/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>30464

I remember watching a video about a Rabbi speaking with a pastor about Ismael and Isaac (peace be upon them). He noted the significant (obvious) difference with Islam is how frequently muslims talk to God, asking God for forgiveness, etc.

The earlier you accept that Islam is going take over your whole life, the more comfortable you are with it and the more you will eventually embrace it. I'm sure you're tired of the degeneracy of this world, the Jews and Christians who don't care about actually upholding their religion. Most of them could never have a personal relationship with God. I heard on scripture radio while I was driving that only 10% of millenial christians go to Church regularly (which they had defined as ONCE A MONTH!). Another statistic was only 48% of Catholics(unsure of the specifics like age) believed you could have a personal relationship with God.This obviously is drastically different to Islam as we talk to Allah daily and ask him for help. For He is Al-Wali.

Sorry Im rambling. But to some it up theres 2 routes: "muslim" vs muslim. A "muslim" who never ever prays and doesnt feel bad about it or ever think about religion or A muslim who actually feels really bad that they miss prayers and try to fix it. And that I believe is the difference. The faithful are those who know when they err, and wish to return to the path and ask for forgiveness of the Merciful.

>>30464

>How do you merely exist as a Muslim? How can a person be secular? I quote Erdogan, “People cannot be secular. Only governments can be secular”. Is secularism a belief, or a behavior? Or is it, as some of you use it, an insult?

Erdogan is wrong on that one, accepting secularism makes you a secularist, it's that easy. There's no such thing as a secular muslim, we are not christians who can ignore their laws, we follow shariah daily even in our 5 daily prayers. Shariah encompasses all our lives, from diet to finance. Everything is subject to limits set by Allah swt, to deny this and believe that humans can make up any law they feel like, is apostasy. But living in a secular country, while rejecting the system, is not apostasy. That's why muslims want the caliphate, we are not truly living without it, we need it to have a complete muslim life.

(5:50) (If they turn away from the Law of Allah) do they desire judgement according to the Law of Ignorance? But for those who have certainty of belief whose judgement can be better than Allah's?

>Personally the first religion I was intrigued by was Hinduism, years ago, but only ever read a Wikipedia overview of it. I despise the constant moral ambiguity prevalent in judaism and especially atheism, and I view atheists to be the worst criminals. All the tyrant of the word were atheists.

That is true, but imo polytheists like hindus are even worst criminals than atheist, since they invent new gods spuriously, while the atheist does it out of convenience and practicality (like democracy/communism). But they are definitely both an affront to God and his enemies. Also these idolaters are known for their filth as well, just google ganges river.

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, [….] 9:28

> I also view Christianity to be extremely hateful of others, which you can see by how every ethnicity and local village has their own church with different beliefs that coincidentally say those people are superior or what not

heh, I noticed that too, theres too much division and tribalism in their religion, it has been cursed by Allah (swt)

And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do. 5:14

> But is that an oxymoron for a not very religious person to be a Muslim?

Depends how you define non religious, being muslim means you will have to follow Islamic practices and guidelines and also believe in Allah (swt).

>>30504

>That is true, but imo polytheists like hindus are even worst criminals than atheist, since they invent new gods spuriously

Criminality and ignorance are two different things. What is criminal is to refuse ourself to submit in front of Allah, while having the ultimate proof that he exists. That's satanism, and that's disgusting. Now, you can't accuse people that didn't have the proof, like today. Muhammed was the last prophet. No one will ever bring back the message until jesus comes and close our cycle.

If hindus are criminals, why muslims have let hinduism live, when islam conquered India?

>it has been cursed by Allah (swt)

Proof? If i'm not wrong, Allah never curse any religion, especially christianity, since they were called "the people of the book". There are none muslim who's gonna go in heaven. So cursing a religion doesn't make sense. Now, cursing a people for degrading a religion and going degenerate is another matter. That's what happened to the hebrews, if I'm not wrong, in the Quran.

Never forget that we have to respect every religion and other believes. The only one that we have to truly call as enemies are Satanists, thus people who have the ultimate proof of the existence of Allah, but still rejecting him (like pharaon, like the pharisiens etc..). The Quran alone is not a suficiens proof. Even our prophets had to prove that they were prophets with miracles. Don't mix up "koufar" told in the Quran, as an enemy IN THE CONTEXT of the time of the prophet, and every none believers. I even think that koufar is only used in the Quran in the context of war against none believers. Never ever against none believers that did nothing. Only Allah gives faith to someone. That's why we never ever force conversion nor punish apostasy.

Anyone saying otherwise is in ignorance, and is very dangerous for islam (like Daesh and the wahabits are).

>>30538

>displays complete ignorance of the Quran and Islam in general

>"anyone who disagrees with me is an ignorant wahabi daeshi terrorist"

Are you for real?

>>30541

I extensively searched about what I said. I'm a muslim myself.

So you'll have to say more than just "complete ignorance of the Quran".

I very well know that I goes against what most muslims think about their religion. I'm not gonna hide that.

>>30542

Kuffar, including christians, are cursed on several occasions. For example:

>God has cursed the unbelievers, and prepared for them a Blaze, 33:64

As for your saying

>I even think that koufar is only used in the Quran in the context of war against none believers.

then this is not true either. kufr/kafir is the word for disbelief and disbeliever in the Quran. See for example:

>Many of the People of the Book wish they might restore you as unbelievers, after you have believed, in the jealousy of their souls, after the truth has become clear to them; yet do you pardon and be forgiving, till God brings His command; truly God is powerful over everything. 2:109

the word unbelievers here is kuffar, but it's not talking about war but rather disbelief itself.

>>30545

Allah is cursing on peoples, not traditions. Moreover, and I'm not good enough in this, but none believers that didn't get the message of Islam with the absolute proof don't go in hell. Al Ghazali in his The Revival of the Religious Sciences is clear: he does not say that none believers will go in hell (the formula he uses is "I hope they go to paradise"). If there was an absolute proof that none believers that didn't got the message would go to hell, he would have never said that. Now, I'll have to learn by heart every passage where "none believers" is used and their context, to end this damn literalism that is so dangerous to our religion.

>>30546

>not traditions

The traditions are the kufr itself. Kufr, innovation etc. are obviously condemned throughout the Quran.

>Now, I'll have to learn by heart every passage where "none believers" is used and their context

You can search on eg. corpus.quran.com after the word, so in this case kuffar, and check, before making wrong statements and calling other people ignorant "wahabits".

>The Quran alone is not a suficiens proof.

>If there was an absolute proof that none believers that didn't got the message would go to hell

The message is the Quran which is sufficient proof.

>>30538

>Criminality and ignorance are two different things. What is criminal is to refuse ourself to submit in front of Allah, while having the ultimate proof that he exists. That's satanism, and that's disgusting. Now, you can't accuse people that didn't have the proof, like today. Muhammed was the last prophet. No one will ever bring back the message until jesus comes and close our cycle.

There's no difference in how we consider them, we see them as kuffar either way. Allah swt will deal with them.

>If hindus are criminals, why muslims have let hinduism live, when islam conquered India?

Because they weren't shafi'ite and preferred taking jizyah from them. Big mistake imo since now they kill muslims for slaughtering cows

>Proof? If i'm not wrong, Allah never curse any religion,

I literally just posted the verse

And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do. 5:14

READ

>Never forget that we have to respect every religion and other believes.

nope, read up on walaa wal baraa

>The Quran alone is not a suficiens proof.

yea it is… its the primary evidence for islamic claims, which you are making up out of your own desires with no evidence

>Anyone saying otherwise is in ignorance, and is very dangerous for islam (like Daesh and the wahabits are).

I guess most who follow sunnah are isis, ok.

u prob shia innit

>>30547

>The traditions are the kufr itself. Kufr, innovation etc. are obviously condemned throughout the Quran.

So original Christianity is kufr? Is that the same for original judaism? Original hinduism etc…? My point is that corrected traditions are all religions of the same god. So cursing them doesn't make sense. You only can curse and call kufr people that modify them.

Because if I follow you logic, Allah should curse Islam, since there are so much people today believing a false islam.

>You can search on eg. corpus.quran.com after the word

I'm not a specialist, and the explanation in my language, not in english. That's why I'm limited, and I prefer to not say anything wrong in this field. I'll have to reread to be exact. But ayway, it would be a problem because it would go in a certain way against sourate 109 Al-Kafirun.

>The message is the Quran which is sufficient proof.

Allah is the one giving faith to people. Faith is not something you learn, or you find out. It's a gift from Allah. And it's very well written in the Quran that he will never give this gift to every one of earth. So what about these people, that will not have this privilege? All in hell? And for what evil, since they don't have to respect our rules?

Moreover, are you ready to admit with absolute certainly that anyone that read the Quran honestly can only submit to it, and if he feels nothing about it, he's revolting against Allah? That's very hard to believe, since a lot of christians and others during centuries, have read the Quran, honestly, without ever joining in islam. That means that Allah doesn't gives you faith automatically if you read the Quran. And it you said otherwise, seriously, I'll need proof. Because if as it is stated in the Quran, some people will always have their ears closed, so it doesn't make sense that they'll open by simply reading the book.

Anyway, the only way for Allah to apply a punishement, as I said, is to first send a prophet or a messenger to these people, as it is stated in Quran, 17:15: "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.". A book is not a messenger, nor a proof. And this proof have to be absolutely clear; you can't refutate it.

>>30554

>Because they weren't shafi'ite and preferred taking jizyah from them.

Are you retarded? Never ever muslims have killed anyone that was following a different religion, anywhere in the land of Islam (there may be some exception, with the last degenerate caliphs).

>but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded.

So it's the people following a modified religion, not the original religion itself.

>nope, read up on walaa wal baraa

You're contesting sourate 109 Al-Kafirun? Are you against the Quran? Or are you reading the Quran without any explanation of the context of the verses?

>its the primary evidence for islamic claims

Yeah, that's for sure. But it has nothing to do with new people that don't know about Allah.

Quran, 17:15: "Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.". I don't see "we sent a book". Moreover, the proof brought by the messenger has to be absolutly clear. Muhammed have first convinced its followers with miracles.

Truly, the islam followed today is different from the original one. But that's understandable, since it has been 14 century since its definition, and the fact that we're very close to the end of the world.

And again, I'm not Shiah, I'm simply searching on my religion, and I'm not taught by a wahabit. I'm from western europe btw.

>>30558

>You only can curse and call kufr people that modify them.

Uh ok, that's modern christians anyway since their religion is just innovated doctrines.

>it would be a problem because it would go in a certain way against sourate 109 Al-Kafirun.

No it doesn't.

>a lot of christians and others during centuries, have read the Quran, honestly, without ever joining in islam.

[citation needed]

Your position makes no sense. If you believe Allah guides the sincere then what is even your contention anymore?

>And it you said otherwise, seriously, I'll need proof.

Need proof of what? That rejecting the Quran makes you a kaafir? Really?

>A book is not a messenger, nor a proof.

You know what the word for miracle is used in the Quran? It's aayat. So the entire Quran is the greatest aayat ie miracle. And another word used for proof is: bayyinaat. Again, it's used to describe the Quran.

And book can be evidence according to the Quran; read:

>Say: "Have ye seen (these) 'Partners' of yours whom ye call upon besides Allah? Show Me what it is they have created in the (wide) earth. Or have they a share in the heavens? Or have We given them a Book from which they (can derive) clear (evidence)?- Nay, the wrong-doers promise each other nothing but delusions. 35:40

as well as

>They say, 'Why does he not bring us a sign from his Lord?' Has there not come to them the clear sign of what is in the former scrolls? 20:133

>>30559

>not the original religion itself.

Yes, none is saying the original religion of Jesus as is cursed. But the sects they created.

> Or are you reading the Quran without any explanation of the context of the verses?

No, you are.

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. Verse (60:4)

>Muhammed have first convinced its followers with miracles.

False, it was dawah that convinced the majority. Show me one example of using miracles to bring people to Islam. There isn't any. You don't know anything.

When you claim something you need to back it up using quran and secondly the sunnah, or else you risk going in the hellfire.

>I'm from western europe btw.

What country? Are you christian convert or born muslim? And what's the problem with salafism?

>>30563

>False, it was dawah that convinced the majority. Show me one example of using miracles to bring people to Islam. There isn't any. You don't know anything.

>When you claim something you need to back it up using quran and secondly the sunnah, or else you risk going in the hellfire.

That's very easy. Muhammed have splited the moon in half, for people that asked for a miracle. Moussa have turned his baton into a snack, making all magicians of pharaon to convert to islam. Muhammed was not able to read, nor write, yet he brought the highest level of arabic litterature ever. There is plenty of example.

Else from that, nearly everyone at the time were spiritual, and belonging to a tradition at some point. Moreover, a lot were waiting for a prophet to come. That's why it was not "that hard" and that nearly everyone convert to islam.

Now, today, most of people are atheists (in the west), and believe that islam is about beating women, and decapitation. The message is transmitted? Do they have enough to be able to reason about it? Certainly not.

What I don't understand is that most of the islamic school agree with that, that people who don't have a messenger, or a VERY clear message are not prone to hell. These people will either go directly in paradise, or they'll have to pass a test after their death. That's the only divergence. But most muslim prefer this very simple way of thinking that there are "good people", us, and all the others are bad and go in hell. That's such a simplistic way of thinking. The world is far more complicated than that. The funny thing is that the christian are doing the same, the jews are doing the same.

That's pretty normal after all that islam fall in this too now, since (i don't remember what I read that) islam will end up looking like judaism at its end.

>What country? Are you christian convert or born muslim? And what's the problem with salafism?

Born, and my problem with salafism is very simple: thinking that a certain length of beard, wearing a habaya with a certain length, will make you a better muslims and closer to god is retarded. Moreover, salafism emerged from the muslim brotherhood, which have direct ties with british secret services (switzerland declassified national archive confirm that the son of Hasan al Bana was a british agent). The muslim brotherhood is organisizing the recruitment in tunisia, pakistan etc.. for daesh. Saudi Arabia, which don't officialy support salafism, actually support it financially everywhere.

Islam is about spirituality, and getting closer to Allah. Not about length of beard, or classifying the world as heaven/hell people. Moreover, islam is far simpler than salafism is showing it. And far more tolerant. That's a sin to make the religion more complicated than it is.

>>30572

I mean, I still meet people today thinking that islam is immortal, and everything else is to put to the trash.

The reality is that everything dies. Now, islam will be able to keep itself alife until the end of the world, but how many people will follow the real one?

I mean, just look at Saudi Arabia. These treators are occupying Mecca and Medina. I'm sorry, but I personally think that Mecca is under occupation, and that no one should do the hadj, to not give money to SA that will directly help israel. Look at the last caliph, that were sabatteans. The Saudi family must be sabatteans too (big families of Turkey too).

There is so much enemies inside the ouma that seriously, things get harder to go through.

Not even talking about the state of muslims themselves, that think that not eating pork and doing the ramadan will make them muslims. That's incredibly retarded. Everyone missed the most important point of islam: spirituality, being close to Allah, and globally being a good person. Everyone, each time they encounter anything, will have this instinct asking "Hallah? Haram?". Everyone is like that now. The simplicity of islam is totaly forgotten.

>>30574

Stop basing your religion on the news.

>>30572

>thinking that a certain length of beard, wearing a habaya with a certain length, will make you a better muslims and closer to god is retarded.

following sunnah is retarded?

>>30572

>salafism emerged from the muslim brotherhood

false, salafism as a movement existed before the brotherhood, and its simply following the first 3 generations of muslims based on this quran verse and hadith

You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah . If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient. [Surah ale imran 3:110]

Narrated `Abdullah:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The best people are those of my generation, and then those who will come after them (the next generation), and then those who will come after them (i.e. the next generation), and then after them, there will come people whose witness will precede their oaths, and whose oaths will precede their witness." Sahih al-Bukhari 6429

The first 3 generations are called the salaf, now tell me whats wrong with following them if we want the pure Islam?

(btw I agree that MB is wrong but not for the same reason as you)

>>30574

The most important point of Islam is tawheed. And I'm willing to bet you support tawagheet like assad, iran and even some democracies. Saudi family is corrupt, they are taghut, so is turkey. We are in the end times, the saved sect (taifa mansura) is a small group of mujahids. According to end time hadiths.

‘Imraan ibn Husayn (may Allaah be pleased with him) said that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “A group of my ummah will continue fighting for the truth, and will prevail over those who oppose them, until the last of them will kill al-Maseekh al-Dajjaal (the Liar or Anti-Christ).”

It was narrated from Thawban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

“The earth was brought together for me so that I could see the east and the west, and I was given two treasures, the red (persian empire) and the white (roman empire). And it was said to me: ‘Your dominion will extend as far as has been shown to you.’ I asked Allah for three things: That my nation would not be overwhelmed by famine that would destroy them all, and that they would not be rent by schism and fight one another, but it was said to me: ‘When I (Allah) issue My decree it cannot be revoked. But I will never cause your nation to be overwhelmed by famine that would destroy them all, and I will not gather their enemies against them (and destroy them) until they annihilate one another and kill one another.’ Once they start to fight amongst themselves, that will continue until the Day of Resurrection. What I fear most for my nation is misguiding leaders. Some tribes among my nation will worship idols and some tribes among my nation will join the idolaters. Before the Hour comes there will be nearly thirty Dajjals (great liars), each of them claiming to be a Prophet. But a group among my nation will continue to adhere to the truth and be victorious, and those who oppose them will not harm them, until the command of Allah comes to pass.’” Sunan Ibn Majah 3952

>>30609

The Saudi family has accomplished more in the service of Islam and Muslims than any of those " small groups" you're hinting at.

>>30631

I don't completely bar their contributions, such as in knowledge but that's mostly due to ale sheikh and not ale saud. Building mosques and dawah is good as well. May Allah reward the sincere ones.

>>30635

But Aal Sauud founded the country, did we forget about that?

>>30637

They founded it for power, if not then they would reestablish the caliphate, the ikhwan were ready to expand even more, but they killed them after using them. That doesn't give them a pass when they betray islam.

>>30638

>They founded it for power

Aha, as opposed to your unnamed "groups" that all failed. Of course THEY were the rightly guided ones. That makes a lot of sense.

>if not then they would reestablish the caliphate

what caliphate? They were going to conquer the world or what?

>>30639

> Of course THEY were the rightly guided ones. That makes a lot of sense.

That's what the hadith says, their intentions is tawhid not "economic growth" or "reform islam"

>what caliphate? They were going to conquer the world or what?

they wanted to try, yes, thats what muslims have to do

>>30641

>That's what the hadith says

The hadith doesn't apply to them. Go find the hadiths about the khawarij and you'll see them applying better. You see it's funny how there's hundreds of these groups all across the Arab world, they're all the "saved sect", they're all "mujahidoon" that will supposedly fight the kuffar and establish a caliphate, yet, which are the safest countries in the entire region? Oh that's right, israel and iran. Go figure. All they can do is destroy for Muslims. Their biggest enemy is Saudi Arabia because it's the most successful Islamic country.

You khilafah-LARPers are so pathetic, and ironically you end up agreeing the most with the super liberal western Muslims who all make takfir of Saudi Arabia as well and pray for its destruction.

>>30609

>And I'm willing to bet you support tawagheet like assad, iran and even some democracies.

Seriously, I'm tired of you all that call none believers anyone that question dogma that they think is wrong and against real Islam.

>>30638

>>30642

Are you aware that the Saudi family are Sabbateans, and a direct allie of Israel (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-prince-israel/saudi-crown-prince-says-israelis-have-right-to-their-own-land-idUSKCN1H91SQ and so much other proofs), under direct american domination, and have spread salafism and wahabism on the order of the USA (https://tribune.com.pk/story/1672777/3-wahhabism-spread-behest-west-cold-war-mohammed-bin-salman/)?. Cheb Khaled, this degenerate received in Saudi arabia; they use now since last two year the gregorian calendar and dropped the islamic calendar (https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2016/10/3/saudi-arabia-abandons-islamic-calendar-to-save-money); the "prince" buying the most expensive property in the world (castle louis xvi in france); it's proven that Saudi arabia is hosting the head quarters of Daesh; Saudia arabia was paying the 1000 dollars to the Daesh soldiers; Saudi Arabia built a big ben in fron of Mecca, and brought a lot of trade around the Mecca while it's totaly illegal (the marchands are in the temps); Saudi arabia have replaced the obelisk to which you throw the stones in the pilgrim; Saudia arabia is killing everything is Yemen etc… etc… etc…

Seriously, there is SO SO SO SO much against saudi arabia that how in the hell anyone can defend them.

>they wanted to try, yes, thats what muslims have to do

Absolutly not. Muslim can only go to war to defend themselves. They can't conquer by war others.

>>30643

This kafir troll again. Get a life. And Cheb Khaled is just some random artist, how did he even get involved? You're literally just rambling deliriously. Actually don't get a life, get medical help for your fried brain.

>>30538

>>30643

These are the mental patients making takfir of Saudi Arabia. You don't even know the definition of kafir to begin with as we've already seen. You're ignorant of basic concepts in the Quran.

>>30642

We pray towards mecca, which does not belong to any ale salul dogs. You are ready to call muslims khawarij without evidence, and defend the dogs of america because you do not fear Allah and don't want the caliphate, because of that you are a deviant. saudi arabia is dar al kufr , deal with it

>>30643

>Absolutly not. Muslim can only go to war to defend themselves. They can't conquer by war others.

You don't know anything, you ignoramus. That's how islam was spread, since the romans and persians were mushrik and didn't allow any muslim dawah. Look at the muslim empire, you think that was 'self defense' you are delusional. Jihad is part of islam, deal with it.

>>30538

I advise you to stop using misnomers, it just makes your argument weak

>>30657

kafir LARPer.

>>30679

BOI you making takfir on me for being anti al sauds hahaha xD