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/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

If you want to talk to Allah, pray. If you want Allah to talk to you, read Qur'an.
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File: 204ea493dcec1f5⋯.png (285.41 KB, 928x250, 464:125, muslim prayer.png)

dbfe49  No.29283

Dear /islam/, السلام عليكم,

I'm coming from /christian/ with a matter that has been bugging me lately - prayer and religious observance in your religion.

>Note that I'm neither a "shaky Christian on the verge of converting to Islam" nor do I want to proselytize you (apparently this seems a noteworthy thing due to the latest occurrences).

Alright, back to the concern: As you might know, Christianity, especially the Apostolic branches of Catholicism and Eastern orthodoxy, are supposedly declining. Not as per numbers, but as per piety, observance of Divine Law/Church commandments etc.. People call it "modernism" or "apostasy" or whatever.

With regards to this, some members of the Church hierarchy (namely for example Cdls. Sarah and Arinze, i.e., African cardinals that have experience with muslim fellows) expressed that we as Catholics (Christians in general) could learn from muslims when it comes to religious observance (of course while condemning any form of violence sparking from potentially or purposefully misinterpreted verses of the Quran and all that - I'm not educated on that topic so I won't dive deeper into it).

So while I was thinking about that, it came to mind that you guys pray 5 times a day (that is: among the customs that I know of/have seen myself at one occasion or the other) - and I read about that. Now I've found that you in principle calculate the time spans for each of the prayers new for each day, because they need to correspond to sunrise and -set. Further does it seem that you guys (again, those that we would consider pious rather than the "hand-waving" sorta people) are way more strict and rigorous when it comes to things haram.

Also the "thing" (in lack of a better term) with the prayer positions (as seen in pic related) seem to be very strict in a sense that there is a need to go through them, right ? That is especially interesting as we Christians seem to keep it "BYOB" with regards to that (except sick or old people and also except in the Holy Mass): Some kneel, some stand, some fold hands, some interlace fingers, some do it just casually … and so on and so forth.

What I'd like to know, or rather what I'd like you to tell me - maybe as a starting point if you will, in case this develops into an actual discussion - is how you keep it with the general observance of religious imperatives, e.g.

- prayer times (incl. do you calculate the times/time spans, etc.)

- prayer stance and if you pray outside of these "5 major times", maybe with prayer ropes ?!

- observance of feasts and special time periods (for example Ramadan)

- observance of "general" laws (for example what to eat, what to drink, sexual stuff [please leave that out in case it's scandalous], etc.)

- … (and so on and so forth - depending on your time/willingness)

One important thing that often and repeatedly comes up is the fact that you guys are "horribly" (I don't mean that in a bad way) reverend with regards to God, other religious figures (prophets) and even among yourselves (well … apart form the "denomination infighting" I've heard of with shia and sunni and all that … but that's not what I'm aiming at, so don't mind me and don't bother going into this).

Now, I don't want to belittle anyone but who answers this I ask you to be something that could be described as "pious" muslim - not some kind of cultural guy (like we have among Christians) or gal that states things like "ah praying 5 times a day is not that important actually" (provided people like exist .. which I'm pretty sure they do).

With all that being said, I look forward to hear from you and remain with best regards,

/christian/ anon

God bless

____________________________
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b23a4b  No.29287

>>29283

That is a lot to unpack and, frankly, I'm not really sure what you're asking. Everything we do - from prayer times, to prayer positions, to feasts/fasts, etc - are all in Qur'an. If it's not based in Qur'an, we're not supposed to do it. We have no ambiguity, nothing "esoteric", no hidden meanings.

We pray at the 5 times because Qur'an tells us to do so. We neither add nor subtract. There is literally only one way to be Muslim. If you add to or subtract from Qur'an, then you are not Muslim. It's sort of like Mormons claiming to be Christian when they've added an entirely new book to the Bible and reject other aspects of the Bible. There are different schools of thought in Islam, but there is only one Islam. Sort of like different Orders in Catholicism. The Franciscans and the Dominicans are different schools of thought, but they're both Catholic.

I'm not sure what else to say about it.

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5067ac  No.29289

File: 51bdfac845803f7⋯.png (557.61 KB, 793x1024, 793:1024, example timetable.png)

I can explain prayer, if it helps. Note that Islam defines prayer specifically as the strict ritual, but we can still use rosaries and praise or ask God for help in the same way Christians do. If it helps with searching, Islamic prayer is known as salah in Arabic, and putting your hands together to praise God or ask for help is know as duaa.

>Structure

Prayer is done in units (rakats in Arabic). The mostly follow the same structure:

>Standing, reciting verse 1 of the Quran followed by any other verse

>Bowing, while praising God

>Standing again, as a break between bowing and prostration

>Prostration, while praising God

>Kneeling, as a break

>Prostration, while praising God

>Starting the next unit

As an example, if a prayer is 4 units you'd do that 4 times. Most prayers are 2, 3 or 4 units long, so they don't take that long. All Muslims have to follow the same structure, but concessions are made for people who physically can't do it.

Muslims can pray alone or in congregation. in a congregation, the guy in front does most of the talking, and everyone else does his actions after he does them. Mosques host congregations for all 5 obligatory prayers, but you can also just go in and pray outside the congregation times.

>Timings

Prayer times are calculated by the position of the sun. There are 5 main times, and 3 where prayer isn't allowed.

>Dawn(fajr), dawn to sun starting to rise

<disallowed time, during sunrise

<disallowed time, when the sun is at it's peak

>Noon(zuhr), from when the sun starts to sink to afternoon

>Afternoon(asr), from afternoon to when the sun starts to set

>disallowed time, during sunset

>Sunset(maghrib), from sun fully setting to twilight

>Night(ishaa), from twilight to dawn

The easiest way to know what time it is is to just look for the sun. Mosques usually print out timetables from astronomical calculations as well, like pic related.

Each time has a prayer that has to be done during the time. The times are usually flexible enough that you can work prayer around other tasks.

>Prayer types

There are obligatory(fard) prayers that have to be done. Missing them counts as a sin.

There are also recommended prayers as done by the early Muslims (sunnah), which are either before or after the obligatory one. Generally anyone who bothers to do the obligatory one does these too, because they're convenient. They can be missed, but missing them is supposed to be an exception rather than the norm.

You can also just pray whatever you want on top(nafl). As long as you aren't in a disallowed time you can decide on whatever prayer length you want and just do it.

>General observance

Most Muslims I've met fulfil the 5 daily prayers. The ones I know who don't try to make excuses, which is a bit unfortunate. Pretty much all the ones who pray will also pray the recommended prayers, and about half of them do optional prayers.

Muslims have Friday sermons, instead of Sunday. On Fridays, the Noon prayer is replaced by a 2 unit Friday prayer done in congregation. The Friday prayer is usually when most Muslims are at the mosque, because it has to be done in one.

There was a Christian guy who wrote an article about praying 5 times a day. You might find it helpful: https://religionnews.com/2018/04/03/during-lent-a-christian-tries-praying-5-times-a-day/

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dbfe49  No.29292

>>29287

Good morning. I guess what I'm asking is not only the "specifics" - more your experiences with it. Simple things like "ok how do I motivate myself to do x", how important it is to you (I mean that should be an obvious one but I figured that later on, people would do stuff - even prayer rules and so on - more out of routine than true devotion so to speak, if you know what I mean) and so on and so forth.

I know that was alot to ask - but I want to try and learn as I think it'll make me a better Christian but as I said, I'm not here for theological discussion whatsoever, so don't worry about that - however, if you of course need Quran-verses to spell your point I don't want you to stop that).

God bless

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dbfe49  No.29293

>>29289

Good morning ! That is very interesting. Mind me, I want to think about it and return later on.

Until then I wish you guys a great day ! (or night if you're going to sleep right now :^)

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b23a4b  No.29294

>>29292

Ah, well, motivation is simple. God commanded it. Even if it's done by rote, it's still something God commanded and we need to strive to please God. In reality, though, someone who prays the 5 daily prayers - even out of mere habit - is still expressing true devotion in remembering what God has asked of us.

Enjoin prayer on thy people, and be constant therein. We ask thee not to provide sustenance: We provide it for thee. But the (fruit of) the Hereafter is for righteousness. [20:132]

As for your part as a Christian, there's no reason you can't pray 5, 10, or 1000 times a day and even supplicate yourself in prostration. (1 Chronicles 29:20) Even Jesus(pbuh) did so. (Matthew 26:39)

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320f50  No.29302

You can pray more than 5 times, prayer should be a state of being/awareness/rememberance you carry with you all day, not simply at some pre-set times; Christians are told to pray constantly, Buddhists meditate when they walk…step your game up OP

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dbfe49  No.29306

After thinking for a while about the things having been said in this thread by the few replies, I've come to the conclusion that I know "everything I wanted to know" in principle.

First of all it seemed I've started this with the completely wrong mindset. For some reason I was expecting something super fancy and nifty as answer - while the obvious one, the one that has been given: because God (or: the Quran) says so, was the answer that would absolutely suffice.

The insight on how "muslim" prayer works (I mean the whole around) was great though I appreciate that very much, thank you.

If you want you may delete the thread, or leave it open for future questions regarding these topics (specifically by Christians ?) or whatever.

Again, thank you for your input and may God guide you on your ways.

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b23a4b  No.29322

>>29306

Very happy to have helped. It is important to let the world know more about Islam.

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