/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

Firstly it's going to be hard and dangerous. Kuffar do not want it, it's their biggest fear. Could you imagine a pan Islamic nation from africa to south east asia? Preventing them from exploiting african and arab resources, throwing their waste in our lands and using our fishing waters? All the energy and raw materials that would not go in their pockets, but instead for Allah's cause. Truly a majestic nation.

But the bitter truth is we must improve and fix ourselves first. The core problem of the ummah is lack of knowledge and iman, this can be seen by the blatant nationalism and secular mindset many muslims have. While the arabs fly their nationalist flags, there was no conquest or glory, but only submission to the west and humiliation. To rally together under the flag of tawheed would require a purification of the souls of the believers, patience and seeking knowledge. Once you have that, Allah s.w.t will remove his humiliation that he was sent upon us for disobeying him, and will aid us to defeat all the enemies, from the arab apostates to rafidah and return the ahlul kitab in their state of humiliation under jizyah.

Do not see this state we are in as any harder than our previous history dear ummah, the mongols did not show the iraqi muslims any more mercy than the americans, nor did the rafidah mushrikeen show any loyalty to the muslims during crusades. Neither is Israel's 70 years of miserly existence compare to the crusader occupation of Jerusalem.

Indeed this is achievable, and if you do not purify yourself and learn your Islam, then you will not harm Allah's path in any way and He will replace us with a superior people. So I am always hopeful and know this satanic system will soon collapse by Allah's leave. The promise of Allah never fails. So know that the ark is open and the flood is coming.

>>28004

It takes more than just revolt and war to establish a khilafat. Jihad, not only on the battlefield but in every aspect of our lives, is one of the main things that is necessary. No matter how much the kuffar plan, in the end, The promise of Allah will come true.

>>28007

>>28011

But looking at today's circumstances, how should we react to Muslims (especially the scholars) in whom say we must not revolt against our leaders? Even tho they are 'Democratic' 'Secularist' 'Nationalist' but still 'Muslim'? And putting this also with the question, is IS (Islamic State) a legitimate polity? According to the classical texts of Authority fiqh in Islam, "We must obey and give bay'ah to those who have Authority over us. Even if they achieved said Authority through war, so we can not be divided" (excerpted) —

Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Safaareeniyyah (p. 688).

>>28028

When we get the means, we should rise against them.

>>28028

That is indeed a legitimate question. A question I've heard from a few people recently, and I've also asked myself something similar.

"why do we so hastily accept the leadership of kuffar and our so called "muslim" leaders who do things that hurt the ummah; however, we readily deny and denounce groups like isis?Indeed, why do we readily denounce the khawarij but hesitate when it comes to the opposite end of the spectrum?"

Well, tbh, I don't have a complete answer to that question but I have understood it like this :

We need to look at social, economical and ofc, religious matters as well when looking at a leader. In the case of kuffar leaders, if they are ruling us, it generally means the state doesn't have shariat. But are they directly harming muslims? Like in the case of kemalists that forcefully took Quran from people or like in iran where they forcefully tore the hijabs from women? In such case, a revolt might be justified. But during periods of peace, if a revolt is more harmful to the people than what's normally going on, it's probably not the best idea. In case of muslims leaders who don't uphold the shariat, well the matter seems to be more clear than the first. We cannot look into their hearts, so we cannot know whether they are actually munafiqs or they are unable to do their part despite being in power because their hands are tied by rules and indirect efforts of the kuffar. Thus, a revolt against them would be more harmful to the people and is probably not a good idea. Then it comes to groups like isis. Groups that have been well-established as khawarijis. And we know from sahih hadith that we should fight the khawarij. In fact, if I remember correctly, I once read somewhere that there was a sheikh(I forgot his name) who isis took inspiration from. They stated his rulings to justify their actions. But later on, even that sheikh called out isis. Infact, that salafi sheikh takfired isis and then isis tried to kill him(Once again, I'm confused as to whether they succeeded). However, once again, it's better not to fight them until they unlawfully shed the blood of muslims and raid the property of muslims. Which, isis has done plenty. They harmed muslims more than they have harmed the kuffar, the israelis, the rafidis, etc. We shouldn't mass takfir the whole group of isis, but from what we know, we can agree that they are deviated.

If there is to be a revolt, it must be a means to achieve true victory, not unlawful bloodshed. The reason muslims were urged to obey and follow even harsh rulers is to avoid unnecessary spilling of innocent blood. But if the situation is indeed dire, if there is hope that a revolt will do more good than harm, if we can be sure that the revolt won't result in too much bloodshed and more importantly that it won't bring further and greater harm to muslims and the ummah in general, then we should rise up. But we need to have a clear and *precise goal. "Establish the khilafat" is indeed a noble goal. But it not a very precise one. However, if everything is done in proper steps, Inshallah, we will be able to establish the khilafat.

>>28028

>say we must not revolt against our leaders?

That is the classical position as you mentioned.

>Even tho they are 'Democratic' 'Secularist' 'Nationalist' but still 'Muslim'?

That is the general attitude of the population as well. Until that change what is the revolt going to do? Nothing good.

>>28037

That's a loaded question. Muslim leaders are still doing more for the ummah than isis.

Any "revival" attempt is going to have to be an organized effort. Not just some random groups taking up rifles and murdering police officers.

>>28007

>Kuffar do not want it, it's their biggest fear.

I don't think most think about this or even care. The problem isn't kuffar, it's us. And probably jews to some extent.

>>28004

>Why won't we, Muslims, establish one already to solve all our problems?

First we have to all get along, infighting is too prevalent, too many big schisms and petty squabbles.

Also not all muslims are fans of the sharia, like liberal muslims, they cry at the thought of ☻s getting lashes or punishment for their sodomy exercises. Go figure.

>>28040

>I don't think most think about this or even care

Nah he's correct. Otherwise the west's entire propaganda machine wouldn't be working non-stop to paint Muslims and the Arab world in a bad light, nor would they be supporting every kind of group as long as they're against the Muslim world, be they apostates, secularists, shia, you name it.

>>28039

And what if it's the classical position? It's still bound to all time. You're claiming that even the prophet Muhammad saaws own commands are "classical" as well. Or am I missing something?

>Muslim leaders are still doing more for the ummah than isis.

Is there such thing as a pure Islamic Society?

>>28042

How do you define the west? Because many western countries are really amicable towards muslims and islam.

>>28049

There is no such thing as 'amicable' in geopolitics, it's all for their interests.

>>28046

I wasn't criticizing it by saying that it was classical.

>Is there such thing as a pure Islamic Society?

Probably saudi arabia.

>>28049

>Because many western countries are really amicable towards muslims and islam.

Some western countries are amicable toward immigrants that are Muslims, I'm not denying that, although this is changing as anti-immigrant sentiments are increasing everywhere. But I wouldn't really say they're amicable towards Islam.

>>28046

>Is there such thing as a pure Islamic Society?

Oman's pretty close. Maybe Yemen. It's a tough call, really. 100% purity is literally impossible for humans.

>>28055

>>28065

A pure Islamic Society is where A 'muslim' Is the definition of that state. Its where all "Muslims" , irrespective of nationality or Race, reside in. It is where the Citizenship of that state is by being Muslim. Saudi Arabia and Oman is a monarchy. And Yemen calls itself a democracy. So, no. There is no pure Islamic Society. Plus, a pure one is possible. It can happen if CULTURE of the region gets eliminated.

>>28090

"pure islamic society" is not a sharia definition afaik. If it is perhaps you can tell me where I can read more about it. As far as your definition though then per it there has been no pure Islamic society since al khilafa al rashida and probably never will be again.

>>28093

>and probably never will be again.

false

Imam Ahmad narrates that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh stated "There will be Prophethood for as long as Allah wills it to be, then He will remove it when He wills, then there will be Khilafah on the Prophetic method and it will be for as long as Allah wills, then He will remove it when He wills, then there will be biting Kingship for as long as Allah Wills, then He will remove it when He wills, then there will be oppressive kingship for as long as Allah wills, then he will remove it when He wills, and then there will be Khilafah upon the Prophetic method” and then he remained silent."

Well in response to OP its obvious that any Muslim will want to establish Khilafat. The problem is that we have tawagheet running all of our countries at the moment. Some Muslims have been trying, and looked how the community responded

>khawarij!!!!111!!!1!

Its really sad. But ultimately we know from the hadeeth that khilafat will be established upon the Sunnah. If you look to the hadeeth, Rasulullah sayus that after the Rashidun, the rule will be that of dynastic monarchy. Followed by the rule of despots (what we have today for the most part). After that will be Khilafat upon the Sunnat-al Nebewiyyah. Its looking like the last few monarchies are shaky. So hopefully it will come soon. But the question is will we be involved in it or not. May Allah make us from those who will establish khilafat, ameen.

>>29371

That might have something to do with the whole killing everyone you don't like thing

Islam is like communism, it exist but doesn't work. Can you give me an example of an exemplary Islamic state? Can you give me an example (outside the barrel of a gun) that would make me want to convert? Like the Jews, you point to a book which contains no actual logic, just that "this god is the best one because it says so."

>>29373

Hmm… Have you tried actually reading a Qur'an? Scary suggestion I know, but I hear alot of people are big fans.

>>29375

I have, but you didn't answer my questions.

>>29372

The people they killed were not just 'people they didn't like'. They killed enemies and apostates. Regular Muslims and People of the Book were not touched. Don't believe everything the (( (media) )) tells you. The Qur'an says that when a fasiq comes to you with information you must check to make sure its accurate. That's when a fasiq gives you info. Let alone a kafir who is literally at war with Islam.

>>29374

This.

>>29374

You ask a lot of questions and make a lot of assumptions. This leads me to think you're here to LARP, demanding from others that which you don't do yourself.

I have 6 children and am very active in the community. Why are you assuming otherwise?

>>29379

Masha'Allah brother, six children.

>>29374

> Why aren't you absolutely ripped?

I want to get ripped but my Shayk says vanity is for homosexuals.

>>29409

Don't get ripped for vanity, muscles have utility, use them.

>>29377

They killed a convert, an aid worker the list goes on. I was not 'told' this, they literally put up videos, I can confirm it with my own eyes.

>>29376

No you haven't, you're woefully ill equipped to have this discussion hence I won't bother until you read every page.

>>29475

Ibn Kathīr, the famous Muslim historian and student of Ibn Taymiyya, writes in his al-Bidāya wa-l-Nihāya (vol. 10, p. 584 - paraphrased) :

And of the people whom the Kharijites killed was Abdullah b. Khabāb, the Companion of the Prophet (salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam). They captured him, along with his pregnant wife, and said, "Who are you?" "I am Abdullah b. Khabāb, the Companion of the Prophet (salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam), and you have brought harm and fear to me," he replied. "Don't worry about that," they said. "Narrate to us something that you hear from the Prophet (SAW)."

He said, "I heard my father narrate that he heard the Prophet (SAW) say: 'There shall be trials and tribulations to come. The one who sits (and does not participate) is better than the one who stands, and the one who stands is better than the one who walks, and the one who walks is better than the one who runs.'" [Point of the hadith: in times of chaos and bloodshed, don't be involved in killing and step aside].

When he narrated this hadith to them, they tightened his ropes and dragged him along. And as they were traveling, they came across a pig belonging to a Dhimmī. One of them killed the pig, but he was chastised by the others, "How dare you kill a pig belonging to a dhimmī!" so he went to the owner and recompensed him. And another ate a date on the ground that had fallen from a garden, but he was chastised, "How could you eat from it without asking permission?" so he spit out the date and didn't swallow it.

Yet, despite this outward show of piety, it was these same people who slaughtered Abdullah b. Khabāb, and when they came to kill his wife, she screamed out, "I am with child! Do you not fear Allah?!" Not only did they kill her, they slit her stomach to kill her child as well.

ISIS is like a group of Khawarij was too extreme for the Kharijites so they split off and formed a different group. As insensible and astray as the Khawarij were, they couldn’t justify taking a date from a Christian without paying for it.

>>29476

Since when do isis kill pregnant muslim women? I thought americans and rafidah did that.

>>29485

ISIS kills anyone who disagrees with or even questions them. If you take that in contrast to Umar ibn Al-Khattab, when the people of Medina had a shipment of garments evenly distributed among them, so each of them got one sheet, and when Umar went before the people and they saw that he was wearing 2 sheets, someone rudely confronted Umar saying that he was being unjust. Why should Umar have 2 sheets when everyone else only got 1? Umar didn’t even reprimand the person, he had his son come and testify that he had given his sheet to Umar as a gift. There were several occasions when Umar was questioned about a few of his decisions, and if he had made a mistake, he admitted that he was wrong and corrected the mistake. ISIS doesn’t let anyone question their decisions, even if they are in blatant violation of Islam. If you do, they kill you. Do you think they would make an exception for anyone? Even a pregnant Muslim woman?

>>29486

>ISIS kills anyone who disagrees with or even questions them.

Do you have any evidence?

>>29491

Daesh considers itself at war with all nations and with all people who do not meet its standards as "true" Muslims. Everyone on this board would be a target for murder simply for being on a website that has pornography and anti-Islamic rhetoric.

ISIS kills Muslims. There is no doubt of that.

>>29491

There are a lot of interviews that were done of people who had escaped ISIS controlled territory. They started killing anyone that didn’t follow in lock step with their methodology in Camp Bucca. Camp Bucca was an American prison in Iraq where most of the ISIS leadership was imprisoned after the invasion of Iraq. Several of ISIS’s top positions are held by former members of Saddam’s army. The Americans started putting different groups of people together, Sunnis with Sunnis, Shia with Shia etc. After that the ISIS people started doing some religious classes with the other prisoners, teaching them Aqeedah and things. Anyone that questioned their positions was murdered.

What do you think would happen if someone went up to an ISIS commander and said, “Hey why don’t we offer these people of different religions the chance to pay Jizya, instead of just executing all of them? That is what the Muslims did for over a thousand years. Why aren’t we doing that?”

When someone automatically claims that any negative reports about ISIS are all Western propaganda and lies, how are you supposed to present them with any kind of evidence? There are no independent media reports about ISIS because ISIS also likes to kill journalists. So you only get 2 points of view. ISIS propaganda and Western propaganda. Neither of them tells the complete truth. But when you listen to the reports of people that actually were there and saw what happened, it is very irrational to assume that they are all lying.

One example of how dishonest ISIS is is when they claimed responsibility for the Las Vegas Shooting. That guy wasn’t even a Muslim. They want to claim that any random murder of civilians is their doing, even when it isn’t.

>>29493

And all ISIS can tell Muslims to do is to go get a vehicle, knife or whatever and just start killing random kaffirs. Whose interests do those actions serve? The people that benefit the most are people who don’t like Islam and want to distort its image and people who want to enact tighter security regulations. Just because a Muslim or group of Muslims is frustrated or oppressed doesn’t mean they have the right to act out in a fit of desperation, senselessly killing others and themselves. The difficult thing to do is to persevere through hardship and to try to do the best with what has been given. Work a job instead of taking welfare benefits from the government. Raise a family. Be a good neighbor to all your neighbors, not just other Muslims.

>>29493

I actually like reading the stories by the Kurdish soldiers fighting ISIS on the ground. They're there in the thick of it and I believe them more than I do some internet troll.

>>29492

I think you are exaggerating, they would consider us sinners, at worst. No need to make up lies, if they are wrong then Allah swt will judge them, if you lie without proof about your muslim brother then you are in trouble.

>>29493

>Anyone that questioned their positions was murdered.

I highly doubt that, or the americans would have noticed that. If you bring me evidence I'm willing to accept it. You can't just say things, you will be held to account for everything you say and do.

>>29495

>Kurdish soldiers

You mean the gay loving communist kurds that are essentially american armed proxies? I think they might have a bias.. just a hunch.

>>29496

>defending ISIS this hard

Are you trying to get reported to the FBI or are you just being edgy?

>>29496

I saw that on an interview with a former detainee of Camp Bucca. It was on the Audience channel on its series named “Terror”. They don’t have it uploaded to youtube. I believe the testimony of that Muslim that was interviewed.

>the americans would have noticed that.

Do you think the Americans published detailed records of the murders of inmates by other inmates? That happens in almost every jail, everywhere. The American’s aren’t exactly transparent about their military operations in foreign countries. Do you think they would approach the press and say “a couple of inmates at Camp Bucca were killed during the night. No one will say that they know anything about what happened to them, and we can’t find any evidence. Would anyone want an interview with the base commander?”

Why are you cherry picking something that is relatively irrelevant, compared to widely documented evidence of the killings of thousands of people or the breaking of several Islamic laws?

>>29506

people who go around killing muslims are not your brother

>>29501

Don't take it personally, I just question sources is all. Most likely you are completely right, yet that would mean we don't need to make stuff up to show them in a bad light right? Fake news is pretty damaging for both sides.

>>29507

Depends who you define as muslim I guess.

>>29507

The Muslim is the brother of the Muslim, whether I like them or not.

>>29518

LARPing this hard for isisfags

>>29550

I don't need to apologise just cus my brother does something horrific

>>29552

How are they your brothers and not obvious apostates? Elaborate.

>>29553

They profess the shahaddah therefore they are Muslim as far as I should be concerned, even if I am wrong calling them Muslim is better than risking committing kufr myself by calling them kufs.

>>29554

Are Ahmadi your brothers? Are homosexual Quranists your brothers?

When do you start the filtering process or do you just take people at face value?

>>29555 (checked)

Yes, even if their beliefs are inane.

>>29558

>gay quaranists and ahmadis are our muslim brothers

How liberal of you.

But the fact that you call ahmadis and gay quaranists your muslim brothers would give ISIS grounds to imprison you/kill you.

Your hope that they would simply see you as "sinners" would be correct, except such sins would come with a hefty price

>>29496 "I think you are exaggerating, they would consider us sinners, at worst"

>>29559

That's fine, I don't really care how they feel about me.

>>29559

Not the same guy btw, he's wrong in saying that ahmadis and quranists are our brothers, since they contradict the quran itself, (saying theres another prophet and denying verses)

>>28037

You are talking about Abu Musab al Suri

>>29553

Can you bring evidence that killing mushrikeen takes you out of islam?

>>30143

It doesn't, but murder is a terrible sin. How are they supposed to come to Islam if they're dead? You've deprived them of the opportunity. It's best to not go around killing people willy-nilly. If you're being attacked or you're at war, that's one thing; but to just up and kill someone because they're not Muslim(yet) is a sin.