/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>27603

>You still gotta go to Friday prayers

Only compulsory for men, as far as I know.

And no, we just have the one. It's not that big of a city.

>>27602

>her

>>27603

Probably because he pretends to be a woman and wants to pray in the woman area. I don't blame the imam tbh, I wouldn't want a mentally disturbed person praying next to my sister or mother in a hidden room.

>>27606

Ah, I see. I am not familiar with this poster or they're reputation.

>>27607

My only reputation, as far as I'm aware, is that I'm a woman who prays but am pushed to the fringe of the deen for the way I was born. (Sunan Abi Dawud 4928, anyone?)

>>27611

So start pretending to be a man. I'm sure most of your issues vis a vis the community will magically go away.

>>27602

As you know, Islam is not a solitary religion. You have quite the test ahead of you. Continue to study Quran and the Sunnah, continue to pray the 5, and ask earnestly for guidance.

>>27602

>mulsima

>has a testicles that produce testosterone

lol and sage

Read books and watch lectures online maybe.

All you have to do is go to [Options] -> Filters -> Name: Undyne if you don't want to see anymore posts made under that name. This board's policy has always been "Attack the argument, NOT the poster". If you can't handle answering a simple question simply because you do not like a specific poster, then do not hit reply. That's it. Just … don't … reply.

If you have nothing productive to add to the conversation, hide the thread. If all you can do is belittle the poster, hide the thread. Don't make me start handing out bans. Be civil or gtfo.

>>27602

Well, start off by looking at things logically. If you've confirmed that Allah swt is alright with what you've decided, then that means being ostracized by your local ummah for it means you are being treated unfairly (as often happens to people in some way or another in life). However, a Muslim can persevere despite this knowing that Allah swt, the merciful and just, has their back. Essentially, do your best to practice Islam and make the most out of your situation, and leave the rest to Him. You can start this by taking the advice of >>27613 and >>27620 for example.

>>27616

It is not even remotely your place to speculate on what's in my pants. Not appropriate whatsoever.

>>27611

Yeah, well he got banished… we don't necessarily takfir you, but most masjids won't allow this…

>>27639

Technically it's not tripfagging if there's no tripcode. Literally anyone can use the name "Undyne". See? I'll do it now.

>>27640

It's still tripfagging as long as you attempt to identify yourself needlessly.

>>27641

Eh, I'd say it's namefagging in this case. Semantics, really.

>The imam has made it pretty clear that he doesn't want me hanging around the mosque, and he's stopped responding to my emails.

So he got tired of talking about transgender issues with you instead of Islam….?

Kind of like this entire board is tired of talking about your gender issues and how they "affect" your "practice".

sage

>>27643

> this entire board is tired of talking about your gender issues

Then don't talk about them, then? My gender isn't an issue except when other people keep making it one…

>>27604

You're a man male yourself bud.

Stupid modern-world retardation.

>>27648

Wow, why do we have to have this argument in every thread?? I'm a woman, end of discussion.

>>27649

Sorry but you simply aren't, no offense but if you were or "passed" you wouldn't have problems fitting in IRL. In this case for us to answer your question, we have to bring up the fact that you're transgender. That is clearly part of the issue and completely relevant to the thread, it's not a personal attack. Some well intentioned people tried to help you but don't know the full story. You asked us why, we told you why. Wanna deny reality and not change your habits? Be my guest. I think you know how that ends.

>>27657

Quit trolling about trans stuff. We can take this conversation to /lgbt/ or /mtf/ if you'd like, but it's off-topic here.

>>27659

>What do you think caused him to act like this?

Your guess is as good as mine :s

>>27665

I think the Imam's behavior is based on the fact that you are transgender. While this doesn't change or affect my personal opinion of you, it isn't exactly easy to find a mosque that will accept your status as a woman. If there are other mosques in your area, check around. Also, there is an organization that could help:

http://www.mpvusa.org/lgbtqi-resources/

The rest is up to you.

>>27665

Brother, it is a sin to be trans. That is like doing what the people of Lute did. I pray that Allah may rid you of your problem.

>>27678

>That is like doing what the people of Lute did.

You're confusing transexuality with deviant sexuality. The people of Lut (AS) had sex with their own gender. Transexuality is pretty much an unrelated issue that has to do with intentionally imitating the opposite sex, following rulings that do not pertain to your sex and non-medical, non-Islamic body modification.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/612171/jewish/The-Turkey-Prince.htm

Here's a Jewish story that might help with your dilemma. I'll leave you to work out the details of how it applies to you.

>There was once a prince who lived with his father and mother, the king and queen, in a splendid fashion. He received the finest education and upbringing.

>To his parents' chagrin, one day the prince went through an identity crisis and came to the conclusion that he was really a turkey and not a human being.

>Initially, the king and queen thought he was kidding. However, after he stopped joining them at the royal table and instead, moved under the table and sat there naked and pecking at crumbs, they knew that serious trouble was afoot.

>Needless to say, the prince's strange behavior caused indescribable angst for his loving parents, and intense embarrassment for the royal family at large. The king was ready to spare no expense for the person who could cure his son. The finest doctors and psychiatrists of the land came and tried to cure the prince, all to no avail.

>The king was at a loss until a gentle-looking wise man came to the palace. "I hereby offer to cure the prince free of charge," declared the man. "My only condition is that no one interferes with anything I do."

>Intrigued and desperate, the king and queen readily agreed.

>The following day, the prince had company under the table. It was the wise man. "What are you doing here?" asked the turkey prince.

>"Why are you here?" countered the man.

>"I am a turkey," responded the prince emphatically.

>"Well, I am also a turkey," the man replied. With that, he began to gobble like a turkey and peck at the crumbs on the floor. The prince was convinced. A few days passed in this fashion.

>One morning, the wise man signaled to the king to bring him a shirt. He said to the prince, “I don’t see any reason a turkey can’t wear a shirt.” The prince thought about it and agreed, and soon the two of them were wearing shirts.

>Soon the wise man asked to be brought a pair of pants. He said to the price, “Is it forbidden for turkeys to wear pants? Certainly not!” The prince thought it over and agreed, and soon the two of them were wearing pants.

>So the process continued. Shortly thereafter, the wise man convinced the turkey prince that it was not forbidden for turkeys to eat human food, which was surely tastier. Then came sitting at the table and enjoying human conversation. Within a short time, the turkey prince, although still maintaining that he was a turkey, began conducting himself exactly like a regular person.

>Fortunately, most of us don't suffer from turkey complexes. But here's a question we can all ask of ourselves: Am I limiting my potential because of my self perception?

>>27679

Some of them do have sex with men tho

>>27686

And some men cheat on their wives.

Some != All

>>27686

>some trannys have sex with men

that's an understatement…

>>27690

Yes, and women should be having sex with men and not with women. I don't see the issue?

>>27695

I think the issue is primarily that too many people are obsessed with genitals. I find that a little disturbing. I am more concerned with you keeping your faith and staying on the right path than with what you have between your legs. Hence: >>27666 for resources that may be of benefit to you.

This obsessive concern with genitals really needs to stop, but I find it's primarily a Western phenomenon.

>>27696

It's not an obsession with anyone's genitals, it's calling it what it is, sodomy (which brings you the curse of Allah btw)

also, >Muslims for Progressive Values

>>27699

Sodomy is a physical act, not a state of being.

>>27695

do you wear you cover your hair ?

>>27699

>>Muslims for Progressive Values

Transexuals wanting to be accepted by the Muslim communities are shooting themselves in the foot by associating themselves with the lgbt community.

>>27695

>I don't see the issue of wearing a female disguise and having sex with men

>my wig, makeup and feel feels make me female

dumb troll

>>27696

How come OP didn't respond or add anything to any post except the "trolls" talking about her gender though? Seems a bit fishy imo.

And if OP is going to identify as trans and then say she got banned from the mosque then it's pretty understandable that people would think the two are related.

>>27708

Because Undyne doesn't have to answer such questions. If you say you are a man, would you respond to anyone saying you weren't? If so, why would you? Do you feel the need to defend your manhood? Why?

Undyne came to this community asking for help. Screaming "sinner" or "sodomite" or "kafr" at Undyne doesn't help and it makes us no better than Christians. If you have nothing in the way of help, then don't reply. Hide the thread, name filter "Undyne" in your Options. Our job here is not to drive people away from Islam, no matter who they are or what our personal feelings may be. If that means showing them that there are accepting communities out there, then that's what we need to be doing.

I would do the same if someone came here and felt they were out of place in the community because they're White. I would give them information on White Muslim communities that they can get in touch with to help them feel more included. Islam is for everyone. Everyone. The strong as well as the weak, the healthy as well as the sick. We turn away nobody and I find Undyne's Imam's behavior reprehensible and would love to speak to him myself and correct his error.

>>27709

I have given many times proofs that cross dressing and sex change is not allowed and recorgnized in Islam to Undyne. However, Undyne is stubborn. I think I discussed with him thrice, on and off, and he would never accept that it is not allowed in Islam and insist, even if I showed him proofs, that it is legal in Islam.

Ibn Hajar said: For men to imitate women and women to imitate men, deliberately and by choice, is haraam according to scholarly consensus.

Thirdly: the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade hermaphrodites to enter upon women, if they pay attention to women and their charms, and he ordered that they be banned from living among people so as to guard against their evil.

Now read again. It is haram ACCORDING TO SCHOLARLY CONSENSUS.

At-Tirmidhi (2167) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).” Classed as hasan by al-Albaani.

Ahmad narrated in his Musnad (27224) from Abu Basrah al-Ghifaari, the companion of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “I asked my Lord, may He be glorified and exalted, for four things, and He granted me three of them and withheld one from me. I asked Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, not to cause my ummah to agree on misguidance, and He granted me that.”

We should always keep fighting against those kind of people who will try to deform religion even in front of proofs because they will destroy it from the inside if we do not defend it. Or if Undyne still doesn't accept that it is haram, and better himself, ignore his threads and let them sink until he goes away or changes his mind.

I don't have anything against you Undyne and I hope you did not feel personally attacked.

>>27711

It has been argued, quite successfully I might add, that a transgender person is not a man imitating a woman by choice. It is a genuine condition that we have known about for thousands of years, written about by philosophers and scholars, as well as physicians and healers. Treatments and procedures have been also discussed and used for - again - thousands of years.

Yet people seem to treat it like it's some magical new liberal western innovation. Since the 1930s we have grown in knowledge enough to actually be able to treat transgender people with the proper therapy, medication, and yes surgery. You have to make a decision based on the culmination of human knowledge. Allah didn't want us to just stop thinking when Qur'an was given to us. Science, medicine, philosophy, and knowledge must always increase. So when we find a way of dealing with the challenge of a transgender Muslim in a safe and humane manner, we don't look back to an ancient scholar of law. We look to medicine, both mental and physical. We (Muslims) have always treated the mentally ill with dignity and comfort, unlike the pagan tribes.

The only bidah here is turning our back on a Muslim in need because some man-made warcry of "degeneracy" tells us to.

>>27712

I agree when you say that it is a genuine condition that needs help. However you should not buy into the religion of LGBT and turn this illness into something which should be accepted as normal.

It is a mental illness which should be cured, he should not be treated as a woman but as someone who needs help to feel confident in his masculine identity. And yes he obtained those feelings which make him imitate women , not by choice, just like a gay is attracted to men not by choice, because mental illnesses aren't chosen. When I fall sick I never chose to. I never said he chose to be a transsexual. I just said he should not fall into LGBTism, refuse any critisicism and arguments against his point of view, deform Islam and infect it with his ideologies.

Of course we should treat him in a humane and safe manner. But what do you expect me to do when he refuses to aknowledge that perhaps, he may be wrong, when he is stubborn, and when he tries to deform Islam ?

>>27712

>because some man-made warcry of "degeneracy" tells us to.

This "man-made warcry of "degeneracy"." was held by the prophets, by the way.

"He said, 'I am indeed, of those who disapprove with severe anger and fury your (this evil) action (of sodomy). My Lord! Save me and my family from what they do.'

Al-Qur'an 26:160-171

Be it against homosexual degeneracy or transexuality

>>27713

>>27714

I always thought Undyne, and other transgender Muslims, would do well to perhaps move to Iran to get closer to the Muslim community without having to live in shame or fear. I'm quite fond of the way Iran handles it.

https://qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/

The Iranian government doesn’t recognize being trans as a category per se, rather they see trans individuals as people with psychosexual problems, and so provide them with a medical solution

All of us should be afforded the dignity of standing with our brothers and sisters in the greater ummah without fear of being stabbed in the back by our own.

>>27714

Though it pleases me to no end that we can have this discussion like with civility. It's always refreshing to know that there are other adults around.

>>27716

>would do well to perhaps move to Iran

Would be a good start, he was a shi'i as well. (marxists often prefer shiism)

But imo we should crackdown on his blatant provocative LGBT propaganda threads, they end up lowering the quality of this board.

As akhi >>27711 refuted him many times before and made it clear, may Allah reward him. And I pray that Allah guides me, you and undyne ameen.

>>27723

>I'm lurking right now

Except you haven't read the thread or you'd already know the answer to your questions. To "lurk" means you're reading, not that you're sitting idle staring at your feet.

>>27712

Arguing for it to be accepted as a mental illness is quite different from what the lgbt cult wants and the zanadiqa at "mpvusa.org" linked to earlier.

>>27707

>(Attack the argument, not the poster.)

The OP thinks he's a female because he declares it, so he's allowed to have sex with men because he identifies as female. And you want us to "attack the argument" instead of simply calling out this troll?

Are the mods here pro-LGBT? I know they are "liberal" so I guess they have to be

>>27739

That's how it works. If you can't respond to the argument, then don't respond at all. It is stupidly easy to not hit reply.

>Are the mods here pro-LGBT?

The mods here are pro-not letting the board degenerate into a series of "NO U" posts and name calling and personal attacks. Personal politics have nothing to do with how the board is ran.

>>27741

Completely different. Transgender != Homosexual

Also, I wouldn't consider groups like ISIS as a good metric for how Muslims should act.

>>27741

>lobotomizes the mentally ill

>forced castration

>eugenics

>holocaust

>human experiments

If isis so were to exist for another 300 years they would still not have had enough time to even come close to western states and their track records of "humanitarianism". Better luck next time kafir.

>>27743

completely false, any man who has sexual relations with men, whether it be a homosexual or a transgender, are both to be executed in shariah

>>27745

You're talking about the physical act. You can't just go around killing trans people. Do you have evidence of Undyne having homosexual intercourse + 3 other witnesses to back it up?

Didn't think so.

Undyne, I remember visiting this board a really long time ago, and I remember your flag. Are you perhaps talking about the al-Nour mosque if we're in the same city?

>>27746

if they admit it and brag about it, you don't really need witnesses, do you?

>>27743

>Transgender != Homosexual

vast majority are gay and embrace the gay pride lifestyle.

>>27740

>can't call a homosexual tranny promoting homosex a "dumb troll" because of feel feels

Why doesn't this standard apply to insults against Quranists, Christians, trump supporters and /pol/ posters. I see plenty of personal insults go unchallenged. If you're going to protect homos/transvestites you should coddle every other heretic. No? The board has word filter insults built in against Christians for example.

>>27748

>The board has word filter insults built in against Christians

No, it doesn't. And, no, I don't expect coddling of anyone. What I expect is for people to behave like adults instead of throwing around pejoratives when they get their feelings hurt. This isn't /pol/ or /b/ and I will not accept such behavior. My mind will not be changed on that. Many have tried to change my mind over the last 4 years, but I remain resolute.

Act like a child, get treated like one.

>>27751

So even if someone is obviously trolling, recommending haram things and acting foolish we can't simply call them out on it because it might hurt their feelings? We have to talk like robots? Ok. Lets see how that standard plays out…

>>The board has word filter insults built in against Christians

>>No, it doesn't.

Mushrikeen or "trini" and other christian terms were filtered previously, making fun of Christians. Are they not filtered anymore?

See "t.rinitarian" turns to mushrikeen. Which is an insult of sorts.

Trinity

T.rinity

>>27754

If I'm not mistaken trinity was earlier turned into 3 in 1 body wash, I hope they bring that back.

>>27753

>>27754

Forgot about that one.

>>27753

>if someone is obviously trolling

Then call them out on it. But, this is a board for adults and I will not let it degenerate into childish name-calling and pejorative slinging. The #1 rule of this board is: If you wouldn't do it in a mosque in real life, then don't do it here.

If you can't figure out what that means without being told every little tiny permutation, then perhaps you should lurk for a while.

>>27769

>The #1 rule of this board is: If you wouldn't do it in a mosque in real life, then don't do it here.

Then why does that guy get a free pass every single time he posts bulls**t thread after thread? Pretty sure I saw another thread of his where, after a few comments, he posted a comment that directly insulted the Quran and then the mods deleted it afterwards. Not even any warnings?

>>27772

That's really vague. Besides, you don't know what happens behind the scenes. Most bans don't show and reasons for deletions aren't generally given.

Undyne, if you happen to be where al-Nour is, lets have a visit, since I've never been to a mosque.

>>27739

I'm not a troll… And I don't want to be a sexual deviant,I only want to be a devout and good spiritually righteous person in the example of Khadijah. What are you suggesting, that I should be celibate, that my relationship with my boyfriend is somehow wrong or invalid? :\

>>27807

I've never heard of al-Nour mosque, and we probably don't live in the same city.

>>27825

If you're not married, you should be celibate. That goes for everyone.

>>27825

Ah, not around the mountains then.

>>27830

Pretty much this.

>>27825

>What are you suggesting, that I should be celibate, that my relationship with my boyfriend is somehow wrong or invalid?

Yes it definitely is, since it's a homosexual relation, even if you think you're a woman, that is not allowed.

I think Undyne's OP has been answered reasonably. Locking this thread. If you wish to discuss Undyne, take it to >>>/b/ or >>>/r9k/.