/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>he wasn't crucifed by the Jews when there is so much evidence to the contrary.

Except there really isn't:

https://primaquran.wordpress.com/2018/04/14/the-greatest-cover-up-in-church-history-refutation-of-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/

>>30521

I think Muslims have actually interpreted the meaning of the Quran incorrectly. Because it is an evident prophecy in Psalms that the seed of David would come and be persecuted by men

When I read the bible. What it seems to do is affix the blame of the crucifixion on the masses who were chanting for him to be crucified

(Matthew 27:21-25)

“Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.

“Barabbas,” they answered.

“What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

They all answered, “Crucify him!”

“Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

And this is how Paul weaved the concept of original sin into Christianity.

When the Qurán says "they crucified him not, nor killed him", it is saying that it was not the fault of the people that Jesus would be nailed to the cross, but rather the fault of Herod and the Jews. This is also evident in the Apocryphal Gospel of Peter that was intentionally left out of the Bible.

(GoP 1-2)

… but of the Jews no man washed his hands, neither Herod

nor any one of his judges; and as they were not minded to wash,

Pilate rose. And then Herod the King commandeth the Lord

to be taken, saying unto them: “Whatsoever I commanded that

ye should do, that do unto him.”

Another thing I noticed in the Gospel of Peter is that the incredibly detailed crucifixion scenario never states that Jesus died, rather that he was "taken up", or potentially saved by god.

He also uses the phrase "my power, my power why has thou forsaken me?", rather than the phrase "my god, my god why has thou forsaken me?" which is in three of the canonical gospels that refers to Jesus himself being the incarnation of god. (which was probabally an edit by the church)

(GoP 16-19)

And one of themsaid: “Give him to drink gall with vinegar;” and having mixed,

they gave him to drink. And they fulfilled all things and

completed their sins upon their own head. Now many went

about with lights, thinking that it was night, and some fell.

And the Lord cried aloud, saying; “Power, my Power, thou hast

forsaken me!” and having spoken, he was taken up.

I believe that the "power" that Jesus refers to in this gospel is the power that was granted to him by Allah through the Holy Spirit. And then Allah saved him and took up his spirit. They then buried the body of Jesus, who never actually "died" per se, but it looked like it did to the people watching. Allah then returns the spirit of Jesus to his body to ressurect him, making it look to the people that he was killed and resurrected.

Tbh it seems crazy but I think that the remains of this Apocraphal Gospel is closer to the truth than any other of the Canonical Gospels. See: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/37494/37494-pdf.pdf

I"ve thought about this a lot. My personal belief has been that it was Judas who was crucified. Even in the bible it talks about how 'those killed on trees are cursed" and Judas saying why has God forsaken me while dying. The gospel of Judas backs this up a bit. The nicene council and Mushrikeen councils were for power and rewrote history. It was even Jewish prophecy that their messiah would not suffer. Thats why the Jews rejected Jesus, they wanted to kill him to prove he was no messiah because tbh he was a pretty strightforward guy to them and told them how it is and they got offended. Allah saved Jesus, which still fulfilled the prophecy. Jews are forever cursed for trying to kill their messiah and breaking the covenant.

This is just my personal belief and may Allah forgive me, but do not take my words for fact, I'm sure there's other possiblities. But at the end of the day, God knows best.

>>30524

I kind of agree that Judas being crucified would make sense, but the Gospel of Judas is mostly Gnostic.

They tried this idea in the Gospel of Barnabas too but that one is an obvious forgery.

>>30519

>>30521

if all you have is opinions and speculation you'll never really find true religion.

Luke 13

31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, "Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you."

32 He replied, "Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'

33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day–for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!

34 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Matthew 26:39

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

And the prayers of the prophets are always answered, God saved him from the kuffar.

الله أكبر الله أكبر

لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله

Welcome to tawhid my brother in Islam.

>>30550

It seems logical, but who then did they crucify?

>>30564

In my opinion, possibly Barabbas, who got switched with Jesus. Since they had the same name.

>>30567

Man I never even realised Barabbas was originally named Jesus, and that Barabbas literally means Son of the Father

Has this seriously just gone unnoticed as a coincidence?

>>30573

What's weird is that Isa is not a translation of Jesus's Aramaic name. It's a transliteration of the Greek translation.

>>30576

It's the arabic version of yeshu3.

>>30573

Some bible scholars actually suggest that he was confused with Barabbas and left to go free. Then muslims would say he got risen up to heaven to be saved. This theory makes sense and fits with the islamic view.

Yes, both were called "Jesus Barabbas" (Matthew 27:16-17). Barabbas (/bəˈræbəs/; Aramaic: ישוע בר אבא‎ Bar ʾAbbaʾ, literally "son of the father"). The first Jesus Barabba was a Jewish revolutionist who killed Roman soldiers to free his people. The second one is our Jesus Christ. Both had no known biological fathers.

In the Middle East, if a person's father is unknown, they call him "son of his/your father". This title is also used for great warriors and great achievers. Such heroes would be called by the people: "You are indeed the son of your father!", since the hero is his father's seed. Bastards are also called that (son of your/his father), and not "bastard", to not immediately sound insulting to them.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/which_jesus_released_and_which_crucified.htm

>>30582

>It's the arabic version of yeshu3.

Yeshu? Yeshua was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshua" – Joshua)

The word for Jesus in Arabic is Yasu or Yusha (Joshua) not "Isa". Yeshua/Joshua like the prophet after Moses. Isa is a mis-heard, mis translation of the Greek for Jesus which Is Iesous,which found its way into the Quran. Which begs the question why is a non Arabic word in a book revealed in Arabic?

>>30584

It's a hell of a lot more complicated than that. There is no "gotcha!" here.

>>30523

I'm a convert too, and I feel very similar to you. Honestly very difficult for me to believe that Jesus (pbuh) was not crucified and resurrected.

>>30550

But are the prayers of prophets always answered? Did the Prophet of Allah (pbuh) not pray for his uncle Abu Lahab?

>>30584

>Isa is a mis-heard, mis translation of the Greek for Jesus which Is Iesous

not even close… its just the arabic name of Jesus (as) they dont need to sound the same

>>30589

the quran says he wasnt

>>30590

Abu Lahab was cursed in the quran, a whole surah for him. There was no saving him.

I have been thinking about this for a few days and it all makes sense now.

Jesus Barabbas was a Jewish terrorist who the Jews wanted to be released. Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah who the Jews feared because they thought he was there to overthrow the law rather than to fulfill the law.

Pilate isn't an idiot. Even in the current Bible it specifies that Pilate was reluctant to crucify Christ, he knew that Christ was innocent and that Barabbas was a criminal.

Of course he would have followed the law and crucified Barabbas. He just made it seem to the Jews that he was crucifying Christ, and thus started Christianity.

God saved Jesus from crucifixon through Pilate doing what he knew was right, rather than what the Synagogue of Satan commanded of him.

Now I can reject Christianity for good. Praise Allah for showing the straight path

>>30654

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpSHN1cFZYI

Solid theory, vid related, Dr Jerald Dirks masters in divinity from harvard, had access to the earliest manuscripts and concluded the same with barabbas

>>30669

According to historian Max Dimont, the story of Barabbas as related in the gospels lacks credibility from the Roman standpoint, as it presents the Roman authority, Pontius Pilate, backed by overwhelming military might, being cowed by a small crowd of unarmed civilians into releasing a prisoner condemned to death for insurrection against the Roman Empire. A Roman governor who had done that could have faced execution himself.

Historical scholar Benjamin Urrutia contends that Rabbi Yeshua Bar Abba (Barabbas) was the historical Jesus of Nazareth and was the leader of the successful nonviolent Jewish resistance to Pilate's attempt to place Roman eagles – symbols of the worship of Jupiter – on Jerusalem's Temple Mount. Josephus, who relates this episode, does not say who the leader of this resistance was, but shortly afterwards states that Pontius Pilate had Jesus crucified. (Many scholars believe this passage of Josephus may have been slightly but significantly altered by later editors.)

>>30669

Its a Larping Christian.

Probabally West Orthodox too.

>>30669

Imagine thinking that the Holy Spirit dosen't guide people in their thoughts.

Or that the bible is immune from being altered

>>30673

JESUS WAS NEVER SUPPOSET TO TAKE HIS FATHERS THRONE FFS, HE WAS SUPPOSED TO SIT AT ITS RIGHT HAND

REEEEEEE how come all my life I never realised how stupid Christianity was

It literally replaces God with Jesus. Idoltery at it's finest

>>30673

barabbas wanted a rebellion tho.. and letting him go would put pilate at risk at being executed for freeing a terrorist

theres no reason why he would let the anti roman rebel go free, and crucify an innocent man, which he himself was hesitant to kill, neither did barabas have any roman rights, he was also under occupied land

basically, someone DID get crucified, but the one released was the actual Jesus (as) then he ascended into heaven

>>30519

>Everything was lies, written in the bible to socially engineer society into western degeneracy by St Paul.

give some examples?

>>30744

Read the Quran and stop being a bitch about the Ethnicity of the Man who wrote it.

>>30746

I have. But that's not what I was asking…can you answer the question?

>>30748

If you don't know the answer then you haven't read the Qur'an.

You just looked at the words

>>30752

The issue is I can't read your mind (yet), so I don't know what points you're referring to in regards to Paul's morality versus the Quran.

Or do you just mean the obvious things like circumcision and divinity of Christ? Cause I can't think of any immoral things Paul taught.

>>30755

The Quran was written by God Muhummad. You have to read it as it is the divine truth.

If you read it and try and compare it to manmade scriptures

(letters of Paul and other new testament books that are good for nothing but toilet paper)

I cannot debate you because I have found God. It is impossible for me to convince you because I can only interpret the Quran subjectively.

Only through the Quran can you be convinced

>>30744

paul was literally a terrorist who killed true christians, canceled judaic law and mixed roman festivals to appease the pagans

>>30519

Oh look, a heretic. You're going to hell anon. Repent.

>>30786

Yes, Paul was an evil Pharisaic terrorist who spent years ministering in the Church, going on numerous missionary journeys, abandoning almost all aspects of his past life and forfeiting all of his honor and high position in Judaism, actually getting stoned by his persecutors, getting shipwrecked, undergoing many more persecutions, getting run out of towns, and finally being imprisoned in Rome for 2 years and then being martyred for his message, all to sabotage Christianity with pagan ideals so he can further Pharisaic Judaism. Yes, the logic here is so perfect!

Seriously, are Muslims this low IQ?

>>30819

Oh look, a mushrik. You're going to hell anon. Repent.

>>30821

>paul claims Jesus appeared to him

>somehow this is proof

???

>Paul claims he saw

Did Muhammad even know who strangled him in the cave or did some other guy have to tell him? Can't recall

>>30819

>Youre not christian so youre going to hell

One of the final straws of conversion for me was the realisation that Muslims beleieve that Good Christians will still be let into heaven. Christianity teaches people to believe that all non-christians will be sent to hell even if they are good people

>>30821

>no one in any other religion ever suffered hardship other than made up bs attributed to saul

literal retard mushrik made braindead by the 3-1 body wash doctrine. Just die and go to hell already.

>>30821

The "heretics" your christian church persecuted for trying to "corrupt" christianity all suffered more than that anyway so you have no argument.

>>30825

>Muhammad claims Gabriel appeared to him

>somehow this is proof

???

>>30854

>Muslims believe that Good Christians will still be let into heaven.

See >>30855 and >>30825

>>30861

>Paul claims jesus is son of God

>Somehow this is proof?

>>30863

That's the point I'm trying to make. Literally anyone can make the same solipsistic non-argument but by substituting the people involved.

>>30861

>>30851

Yes this is interesting. Paul realized it was Christ speaking to him. Muhammad was told it was Gabriel by his wife's cousin, because his experience baffled him, and his wife's cousin was familiar with Jewish and Christian scriptures. So…

"Perplexed by this new experience, Muhammad made his way to home where he was consoled by his wife Khadijah, who also took him to her Ebionite cousin Waraqah ibn Nawfal. Waraqah was familiar with Jewish and Christian scriptures. Islamic tradition holds that Waraqah, upon hearing the description, testified to Muhammad's prophethood,[1][page needed][8] and convinced Muhammad that the revelation was from God."

Waraqah said: "O my nephew! What did you see?" When Muhammad told him what had happened to him, Waraqah replied: "This is Namus (meaning Gabriel) that Allah sent to Moses."

>>30864

the fact that you cant tell the difference between the Quran and a regular piece of literature is the reason you don't understand it

>>30858

Stop spamming /christian/ with this, lol. I don't think the BO here would appreciate his board being spammed with memes about Muhammad or Islam.

>>30871

I didnt spam it. I made a thread. You deleted it because you know you cant refute it..

As the servants of satans do

If you came to this board posting memes with actual discussion questions I am sure the BO wouldn't mind

>>30873

Calling people "christcucks" is not a valid discussion question m8

May Christ forgive you.

>>30875

May God forgive You

>>30870

>the fact that you cant tell the difference between the Quran and a regular piece of literature is the reason you don't understand it

The fact that you already make such a distinction proves your inherent bias. Someone could argue that the Quran is just "a regular piece of literature".

>>30877

No.

If you tell any scholar/historian that the Quran is just a "regular piece of literature" they would laugh their ass off

>>30871

Except that it's an argument not a meme or insult against Jesus (as). We don't raid like you mushriks.

>>30904

>>30906

>>30907

Give me 1 single reason why I should listen to paul, who came decades after Jesus and changed biblical law?

>>30904

It seems in your religion satan can do anything, including making ppl see jesus in oatmeal or in the bathtub.

>>30904

>>30906

Your whole argument relies on John, it's not a reliable gospel, scholars say the synoptic ones are more reliable, mark being the most reliable of the 3 synoptic ones. So your entire premise falls apart.

>>30907

Yes, and we killed them like the killing of dogs!

>>30914

Give us one reason why we should listen to Muhammad, who came centuries after Jesus

>>30938

Because he didn't change the law and was supported by Jesus (as). Also God preferred Islam to conquer the holy lands, the patriarchates and even the 7 churches over the filthy polytheist christians.

By the way. If we need anymore proof for the Barabbas theory.

Barabbas is literally an Aramaic word in itself. Even if the terrorist Jesus was actually named "Son of the Father" there is no reason AT ALL why the Aramaic word "Barabbas" should have been left in the bible after it's translation. When it's English translation is literally "Son of the Father".

At this point I am going to assume all christians either:

>Refuse to read the Quran

>Read the Quran but refuse to believe Muhummad was a prophet

And this is how their hearts are sealed

"Maccoby identifies Paul of Tarsus for this shifting of blame in The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention Of Christianity, which explains extensively why it was necessary to appease Roman sentiment prior to Constantine I's Edict of Milan (Edict of Tolerance) in 313, which legalized Christianity.

The appeasing of Roman sentiment was, Maccoby suggests, confined to the matters of the blame for Crucifixion and over Jesus' "true" mission in life. Maccoby argues that Jesus was an anti-Roman revolutionary and that Paul, who had never met Jesus during his life-time, disagreed strongly with Jesus' actual followers over what Jesus' mission was.

In his role of Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul absolved Rome of any blame for the crucifixion so that new Roman converts could more easily accept the miracle of Jesus' resurrection with no guilt for the murder that made it possible. For a Roman convert to accept that Jesus was the messiah he would also be accepting that Rome killed God's only son - so Paul shifted the blame on to the Jews, and the Barabbas/Pilate story and, more famously, the Judas myth, were used as blame shifting tactics to get new recruits to Paul's newly formed religion."

>>30584

>The word for Jesus in Arabic is Yasu or Yusha

Um according to ancient christian scholars no.

“Also, the classical theologians Clement of Alexandria and Cyril of Jerusalem both stated that the Greek name Iesous was allegedly Jesus' original name itself and that the name was not a transliteration of a Hebrew form.[3]”

Isa is correct.