/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

She wasn't always a good spokeswoman, but now that we've been forced into the democrat camp she's our defacto big name.

If things had turned out differently maybe Grover Norquist could announce his conversion and be the leader for conservative Muslims.

>>22524

Do you think her political views are compatible with Islamic theology?

>>22527

Yes, why wouldn't they be?

Do you think part of Islam is caring about what non-Muslim kids do in a non-Muslim country?

If the USA would like to have Muslim morality police and sharia referees they can let us know at anytime. It seems that large segments of the US society would prefer to use our community as a punching bag. We're not going to champion dying Murcan values as we get suckerpunched by "conservatives" on a minutely basis. We're going to focus on our own community needs.

Like I said iat, Robert Spencer was blogging about "creeping Sharia" as his country slowly but steadily legalized gay marriage. "Conservatives" have shown us their priorities.

>>22527

I think I know where this is going. We're not the nanny for your kids.

Your kids can marry whoever or… whatever they want. We don't care. We care more about whether polygyny can be legally recognized.

If you want to experience Islamic values in the US you should live in a muslim community and/or send your kids to an Islamic school. All the muslims who wanted to help you people "conserve" things look stupid now. I was one of those people, I look stupid now. The muslims who were lifelong democrat? Their stock is very high right now in the community - as it should be - because they were right and we were wrong.

>>22523

Bad example for the sisters

Wrapped up in the issues of the Dunya

Proclaims to be Feminist (should be enough right here)

Honestly, I don't see her much different from how I see other Liberal/Secular/Commie type Kaffirs. I might be angered even more that she uses Islam in her rhetoric.

>>22615

How does communism oppose Islam? I assumed the original Caliphate was similar to anarcho-syndicalism.

>>22616

>>22616

Communists are against religion because they think every religion is like christianity. I was first a christian and then a communist before I reverted to Islam. So was Bilal Philips. False equivalence and Soviet Empire larping that's butthurt about Afghanistan is a bitch. Back in the day Communists respected Islam but not anymore.

>We are told that among the Daghestan peoples the Sharia is of great importance. We have also been informed that the enemies of Soviet power are spreading rumours that it has banned the Sharia.

>I have been authorized by the Government of the Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic to state here that these rumours are false. The Government of Russia gives every people the full right to govern itself on the basis of its laws and customs.

>The Soviet Government considers that the Sharia, as common law, is as fully authorized as that of any other of the peoples inhabiting Russia.

>If the Daghestan people desire to preserve their laws and customs, they should be preserved.

Joseph Stalin

When I made a thread as a muslim at /leftypol/ just the other day in solidarity against /pol/ cancer I was banned, and called an "intersectionalist." Intersectionalism and anti-imperialism are both legitimate and two fronts Muslims should be able to work with leftists, Sarsour knows that. However modern communists are islamophobic like the larger society and are scared shitless by muslim anti-imperialists today. So scared they're willing to entertain a false equivalence between radical anti-imperialist groups and Anglo-Zionist hyper-Imperialism. They totally lack a materialist analysis of the situation in other words and are simply responsive to various buzzwords and aesthetics rather than aims of these groups.

>>22615

The rightwing would hurt us in dunya and the leftwing would hurt us in akhira.

As for her Palestinian position, I also support a one-state solution. Palestinians need to become Israeli citizens at this point and we need to accept Israel won the war and can never be challenged unless the US becomes too weak to project power effectively. This is a very different world than 15 years ago, we have to worry about a lot more than Palestine. The entire Ummah is under attack.

>>22616

A basic study of Aqidah and a question like this would never be asked. A person like Linda Sarsur would be warned against and not supported.

Refer to Surah an-Nisa ayat 60-65 (farther even) to start. The Munafiq always tried to find judgement and rulings apart from Allah and his Messenger (peace be upon him). Many examples exist within the Seerah. This is forbidden and will lead you away from Islam.

Any Muslim supporting and favoring a secular form of jurisprudence should be warned against. It is one of the signs of the Munafiq. May Allah protect us.

>>22647

Linda Sarsour doesn't register as a perceived threat from my view. Is she supporting gay stuff for muslim countries? Not that I see. Is she supporting shia scum? Quite the opposite. She married a muslim man and they have three muslim kids, alhamdulillah. Linda Sarsour doesn't have an axe to grind against the accepted fiqh, aqidah, or any other facet of Islam. At least not to my knowledge.

We don't have any responsibility to enjoin the good and forbid the evil to non-muslims outside of calling to Islam. Even if they are arch-conservatives we know that's still meaningless without tawheed and iman. And in this country we definitely should not line up with the "values voters" who want to exterminate all muslims.

>>22653

>10 weeks of forcing the employer to pay for your maternity vacation

what does that have to do with sharia

>no interest

there's interest, it's just more roundabout

>ur worrying about women driving

sharia doesn't ban driving cars though.

She's defending things that aren't even supported by sharia while ignoring things that it allows. Doesn't make sense.

>>22661

>what does that have to do with sharia

No one said it did.

>there's interest, it's just more roundabout

Nope, this is not /pol/. Reality doesn't change because you can't into basic Islamic financial law.

>sharia doesn't ban driving cars though.

No one said it did.

>>22661

>maternity vacation

You've never had a baby, have you…

>>22649

She aligns herself with disbelievers and ideologies that openly oppose Islam. This has made her ignorant enough to wish people "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Kwanza" on her show. She openly supports gay marriage. She proclaims to be a feminist. The whole liberal/sjw/communist idea of "equality" is refuted in the Quran and Sunnah. A disbeliever is not equal to a believer, a man excels over a woman and is the leader of the household, a pious man is superior to a an unrighteous man, etc. Her real concerns are issues apart from Islam and is actively attempting to enjoin evil with good.

She should definitely be warned against.

>>22617

/leftypol/'s main influence, Murray Bookchin, was very pro-Israel/pro-Zionism and supported western imperialism against Muslim nations. Granted, he was an anarchist, not a Marxist.

>>22647

Communism doesn't have to be secular though. There is a strong history of communism in the Muslim World.

>>22679

>main influence

>zionist anarchist

Wtf, I hate /leftypol/ now.

>>22680

>There is a strong history of communism in the Muslim World

What are you referring to? Irrelevant similarities you perceive between the rule of the four rightly guided Caliphs and communism?

>Communism doesn't have to be secular though

No idea what you are talking about. It is forbidden to seek law outside of the Shariah. This is major sin. Are you trying to say Shariah can be communism? I can't make any sense of these statements.

Communism IS secular and a Muslim has no reason to seek it over what we have been given.

>>22682

>What are you referring to?

Muslim participation in the Bolshevik Revolution, a strong Communist Party in the Ottoman Empire, PFLP, South Yemen, Gaddafi. Even the Republic of Sale was proto-socialist.

>>22684

>>22684

>Muslim participation in the Bolshevik Revolution

According to the scholars I take knowledge from it can be permissable to support secular leaders/movements in non-muslim countries. Put aside the "material conditions" the "class structures" and the "dialectics" that may or may not have existed. The Bolsheviks overturned a Christian state. That's fine. Now let's assume your marxian analysis is true. Why should muslims support the overturning of a muslim state and its replacement with a non-muslim state? That goes against commonsense, our intellectual tradition, and most importantly God's commands.

>Gaddafi

Gaddafi was a kaffir kleptocrat that tried to change the Quran and used to kidnap and rape Libyan women when he wasn't paying Beyonce millions for private concerts. You're not helping your cause with that one.

>>22687

>Now let's assume your marxian analysis is true. Why should muslims support the overturning of a muslim state and its replacement with a non-muslim state?

What if that communist state is also an Islamic one? I don't see how the two are opposed at all. Muhammad emphasized communalism and federalism. There are Hadith which state all property is owned by Allah and thus can't be "private" in a capitalistic sense. Also, communism emphasizes Islam's teaching that all people are equalized once they embrace Islam.

>Gaddafi was a kaffir kleptocrat that tried to change the Quran

lol source?

>>22678

I see where you're coming from and I respect your view. My key concern with jarh wa tadeel though is the people that purport to speak on behalf of the deen, give fatawa, etc. Not lay muslims. But if a lay muslim becomes so prominent in the society as Sarsour then yes, Muslims have the right to warn her and criticize her if they think she's going off the rails. Pray for her too, please.

>>22696

>lol source?

You find this funny? Qaddafi died because of this. He was a notorious enemy of Islam and thought his Green Book replaced the Quran. He's the one leader that even the most "liberal" scholars told the people had to be not only deposed but killed. Qaddafi denied the hadith at one point before recanting after a delegation of scholars told him they'd be forced to call for Jihad against him. Ben Ali and Mubarak were just bad sinful tyrannical Muslims (fasiqoon and tawaghet), they weren't apostates like Qadaffi.

And the Caliphate was the first welfare state, not anything remotely commie. We don't mind having super rich Muslims since 2.5% of their annual equity is literally ours. Why do you think a muslim worth $1 mil should be compelled to pay more than $25,000 a year directly to the poor? Is that not reasonable and beneficial enough?

And why would we want to liquidate the muslim "kulaks", who pray and fast with us as a class when we can liquidate kulaks from other religions? Or better yet, preserve the status of kulaks from other religions and tax them heavily?

BTW: If people try to claim your assets by force - ie steal your sh*t - and you defend yourself, that's jihad since you're protecting yourself, your family, and the community (your future zakat) from thieves.

>>22696

>What if that communist state is also an Islamic one?

Think about this statement. Without submission to Allah and then taking the Quran and Sunnah as legislation they can't be Islamic.

I don't understand how you are getting this confused. Similarities aside, we have what is greater and no need to associate or enjoin with something that rejects the main purpose of all human beings, the worship and submission to Allah.

>>22684

None of those examples mean anything to me.

>>22703

Why does zakat have to be 2.5%? Why can't it be 100%?

>And why would we want to liquidate the muslim "kulaks", who pray and fast with us as a class when we can liquidate kulaks from other religions? Or better yet, preserve the status of kulaks from other religions and tax them heavily?

Because capitalism can never be halal. Those kulaks exploit other Muslims.

>>22710

>Because capitalism can never be halal.

sure but communism and any dimension of marxism/leftism are infinitely worse, both practically and spiritually; far more haram than capitalism.

>>22713

>both practically and spiritually; far more haram than capitalism.

Show me Qur'anic verses or Ahadith which support this view.

I'll wait.

>>22710

>Why does zakat have to be 2.5%? Why can't it be 100%?

It can be. If it's voluntary.

Why is it not mandatory?

Because: It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error. ' 33-36

Also because Allah could have chosen Karl Marx, that ridiculous Zionist Anarchist in New England, or that failed milkman named Max Stirner everyone over there pretends to read to be a prophet. But Allah didn't.

>Because capitalism can never be halal. Those kulaks exploit other Muslims.

If a muslim feels exploited then is not the earth created by Allah spacious and wide enough for him to emigrate somewhere else? Or do the muslims not have rights to fight their exploiters because oppression is worse than slaughter? So then why could a muslim not relocate or fight against the exploiter as a muslim? Why does a muslim need to be guided by a vanguard of kids inspired by Hegel when his religion already teaches him what to do?

>>22610

>central asia

>kurdish

>>22717

Please explain how capitalism is more consistent with Islamic teachings than communism or democratic confederalism. I assumed the early Caliphate (what Muhammad established) was essentially democratic confederalist.

>>22523

she is pro lgbt so no

>>22835

No compulsion in religion. Why do Muslims care what non-believers do in their beds?

>>22835

There's a difference between saying kufs in a kuf country should be able to do what they want and saying lgbt is halal. Has she ever said lgbt is halal?

>>22836

This.

>>22836

We don't care what non-believers do. What we do care about is when a Muslim claims it to be acceptable. I see no evidence that Sarsur has said as such, so it doesn't matter.

>>22839

Anarchism is technically a form of government though.

>>22844

Agreed on the technicality, but we really should be more anarchistic in our approach to things so long as we live in countries that are non-Islamic or not a proper Caliphate. This doesn't mean to disobey or create mischief, but we control our level of conformity.

As much as I applaud that the US is finally electing Muslims to public offices, such as Congress, part of me feels that Muslims should not be running for those offices. We should keep our governance internal to our communities.

>>22848

Anarchism isn't just about lack of government, it's also about the abolition of hierarchy. So, you can't have a gendered society (like Islam advocates) and be anarchistc.

>>22850

>In the west they have already stopped gendering society.

This is completely false.

>>22864

>>22910

I'm not watching a SJW with blue hair talk for 30 mins. You're gonna have to make your own case, SJWbro.

>>22913

Why does Islam hate feminism? Doesn't the Qur'an say men and women are equal?

>>22914

And women have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise. 2:228

>>22523

She certainly represents you mudslides well.

>>22838

we should not involve ourselves with the matters of the kufaar

neither the left or the right are our allies but both are an equal open enemy and the minimum we owe them is complete rejection of their values

Who are the best US spokesmen/women?

>>22523

she is a zionist agent to spread islamic feminism DONT LISTEN TO HER SHE IS EVIL AND KAFIR

>>23292

Takfiri get out

>>23294

hmm I dont like the fact that he is next to one of the biggest murderers of muslims and giving a speech

Read recently she started asking for donations for hurrican harvey victims, then the fine print says the donations will not go to any victims but to political efforts after the hurricane is over…

So I'm guessing she's gonna use the money to fund her political activities, yet she is using the hurricane as a pretext.

>>23312

The jewish media hates her because she supports the Palestinian struggle.

>>23311

I know that feeling but I think it was right and he did a good job. In the US we all pay taxes and we all need to ask forgiveness for that. I think of it as the brother trying to make the best of our situation.

>>22680

Islam has it's own socio-economic system. If you have to say that Islam is compatible with Communism then Islam is also compatible with Fascism, Capitalism, Democracy, Libertarianism etc.

>>22684

Gaddafi (RIP) was a fascist cocaine addict, you retard

>>26094

(Btw I’m not defending Gaddafis personality here)

>>26094

>you retard

That is not necessary.

>>26096

maybe so but Im hesitant whenever somebody brings in parallels of Islam and whatever their agenda seems to be.

>>26098

I know, but the insult isn't really necessary. Let's try to keep it civil, ya know?

What does /islam/ think of Linda Sarsur? Is she a good spokeswoman for the Muslim community?

I dont know her.

Look for Dr.Zakir Naik.

>>26101

As you wish

>>22523

> Is she a good spokeswoman for the Muslim community?

She seems to have a very modernist and liberal bend to her, which is not compatible with Islam proper. But very good for exciting her feminist audience.

“If you want to come to the march you are coming with the understanding that you respect a woman's right to choose,” Linda Sarsour, a Brooklyn-born Palestinian-American Muslim racial justice and civil-rights activist, and one of four co-chairwomen of the march, said in an interview on Tuesday."

I was sympathetic to her during the Trump hysteria lastyear. But now I am not. Trump and Sarsour are both a lot of hot air but at the end of the day Sarsour is some radical that makes soft takfir on muslim rulers and runs interference for the ajami safawi project whereas Trump is a discrete friend to muslim rulers - except for his recent hot air about Jerusalem.

Sarsour was happy when Obama winked at American muslims as he set the sunni world on fire. Trump is rhetorically hard on muslims and distant from American muslims but in my analysis is better for most muslims abroad - compared to Obama (malicious) and Bush (ignorant).

>>26173

I'm not surprised that another popular american "sunni" figure turned out to be a shu'ubi stooge.

>>22653

>Defends Salafist Apostates

TOTAL SCUM

>>31059

Why is a non muslim making takfir on salafists?

>>31066

Time for a rule update.

>>31066

There you go: https://8ch.net/islam/rules.html

>>31059

necrobumping courtesy of an assad fanboy

>>31066

Your right I went too far. I apologise. It just makes my blood boil how they destroy holy sights around Mecca, fund mosques with their horrible ideology in Europe and are waging war against Yemen. They destroy the reputation of Muslim's everywhere and many people don't understand that Salafism is not mainstream Islam.

>>22523

she is cringeworthy and probably on ZOG payroll

>>31099

>Your right I went too far. I apologise. It just makes my blood boil how they destroy holy sights around Mecca, fund mosques with their horrible ideology in Europe and are waging war against Yemen. They destroy the reputation of Muslim's everywhere and many people don't understand that Salafism is not mainstream Islam.

I think you are exaggerating about their influence. Besides, you shouldn't confuse salafi islam with saudi arabia's foreign policy. Maybe you have been deceived by iranian propaganda, as that is the case with many non-muslims who delve into middle eastern politics. I've seen many people accuse others of being salafi, simply for practicing the 5 pillars, and even if we might disagree with our salafi brothers, we can never allow a disbeliever to insult them.

>>31107

I can see why that would infuriate you. What do you think about literalist interpretations of Islam?

Or better yet what do you think of say a gay muslim? Can they leave a good Muslim life if they are good to people and believe themselves right with Allah?

Is the person a sinner in your eyes or are they born that way? I'm just curious because while I can get behind having faith; I can't tolerate discrimination of people; so I am eternally in conflict with people who treat gay people badly.

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. I have no idea what your attitude is towards gays. I'm just trying to learn and resolve conflicts within myself.

If you judge the Islamic religion based on it's views on homosexuality, then you should know every sect of Islam rejects homosexuality and sodomy, considers it a sin and unnatural. It's not about any 'literalist interpretations of Islam', but the quran is clear on this.

And to answer your question, a 'gay' muslim would still be considered muslim in any case, and if he sins by committing sodomy then he is a very grave sinner muslim which should be stopped.

>>31110

Ok I've derailed the thread enough. Thank you for your reply.

>>31109

Sometimes there is the idea that Muslims who sin can no longer be Muslim; but that idea died a long time ago. We ALL sin. It happens. We try very hard to not sin, but we are literally the imperfect result of a perfect creation. We must strive to not sin, but we can't help ourselves. This is why Allah forgives us when we ask.

>>31113

there is a very great difference between sinning and sinning for the pleasure of sin

sometimes we sin because we think that an error will take us beyond our actual state, to something better ahead, far from error; but the ☻s sin for the pleasure of sin alone, their sin seeks nothing more than the promotion of their station, nothing more than sin for "sin's sake"

sin does not make anyone not a muslim, does not do for those who recognize the error and abandon it or the one who is in the process of recognizing, our god is merciful; but not for the one who knows the mistake and still remains wrong, because this one enjoys the error and wants to continue to enjoy him

>>31113

>We ALL sin.

Lol.. I hate this so much. There are people who most definitely sin but they are also praying 6 times daily. My first run ins with Muslims were two classmates of mine. He was an immigrant from the french colonial coast and he was a really nice guy who despite hanging out with druggies maintained his morals suprisingly well.

The other was a syrian whos family fled from Hafez Asad decades ago.. He was smoking pot by the 7th grade and drinking and smoking like any other American. This wasn't because he had a hard economic situation or anything.. he enjoyed it and was very popular for his drug use. In fact I just checked his twitter and hes sharing jihad memes. How ingrateful. Not only is he a bad Muslim but he is a bad American..

The "we all sin" buzzword is an excuse used by bad muslim.

I cannot believe the hubris of some people.

>>22523

Nope. Hell, either side doesn't care. We got "conservatives" who think we're going to set the clock back to the 15th century with Sharia law (and they think it's barbaric) and we got the "liberals" who are just using people like her to get votes. I mean, both sides are damn well fine in accepting degeneracy….if they really do care about Islam, they'd distance themselves with the alphabet soup group or the "feminists"

>>31119

Your anecdotes are meaningless.

>>31119

a muslim sinner is better than a pious kaffir

>>31127

There are muslim sinners in hell, and pious non-muslims in heaven.

>>31135

>non-Muslim

>in heaven

lol no

>>31135

>There are muslim sinners in hell,

Only temporarily, then they will be taken out by their friends, relatives or other intercessors and dunked in the runoff of paradise to be healed.

>and pious non-muslims in heaven.

No such thing as a good non muslim, every single kaffir's good deeds will go to waste. No matter if they are mother theresa or ghandi or dalai lama or bill gates all will pray for annihilation.

"And verily, it has been revealed to you and to those who (were) before you, if you associate (with Allah) surely, will become worthless your deeds and you will surely be among the losers." [az-Zumar 39:65]

>>31140

>Only temporarily, then they will be taken out by their friends, relatives or other intercessors and dunked in the runoff of paradise to be healed.

citation for this? Do you mean Barzakh? Why would it be like hell for muslims and where does it say it can change from hell to heaven?

>No such thing as a good non muslim, every single kaffir's good deeds will go to waste. No matter if they are mother theresa or ghandi or dalai lama or bill gates all will pray for annihilation.

Do you mean a righteous monotheist would still go to hell because he never heard of the Quran, never said the shahada and never bowed to mecca during his daily prayers?

>>31147

>citation for this? Do you mean Barzakh? Why would it be like hell for muslims and where does it say it can change from hell to heaven?

It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah will say: ‘The angels have interceded, the Prophets have interceded and there is no one left but the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.’ Then He will take a handful from Hell, and will bring out people who never did any good and who will have turned into charcoal. He will throw them into a river on the outskirts of Paradise that is called the River of Life, and they will emerge like seeds in the silt carried by a flood. … They will emerge like pearls with jewels around their necks, and the people of Paradise will recognize them. These are the ones ransomed by Allaah, whom Allaah admitted to Paradise with no good deed that they did or sent on ahead. Then He will say: ‘Enter Paradise, and whatever you see is yours.’ They will say: ‘Our Lord, You have given us what You have never given to anyone else in creation.’ He will say: ‘You will have something better than that with Me.’ They will say, ‘O Lord, what could be better than this?’ He will say, ‘My good pleasure, for I will never be angry with you again.’”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (7002) and Muslim (183).

It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When the people of Paradise enter Paradise and the people of Hell enter Hell, Allaah will say: ‘Whoever had a mustard-seed’s weight of faith in his heart, bring him out.’ So they will bring him out, and they will come out like burned skeletons, and they will turn into charcoal. They will be thrown into the River of Life, then they will grow like seeds growing in the silt left by a flood.”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do you not see how they emerge yellow and curved?”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6192) and Muslim (184).

>Do you mean a righteous monotheist would still go to hell because he never heard of the Quran, never said the shahada and never bowed to mecca during his daily prayers?

That's for Allah (swt) to judge not us, but we can say someone is legally kaffir based on the outwardly. That's why such a person would not be buried in a muslim graveyard for example.

>>31148

Thanks for the citations, but those imply that any one can be saved, not only muslims. So I stand by what I said, some non-muslims are in heaven, while some muslims are in hell, who and to what degree, we cannot know, that's for God to judge.

>That's for Allah (swt) to judge not us

Yes, if you held this attitude initially you would not have condemned all non-muslims.

>but we can say someone is legally kaffir based on the outwardly.

no.

There's a difference between a righteous monotheist (a jew/christian/pagan), perhaps someone who never heard of Islam or never bothered to study it. And someone who is a willful apostate, someone who actively attacks Islam or tries to subvert it, they are not the same type of "kaffir" so cool your jets.

>>31149

Besides…forgive my naivete, but wasn't it mentioned that everyone will be in Heaven anyways after their stint in Hell? Granted, they'd be in the lower rungs of Heaven but still be out?

>>31149

>someone who never heard of Islam

I highly, highly doubt that's possible.

>never bothered to study it

That's not an excuse.

>>31149

>but those imply that any one can be saved

No, since those are for people with tawheed (monotheism).

>Yes, if you held this attitude initially you would not have condemned all non-muslims.

I have to, since I don't know what's in their hearts, the default position is that they are kuffar, not secretly muslims. Same reason why we assume every muslim is a true muslim and not a munafiq secret kaffir.

>There's a difference between a righteous monotheist (a jew/christian/pagan), perhaps someone who never heard of Islam or never bothered to study it. And someone who is a willful apostate, someone who actively attacks Islam or tries to subvert it, they are not the same type of "kaffir" so cool your jets.

Maybe a difference in the level of punishment, but you will need to prove that from the quran. For example, pharaohs civilians were oppressed and feared pharaoh and obeyed him, they will still go to hell. The average person doesn't like to use the gift of thinking and just follows his ppl in power, but that has eternal consequences.

>Besides…forgive my naivete, but wasn't it mentioned that everyone will be in Heaven anyways after their stint in Hell? Granted, they'd be in the lower rungs of Heaven but still be out?

Only sinner muslims such as drinkers, fornicators ect… because they have a mustard seed of tawhid. Unlike the other pagans in hell.

>>31155

>Only sinner muslims such as drinkers

That's one of my big ones. Before converting to Islam, I spent about 15 years at the bottom of a vodka bottle daily. After all this time, I still fight the urge every day. It's amazing how strong the grip of alcohol can be.

>>31157

15 years in satan's domain.. and you still succeeded that is amazing, by the will of Allah you will keep up the fight until the end ameen

>>31155

The verses you quoted don't support what you want them to support. The people in hell that were saved allegedly 'did no good deeds' in their life, simply taking shahada is a good deed, if anything the verse is specifically about non-muslims.

>I have to, since I don't know what's in their hearts

A person is born a muslim, with a sense of God built into them, you don't know if they lose their sense just like you don't know which muslims are actually kuffar.

And anyway it's God who judges people, not you.

>Maybe a difference in the level of punishment, but you will need to prove that from the quran.

The hadith you quoted earlier already support my point and disprove yours. None of them say that the people Allah saved in hell were muslims, but that they did no good deeds in their life and had an inkling of monotheism in their hearts.

>>31157

I'm very lucky I had nerdy friends who shunned alcohol and partying growing up. I never acquired the taste for it. I've tried it a few times and find it gross. Unless the taste is masked with fruity soda or something, but either way I will pray for you to continue winning against it

>>31177

Mashallah

>>31178

Oh, I had nerdy friends too. I was chess club president in high school and Latin club vice president. Not exactly a "chad". I didn't party at all. My father died when I was 16 and I was angry about it for many, many years and that's what allowed me to fall into alcohol and let its claws dig deeper and deeper into me over the years.

>>31178

>allegedly 'did no good deeds' in their life

It's a hyperbole, other uses of 'no good deed' in hadith are:

<the Prophet (ﷺ) told us of a man who never did any good deed but he used to

lend money to people to help them through their troubles; Allah (ﷻ) forgave him as a result.

<the Prophet (ﷺ) told us of a man who never did any good deed and asked to be cremated; when asked why, he said he did it out of fear of Allah (ﷻ) [but was ignorant] so Allah (ﷻ) forgave him due to that fear.

<the Prophet (ﷺ) told us of a man who never did a good deed but removed a thorny branch from the road [protecting people from harm], so Allah (ﷻ) forgave him because of it.

As you can see, they actually did a good deed, after living a life of no good deeds. That's what is meant here. It just means a sinner who believes in tawheed.

>A person is born a muslim, with a sense of God built into them, you don't know if they lose their sense just like you don't know which muslims are actually kuffar.

They are born muslim as babies, but then follow their parents/society's misguidance. It's true that I don't know whats in their hearts, so that's why I have to judge with the outward actions and sayings. And we can say generally, christians and jews will go to hell, pagans will go to hell ect.. as the quran states.

Denying this makes you a kaffir.

>And anyway it's God who judges people, not you.

The final judgement is for Allah (swt), but everyone needs earthly judgements for practical purposes, for legal matters in islamic life.

>The hadith you quoted earlier already support my point and disprove yours. None of them say that the people Allah saved in hell were muslims, but that they did no good deeds in their life and had an inkling of monotheism in their hearts.

First you didn't even know that hadith existed before I posted it when you asked me to prove my claim, now you act like you know what it means? What arrogance, fear Allah. Pagans have NO inkling of tawheed.

"Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun (polytheists) will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of created beings." - (al-bayyinah 98:6)

>>31178

This is the understanding of the ulema not random laymen.

What is proven in the verses of the Qur’aan and the Sunnah of the Prophet, and on which the righteous salaf was agreed is that these – the sinners among those who believe in Tawheed (the oneness of Allaah) – fall into three categories:

The first category: People who have many hasanaat (good deeds) to their credit, which outweigh these sayi’aat (bad deeds). Allaah will forgive them for their bad deeds and admit them to Paradise. The Fire will never touch them, as a kindness and blessing from Allaah.

The second category: people whose hasanaat and sayi’aat are equal, so their sayi’aat are enough to keep them away from Paradise, but their hasanaat are enough to save them from Hell. These are the people of al-A’raaf (a wall with elevated places) whom Allaah says will stand between Paradise and Hell as long as Allaah wills, then they will be granted permission to enter Paradise, as Allaah says after telling us of the entrance of the people of Paradise to Paradise and the people of Hell to Hell.

The third category: People who will meet Allaah persisting in committing major sins and acts of immorality, so their sayi’aat will outweigh their hasanaat. These are the ones who will deserve to enter Hell in a manner commensurate with their sins. Some of them will be seized by the Fire as far as their ankles, some up to mid-calf, some up to their knees, and for some only the mark of sujood will be spared. These are the ones whom Allaah will permit to be brought forth from the Fire because of the intercession of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

More info:

http://islam.worldofislam.info/index.php/component/content/article?id=790:ruling-on-a-believer-who-commits-some-sins

>>22523

>"We have no place as American Muslims targeted in the [US] to oppose another marginalised group…, which includes LGBT communities." - Linda Sarsour

"Same people who push anti-immigrant, anti-women, anti-LGBTQ bills r same people who push anti-Muslim bills." Linda Sarsour

""I ask you to stand and continue to keep your voice loud for Black women, for native women, for undocumented women, for LGBTQ communities, for people with disabilities," - Linda Sarsour

She's a liberal activist first and a "religious" person second.

>>31332

Why should we be against western LGBT "rights"? If they wanna be gay and stop reproducing then good riddance.

>>31333

t.moderate muslim

>>31337

Look, I'm a moderate…and I think we shouldn't give these LGBT folks an inch. Sure, throwing them off roofs is not the way to go but surely we could bring them back to the right path (except those wackos who are OK with spreading AIDS and junk, calling it the gift..those we get rid off).

>>31335

But you're not trying to ban fornication or sodomy. Kuffar homos getting married in USA is not something that affects the Muslim community.

>>31337

If that's meant as an insult then why? They're just dooming themselves. Let them.

>>31340

>Kuffar homos getting married in USA is not something that affects the Muslim community.

In general, no. I can absolutely assure you that the advent of gay marriage did, in no way, affect my marriage whatsoever. It does set up some terrible precedent, though, which makes it virtually impossible to bring my country back into the righteous path. It's one of those "well, it was legal before and it didn't hurt you, so keep it legal!" problems that we will face should we ever put a Muslim in the White House.

But, I'm a patient man. The US coming to the rightly guided path may not happen in my lifetime, but I have children and they can teach their children and maybe, some day, down the line this nation will come to Allah.

>>31338

>Sure, throwing them off roofs is not the way to go

It is for sodomites.

also, don't self identify as a moderate that's just cringe

>>31340

>If that's meant as an insult then why? They're just dooming themselves. Let them.

Because their kufr and deviancy affects the world, even pushes some weak muslims to support them, we are not christians who bow down to atheists and gays, who turn the other cheek, who love their enemy, we are muslim, we hate our enemies and die standing, men who when they step somewhere they enjoin good and forbid evil. I mean Lot's (as) people got heavenly nuked for being sodomites.

>>31342

>But, I'm a patient man. The US coming to the rightly guided path may not happen in my lifetime, but I have children and they can teach their children and maybe, some day, down the line this nation will come to Allah.

You sure have a lot of hope in the usa, just make sure to train if you able to, before the cross worshipers start purging us.

>>31344

Well, for what it's worth, the US is my nation. My family has been here for ~400 years. If the stick crew starts trying to purge us, I can guarantee they're in for a fight they can't win.

>>31345

I respect that. Stay armed akhis.

"[…] Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your equipment so they could come down upon you in one [single] attack. […]" -Surah An-Nisa [4:102]

>>31342

>In general, no. I can absolutely assure you that the advent of gay marriage did, in no way, affect my marriage whatsoever. It does set up some terrible precedent, though, which makes it virtually impossible to bring my country back into the righteous path.

Bad precedent is huge.

For example, if you have a religious orphanage or adoption service and it doesn't comply with LGBT norms it can be shut down, not letting gays adopt kids is seen as violation of sodomite rights.

Another precedent is general education, the advent of "LGBT rights" and the activists that promote them have changed school curriculum to be more "inclusive" of deviancy. Ive seen so many childrens books trying to normalize transgenderism, androgyny, sodomy, lesbianism, etc. It's insidious.

Linda Sarsur, if she is a muslim, should be adamantly against LGBT activism, lgbt marriage, and lgbt propaganda in general.

It's getting to the point now in the West that if you don't recognize your kids "preferred pronouns/gender identity" and allow them to transition sexes the government can take them away from you.

And I don't buy the dichotomy of separating politics from morality, or keeping your religion private or secondary to your activism, that's nonsense.

>>31346

Are there Muslim groups like vid related? That aren't like way off the daesh deep end anyway I feel like we don't organise enough, even if alot of us are quite strong and effective.

>>31351

I don't know if there are any Muslim militias or firearm training groups, but I've heard of Muslim communes. An islamic militia who chooses to practice their right to bear arms would immediately be called radical or terrorist sadly.

>>31351

>Are there Muslim groups like vid related?

>The FBI was also monitoring Balogun’s Facebook posts, where he called the murder suspect in a police officer’s killing a “hero” and said officers killed in Texas “deserve what they got.”

????