is the BO shutting it down because the first poster and his supporter were losing the argument.

>>42813

I really doubt that's why BO shut it down. Looks to me like he shut it down because it was getting out of hand. Also, BO has always been very inclusive. I fail to see anything wrong with what BO said. I also don't know what you hope to accomplish. It's not like we can vote him out or anything and there's really nowhere else to go except places like reddit and facebook.

>>42816

What does that image have to do with BO?

>>42817

We know that about BO. Well, anyone who's been here more than a month knows that. It's not like anyone can do anything about it, so why spam up this thread with it?

>>42814

It wasn't getting out of hand with people telling Undyne that he wasn't welcome or anything similar to that. It was quoting hadith and showing evidence of the ramifications and regret that transgender people undergo when going through with an operation. The other side couldn't deal with the evidence, so they began to scream in red text.

>>42818

It is harder to be a Muslim on /islam/ because you can't even tell a transgender person hadith saying that what they are doing is wrong. You aren't allowed to talk about it. That makes forbidding the evil more difficult. We are supposed to act like it is normal behavior.

>>42818

>why spam up this thread with it?

It's what they do. They demand to be able to bleat nonsense repeatedly until everyone who disagrees with them runs away in frustration, then they claim victory.

>>42819

The conversation is still on the board. Undyne was not made to feel welcomed and was, in fact, told to gtfo and that she could never be Muslim. Further, it had gotten WAY off OP's original topic and, thus, it was already over. THAT is why I ended it.

>>42820

Telling someone a hadith is one thing. Constantly repeating it over and over again is called "spam". Say something once and, if they don't listen, shake the dust off and move on. You are not permitted to browbeat anyone.

>>42819

>they began to scream in red text

Those people were given bans. The others were not. The thread was locked, but not deleted.

Now, if you're going to turn this thread into another "i haet trantrans" spamfest, I will lock it too. If you try to do it to every thread, I can - and will - delete every thread on this board. I can shut off posting completely in order to stop spammers. Do not test me. If you want to hate people, then go to /christian/. All they do is hate.

>>42821

Link to the post where Undyne was told to gtfo and that he could never be Muslim. Nothing close was said anywhere in that thread. All people were trying to do was convince her not to take hormones as they mess with your mind >>41715 and that undergoing transgender surgery is an action that many people regret.

You have the say of what goes on this board, but you are making a complete blatant lie when you say that Undyne was told to gtfo and could never be Muslim.

Transgender people are Muslim, but the important thing is to recognize that what they are doing is haram. If you say it is okay, you have crossed the line, no matter how many 'scholars' you can get to back up that opinion.

I am done with my part of this conversation, so there is no need to block the thread or take other actions.