/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>31141

>learn from the bible

Wrong board, kid.

>>31141

>Learn from those who teach you.

Respect those who would teach you.

Maybe you should read the Quran. The Prophet Muhammad PBUH was sent to teach you.

>Not trying to get just what you want, be calm, at rest, focus on other things, what God is like, what he would want.

Only in Islam is there a complete and detailed description of God’s attributes. Jesus is not God, he is a person and a Messenger. God wants you to repent from your disbelief and follow the original religion that was revealed to all the Prophets throughout all of time.

Saying that you are “saved” and now everything you do doesn’t really matter that much because somehow believing that Jesus is God is all that is required from you, is misguided.

>learn from the bible.

ok, let's all post some lessons from the bible. I'll start:

>Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house– she who has taught me (how to be a slut?). I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's wet!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me.

hmm yes so profound. Now I know to have sex with my sister so as to not arouse suspicious of fornication, thanks bible.

>If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

another immensely profound lesson, now I know to stone to death a woman unless she can provide a bloody bed-sheet. Thanks again bible.

>>31170

>>31170

wew lad

>>31180

>The traditional reading is that it's about spiritual communion, not something carnal.

Except it describes carnal desires in detail.

>You forgot the next sentence:

I didn't, you're just missing the point: the wife is guilty until proven innocent by displaying her bloody bedsheet, or else she'll get stoned to death.

>In Islam we see a similar ruling:

nope we don't, since in Islam people are innocent until proven guilty, and we don't demand bloody bedsheet or else kill people.

>>31182

>carnal desires in detail

What specifically troubles you about it? The idea of kissing and embracing one you love? Humans are physical beings not simply spirits, so showing affection through physical expressions is normal. And the reference to the babe at her mother's breast is totally innocent.

>the bedsheet, guilty until proven innocent

The point is that an examination of the evidence is required, if an accusation was sufficient to prove she was guilty there would be no need for a trial and all evidence to the contrary would be ignored as inauthentic. But the word of the accuser is not sufficient, since it can be contradicted and disproved.

>>31185

>What specifically troubles you about it?

The explicit incest fantasy part as well as christian hypocrisy.

>But the word of the accuser is not sufficient, since it can be contradicted and disproved.

Actually the word is sufficient because she'll get stoned to death if she can not disprove his accusation, ie she's guilty until proven innocent(through the absurd means of providing a bloody bedsheet). Compare this with Islam where a woman is innocent until proven guilty, if there's just word against word then she's not punished(as opposed to the bible where the man's testimony weighs higher and will lead to the death of the wife by itself). Now imagine how many innocent women would be stoned to death if christians or jews actually put into practice what they claim to be God's revelation.

>>31186

>The explicit incest fantasy part

Sexual intercourse isn't implied, her love is sisterly. I kiss my sister and hug her and give her gifts. Is that incest?

>as well as christian hypocrisy.

where?

>Actually the word is sufficient because she'll get stoned to death if she can not disprove his accusation

I'll concede that if the words are taken at face value, the letter of the law can be misused as you describe, by lazy judges, but I think a wise judge would use the the verses of Deuteronomy as directions, as guides, not as shackles to be bound by like a robot, because there are always exceptions and different circumstances to crimes. The verses aren't exhaustive and meant to encompass every possibility or give every criteria of evidence and so forth.

Also notice Deut 22:20 says "But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman…"

The condition is that "if the thing is true" AND evidences to the contrary aren't found then she should be stoned. A wise judge would ask the accuser to establish the truth of his accusations in a way that can be corroborated. A lazy judge might not.

>>31187

>Sexual intercourse isn't implied

yes it is otherwise there'd be no need to worry what the public would say.

>her love is sisterly.

No, the love is sexual which is why she wish they were siblings so they could have sex at home without anyone finding out.

>but I think a wise judge

You mean someone who obviously rejects this nonsense as being the law of God.

>AND evidences to the contrary aren't found then she should be stoned.

You're now ignoring the earlier verses that clearly lay out what that evidence of virginity is: namely the blood bedsheet. The wife's testimony is worth 0. She will get stoned to death unless she can prove to not be guilty because the law of the bible is: guilty until proven innocent(at least for women).

You obviously disagree with the bible and can not accept that it's the word of God, you just refuse to admit it because christians would then be exposed as believing God's message was corrupted, but it wasn't because God revealed the Quran to make the truth clear from your falsehoods:

>"We have revealed the Quran to you so that you could tell the people what has been revealed to them and so that perhaps they will think." 16:44

So you need to take a lesson from the Quran and stop believing God ordered you to murder innocent women without evidence.

Do we really need another "Islam v Christianity" thread?

>>31188

> it because christians would then be exposed as believing God's message was corrupted, but it wasn't because God revealed the Quran to make the truth clear from your falsehoods:

If God's word wasn't corrupted why would there need to be a Quran? In your view God's word was corrupted, over and over and over again.

How can God judge people fairly if for centuries all they have is a corrupted revelation. They have to wait and die until a new revelation appears hundreds of years later to correct the corruption? How does that work, and how is that fair?

>>31190

If you're gonna try to deflect from the topic then at least make sure it's not with something that would apply first of all to christianity.

>if the christians hadn't corrupted their faith why did the nicene creed have to be formulated

>if the NT is enough why did the nicene creed have to be formulated

>if the torah was wrong why did it need the update

>if the torah was enough why did jesus have to die

>if the torah was enough to have a personal relation with God why was the trinity required to be revealed

>How can God judge people fairly if for centuries they were living in Adam's sin, they have to die until god decided to die also some point in the future by the hands of jews

>>31193

>why nicene creed?

Nicene creed summarized what was already being taught and believed by Christians for hundreds of years, it was a way to distinguish between believers and heretics. Whatever corruption existed was only at the fringes, it was not a fundamental corruption of their scriptures that required a new revelation to correct.

>if the torah was wrong why did it need the update

>if the torah was enough why did jesus have to die

the torah was a precondition for Christ.

it was always meant to be fulfilled and finalized by the messiah.

>>if the torah was enough to have a personal relation with God why was the trinity required to be revealed

nothing is required, God does as he pleases and he blessed man with more of the truth

>>How can God judge people fairly if for centuries they were living in Adam's sin, they have to die until god decided to die also some point in the future by the hands of jews

All who have faith and were righteous would be saved eventually. The harrowing of hell was part of the plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell

Christianity continues off of the Torah, there is never a moment where Gods word on earth becomes fundamentally corrupt beyond recognition, beyond its ability to save, and a new prophet has to come to replace the old revelation completely.This is the case with your beliefs, how do you justify this with a fair God and an omnipotent God who seeks to preserve his word? Why send prophets if you're going to let their revelation get corrupted shortly after their appearance?

>>31197

>non-trinis were fringe groups

blatantly false. The "heretics" were all christians as well with large numbers of followers that just had corrupted views, so according to your world-image, the church had to be divinely inspired to set things right after christians had been wrong and in confusion about Jesus for four centuries.

>the torah was a precondition for Christ.

that didn't answer the question

>nothing is required

then anyone can say the same and your deflection attempt fails

>All who have faith and were righteous would be saved eventually.

same as above

>more standardized christian non-answers that don't address anything

yawn.

>Why send prophets if you're going to let their revelation get corrupted shortly after their appearance?

You still haven't answered me that, see above.

And the early christians had hundreds of different gospels all saying completely different things. Christians believe God had to send divinely inspired church leaders to correct the corruptions and say which is the true bible and which is not after centuries. And in fact even to this day christians can't agree on what the bible actually contains.

>>31198

>>the torah was a precondition for Christ.

>>that didn't answer the question

the question is based on a false assumption that any update comes to correct an error. An update can further clarify something that is true, an update can complete something that was waiting to be completed. For example the animal sacrifices of the jews were a prefiguration of the actual sacrifice of Christ. Once the work of the cross was complete, animal sacrifice became superfluous. It was never "wrong" or a lie or a corruption, it played the role it had to play.

>then anyone can say the same and your deflection attempt fails

you misunderstand the nature of God's expression/revelation if you think he is "required" to reveal anything to us, again your questions are just poorly formed, so the answers you get are unsatisfactory to you.

>>more standardized christian non-answers that don't address anything

>yawn

You asked what happened to the people prior to Christ that came after Adam, I gave you the biblical answer. The harrowing of hell. Christ preached the gospel even in the underworld. They were not in the lake of fire, they were in the underworld, a spiritual prison of some sort. So that's what happened to them.

Is this option available to all the people who died before Muhammad who were duped by a corrupted revelation, because the unitarian scriptures became lost and corrupted and hidden? You didn't answer anything. It's one reason I would never become muslim and I've never had a satisfactory answer to this.

How could God allow his revelations to become fundamentally corrupted, unsalvific, for hundreds of years before sending a new prophet to correct them? Because most of you think Paul was the first to corrupt the scriptures, and that happened very early on.

>>31201

You're still just parroting irrelevant nonsense and not addressing any of my points. Answer me why you say that God allowed the gospel to be corrupted and likewise the trinity for centuries until the divinely inspired church corrected it?

>>31202

You keep hand-waving my answers away without explaining how they are irrelevant or "nonsensical", I don't know what you want if you keep making vague accusations. I give you specific answers and you just shrug your shoulders and deny them with no explanation.

>Answer me why you say that God allowed the gospel to be corrupted and likewise the trinity for centuries until the divinely inspired church corrected it?

you should post this in the christian thread. Otherwise this conversation will get deleted very soon by the mods. The short answer is that people misinterpreting the scriptures and spreading false doctrines is not the same as the scriptures themselves being corrupt. The Church did not "correct" scriptures, but correct people's misunderstanding of it by formulating a simple creed that is easy to memorize, and it's grounded in scripture itself anyway.

>>31203

>you should post this in the christian thread

So you pose a problem to me that you can not even answer yourself?

>that people misinterpreting the scriptures and spreading false doctrines is not the same as the scriptures themselves being corrupt.

Then what does it mean for scriptures to be corrupt? You're just making up stuff as you go along. We say that corruption means: some people lied and said this was revelation when it wasn't. You say: some people lied and said this was revelation(from Jesus) when it wasn't. So there's no difference.

So after all this time the idolator still has not answered any of my question:

Why did God allow christians to be duped by false gospels and false creeds for 2000+ years and still counting?

Why did God order women to be stoned to death unless they can display a bloody bedsheet from their wedding night?

Why does the bible contain incest porn?

>>31180

yeah.. umm very "spiritual"

>>31189

if stick enthusiasts start proselytizing bans will be handed out until they turn back into the containment thread

>>31206

>Why did God allow christians to be duped by false gospels and false creeds for 2000+ years and still counting?

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

>Why did God order women to be stoned to death unless they can display a bloody bedsheet from their wedding night?

In that instance she was actually guilty, if you read the whole verse.

>Why does the bible contain incest porn?

Because your mind sees what it wishes to see.