No.52043 [Last50 Posts]
I believe UBI is what's going to truly cause the start of high tech, low life on a mass scale when big government, large corporations and banks collude on an unprecedented scale to bring this economic policy about once tech begins seriously replacing people by the millions(this has already begun and will spread into seemingly 'safe' sectors). There will be an uber rich class of elites and then the rest of us.
The idea, doesn't seem to be going away and is actually becoming an increasingly popular solution to future realities of high unemployment levels (and current economic policy failures). UBI is an easy sell to the average person who is, by design, economically illiterate.
Governments, socialist by nature, would jump at the chance to have the populace even more reliant on them. UBI is also a surprisingly popular solution even amongst some prominent billionaires e.g. musk, zuckerberg. There's more but the point is, there's a lot of support for it.
>Here's where the cyberpunk high tech, low life part comes in.
More and more people become effectively useless as tech advancements continues to increase at faster and faster rates, replacing more professions. The fundamental economics behind UBI are broken, (they will inevitably make you poorer and ultimately less than cattle). Supply and demand would be completely distorted, (not to mention the massive increase in people choosing just not to work because why should they) leading to more centralised solutions and control by government and wealth siphoning off to the elite as an ongoing side effect.
However, here's the kicker, as more and more people become comparatively poorer and poorer, their standards of living will remain highly reliant on tech as it continues to get better and better and increasingly used in more of their daily lives than before. The elite especially will become more reliant on high tech solutions. So we're going to have this world of millions of impoverished people heavily reliant on high tech whom (due to economic realities) are forced into shadow economies for tech upgrades, drugs, basic necessities that UBI couldn't provide. High tech, low lives.
I'd advise any young fags here or if you have/ are having children to push them into STEM related jobs so they will have a place in the future. Engineering, robotics, biotech related fields or good ol' computing to remain useful. Otherwise prepping to go off grid for the coming storm (check out ongoing crisis in Venezuela to understand how to survive when Socialist economies inevitably fail).
>Central economic planning on UBI scale would cause scarcity (supply and demand distortion) so having fundamental knowledge of computing/ robotics hardware in whatever tech is necessary (today and in the future) is what I'd advise for everyone to have. Being able to fix/ upgrade hardware will become a very useful skill.
I believe the shift has already begun, years ago. I'm highly sceptical of any current official unemployment figures. An 'underworld' society of unemployed people that already get by through nefarious/ alternative or nepotistic ways is well on its way. Once UBI begins on a mass scale, that's the signal to get prepared. Once AI hits, its game over.
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No.52048
That's interesting. What happens if we add climate change to the mix?
I suspect the shift of (relative) power towards producers (or people who can profit off of shadow economy) rather than the tertiary sector employee/consumer/UBI recipient would be magnified by climate change and its effects on global economy. The balance between local and global economy is probably going to change; local know-how could be another strong mean of surviving (unlike today where you can live without knowing nothing of the place you inhabit and its people).
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No.52051
>>52043
im scared now anon, what the fuck are we going to do?
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No.52052
>>52043
IIRC solar and wind power are currently burgeoning industries according to BLS. Also, software engineers, HVAC and auto mechanics will eternally be useful.
RE: STEM, I was looking at a lot of future timeline info lately, and while we are being systematically dumbed down, there is going to come a time when the problems of the world (tech and increasingly volatile environmental and economic climates) will need creative problem solvers. If you have children try to encourage creative problem solving. UBI will complete the idiocracy for those susceptible.
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No.52061
>>52051
Sit back and enjoy the ride, chummer.
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No.52062
>>52043
>having the cure for cancer
>having a 9 billion customer base
>ignore customer base, don't make a killing, keep tech to a few 10k people who are mostly cancer free
wow, only a SJW could have come up with that vision
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No.52063
>>52062
cancer is big pharma's biggest brouzouf cow. treatments breed return customers and bigger bucks, cures don't. it's beyond conformist to not see all of the tech that is clearly held back from the general populace to secure the rulership of the few. unfuck yourself faggot.
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No.52066
>>52063
Well, they certainly can't provide more treatments for dead people.
You've gone beyond the stupidity of conspiracy theorists.>>52063
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No.52067
>>52066
If you don't believe that ((they))) are holding back a cure for cancer/AIDS/youfuckingnameit, you're delusional. Why let the cashcow run dry if you can milk it almost indefinitely?
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No.52068
>>52067
other anon here
first eliminate them, population is already pretty big. also most people there are poor as fuck
then they will start to sell it
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No.52071
>>52066
>Well, they certainly can't provide more treatments for dead people.
>assuming they want a massive population
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No.52072
>>52066
>them eventually dying means they don't provide as much brouzouf as someone completely cured of cancer
How much of a subhuman tard do you try to be every day to not see the very simple logic behind this?
>treat cancer patient for months/years
>make tens of thousands off it
>he dies
>eliminate cancer from patient
>make a fraction of what you would've made with the aforementioned treatment
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No.52075
>>52067
Do they milk it (almost) indefinitely, though? I'm no oncologist, but from what I know the treatments aren't that long, and when they end you're either "cured" or you die…
Hell, what do you even mean by "a cure for cancer"?
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No.52076
>>52075
A cure for cancer/AIDS = permanently eradicating it from someone.
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No.52077
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No.52083
>>52048
>>52052
Yeh agreed, climate change is going to cause worldwide demographic movements as certain areas of the world become increasingly unlivable and this movement(along with just plain economic migration) will be directed and accelerate towards cities and their surrounding suburbs, in turn creating mega cities. Basically whats happening anyway but faster paced and creating instability because of economies unable to keep up and keep stable civilisations. High rise apartment blocks are the usual solution, more cost efficient to go vertical with increased population. I'd steer clear of cities if possible though if UBI occurs. Self sufficiency, country living, owning your own land would be safer in this situation. Cyberpunk might sound cool but it wouldn't be safe in this situation. Overcrowding is dangerous - google "behavioural sink", scary indeed! Again scarcity will come into play here with natural resources too, most likely due to economic policies(price distortion) and geo-politics than actual scarcity of physical resources(for now anyway). The time for problem solving is right now! Always has been, always will be.
>>52051
I've made it seem all doom and gloom. It's not though! UBI isn't guaranteed, there are also many opposed to the idea. We could skip the step in history entirely and go to the next level of sovereign individuals making greater use of this new information age to interact peacefully and much more efficiently, with an ever decreasing requirement for government and massive centralised power structures e.g. cryptocurrencies removing the requirements of banks in transactions.
UBI is a power play move from legacy control structures to keep that control over an ever increasing decentralised world economy/ society (like current big tech censorship, eu banning memes etc its all about futile plays at keeping control, its temporary and from a position of weakness) and also the well wishers hoping to save everyone with their "fair" policies, unaware centralised planning solutions are what cause the increased "need" for UBI in the first place, meddling in ordinary peoples lives trying to micro manage everything. Free market solutions, when allowed to be expressed, are superior. Its not a conspiracy per se (though there will be nefarious individuals, elements wanting it) that they would push UBI, just more a natural tendency of any person to grow the structure they're involved with, to keep their power. Power isn't stationary. If you're not gaining power, its being lost. Its happened throughout history, power structures attempting last ditch efforts to maintain themselves (though I do think their will always be a place for some level of government - minarchism).
>Whatever you do, don't fear the robots. Embrace the changes even if you're career is directly going to be affected. Every technological shift brings untold wealth and opportunity. The signals are/ will be there. Adapt and take responsibility - prepare financially/ reeducate.
The world will readjust, its just government solutions like UBI prevent the free market correcting the situation naturally. Its easier to only look at the immediate effects of robots replacing people. Think about it, robots replace say the need for drivers. Millions slowly driven out of work, sounds awful right? But consider the opportunities it will also create. Increased efficiency in driving means less accidents, more predictability, saves businesses brouzouf to invest in and create more jobs, new wealth. Related industries will arise and benefit from the boom in the new self driving industry. Brand new jobs we haven't even considered right now will be created. Any already established business, like the simple store owner, will see a reduction in price of getting their goods transported, they can now perhaps employ more people, increase wages, expand etc. You get the idea though. Overall its a great thing for humanity, as most technological advancement is. Governments however have a habit of intervening with new taxes/regulations/policies to fix problems that would naturally correct themselves. The bigger picture is that whilst millions of jobs will become obsolete, many millions more will be created.
Like I said though, if/when UBI is rolled out, that's the signal to get preparing. It won't last but either way secure a place in the future through obtaining (useful) knowledge or wealth/ assets now. Also read pic related. There is life after a dystopian cyberpunk world and its looking good imo.
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No.52086
>>52083
>I'd steer clear of cities if possible though if UBI occurs. Self sufficiency, country living, owning your own land would be safer in this situation.
Appalachian trailer master race at 100mbps babay
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No.52147
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No.52162
>>52083
>small government will save us all
How is this meant to work when half or more of your population is quite literally unemployable, as in even though millions want a job, they just don't exist?
Government is going to become essential in taxing businesses and robots in order to redistribute that wealth to make sure everyone is fed, watered, and has a roof over their head. Doing nothing will result in rampant crime to begin with and eventually civil war.
Bovine or genocide, that's the fork in the road.
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No.52168
>>52162
>half or more of your population is quite literally unemployable
Population becomes unemployable during technological advancement because it's work becomes less valuable, so regulations like minimum wage remove the jobs from the market. Cheaper production is not bad in itself, as people are still capable of living the way they used to(i.e. growing their own food in the rural or trade between each other only). Progress makes the cost of living cheaper so reduction in amount of low paid wages can be overcome with freeing the place for low paid jobs (i.e. part time, self employment, small businesses all those things that socialist governments destroy), so that the reduction in amount of low paid jobs(which are already overpaid because of minimum wage laws) proportionally reduces teh cost of goods that had been along with them because of those inflated wages.
>Government is going to become essential
Never had it been, never will. If anything, it was fast to create a crisis out of an infrastructure working fine without it to expand its influence.
>Doing nothing will result in rampant crime
Usually armed thugs named government doing nothing results positively on economics and overall wealth of the people, it's the redistribution of wealth that creates a mess with rich redistributors, nepotism, oligopolist megacorps and incompetence. You are free to look at Detroit for the US or Venezuela, Brazil or USSR for examples.
>eventually civil war
You got it wrong, when government ruing your country's economy and becomes even more corrupt there might be a civil war, usually after the country becomes a 3rd world shithole.
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No.52201
>>52162
If it ever gets to a point where half or more of a population is unemployed it will be truly be the fault of government encouraging this with policies like UBI. Robots taking jobs won't happen over night, it'll be a slow burn and therefore able to correct itself if left alone (a free market). This preemptive thinking of tackling an immediate problem through government interference is what will cause it to metastasize. If government taxes the businesses that use robots they won't be able to grow and create new jobs/ wealth that could employ more people. The good side effects production/efficiency increase is supposed to give will be dampened. If allowed, there will be more jobs created with robots, its just difficult to envision typically because as humans we're more inclined to only see the immediate effects of something. Throughout history new technology might have lost some people their jobs initially but overall long term created a massive increase in new jobs.
>redistribute that wealth
If we were to go through with taking the new found wealth robots bring us through taxation it would go primarily to unproductive members of society (even more dangerous in a globalised world) and most importantly wouldn't come from the uber rich, with the game always being rigged in their favour no matter who's in charge. They always find a way to evade losing their wealth. Instead it'll come from the productive members of the middle/ working class as usual, inflation or just borrowed from future generations. Either way its doomed to fail.
A civil war is more likely in the case of UBI imo, simply because as I said the problem will metastasize and it'll hit a breaking point of too many people on it with no contribution to society. Living standards will drop as what happens to all centrally planned societies eventually. Wealth won't be redistributed, there'll just be an acceleration in the gap between the wealthy and the poor, today largely due to central economic planning, the ultra rich taking full advantage of these policies(corporate welfare, extremely low interest rates etc). True price discovery will become distorted as businesses adjust to the new guaranteed income of every person and new taxation siphoning off more wealth from the productive members of society, the job creators.
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No.52206
>>52043
Nah I think we are gonna get a way more lame version of that. Think that episode of black mirror with the social credit thing: if you're a "shitlord" your sjw overlords will take your UBI away, and what are you gonna do now that robots and AI have made everyone unemployable and obsolete?
Its "soft opression", instead of a gulag they take your UBI away, you dont get access to the oasis VR network to avoid looking at your shitty reality like everybody does, you get blocked IRL and become an unperson. Result? everybody complies, nobody rebels.
And this could go on forever.
>inb4 how you keep UBI and this economy
With robots and AI doing everything you get incredible efficiency. Also living on UBI doesn't mean you wont be a poorfag: you will get synthetic food like vat-grown burgers which tastes good but thats it, same with housing. You wont own anything just be able to rent it, that way you're basically indentured for life since your UBI wont even be real brouzouf but social credits that have an expiration date so you can't have saving either, that way the moment you rebel you can't even eat your 3D printed burgers or "pay" for your shitty fifth element-like closet/apartment and have to live outside with climate change monsoons raining on you and not even a refrigerator box to hide in.
>inb4 "if robots do anything then why we dont get everything for free"
Because you wont own the robots chummer…
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No.52208
>>52206
Well, yeah. The most helpless person is the person on welfare. He's got things to lose unlike a piss poor one but has absolutely no control over them.
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No.52213
>>52071
>>52072
>>52076
I don't think you appreciate just how difficult it is to 'cure' just one type of cancer, let alone the hundreds of unique types of known cancers - each with their own cause/structure/risks/custom-tailored, effective treatments.
Just sayin'
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No.52220
>>52043
>Elysium
Fantastic. Whites flee a world full of mud people and create a floating utopia; brown people invade and fuck it all up.
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No.52222
>>52208
Except someone on welfare can always get a job and move on
Under this system you're fucked, you're indentured for life either you like it or you don't
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No.52224
>>52222
Not really. If you lose your state provided job you lose your welfare and have nowhere else to go, it's only if there's little welfare that you can become independent because welfare destroys opportunities. Welfare isn't created out of thin air, it's either created by extortion of other's wealth, stealing it, be it via inflation or taxes or outright forced labor. If the state monopolizes all industry then it's free to decide who and how gets its reaches and so anyone who tries to defy the current order is just rejected and has nowhere to go because all is centered around the system.
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No.52233
>>52224
The fuck thats exactly what I'm talking about: in a world where all there is is UBI you're indentured for life, and if they take it away from you because your social credit score is too low then you're fucked
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No.52301
>>52220
with the help of White race traitors (antifa) of course
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No.52395
>>52072
So what do you conspiracytards think about Paull Allen? He didn't have enough brouzouf for the "cure" or he didn't have enough connections to be on da sekret klub.
It doesn't matter, really, though I would ask the likes of you to please, PLEASE, not reproduce, as we already have enough idiots.
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No.52465
>>52220
That movie was both retarded and disappointing: compared to D9 it was shit, and the director went full-SJW cunt even before that was a thing.
But the whole thing was dumb as fuck, why would the rich people keep these medical beds only for themselves? they could make a killing just charging people to use them, there is zero fucking reason for them not to put them on earth. And if they have magical tech that can regrown some guys entire face after its been blown off IN SECONDS then how isn't the earth "fixed"? are you telling me cleaning everything and shit would be harder than these heals-everything machines?
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No.52469
>>52465
> keep these medical beds only for themselves? they could make a killing just charging people to use them, there is zero fucking reason for them not to put them on earth.
Okay, but just so you know that's not necessarily how capitalism works. People do try to profit by creating artificial scarcity all the time.
>Tesla was able to remotely upgrade batteries, because it had already given people good batteries.
>Labour Unions, and a lot of regulation is about creating a scarcity of service.
>Med schools reject 4.0s, nursing schools are full but people arn't building new schools en masse to accommodate extra talent.
>McDonalds mutliple sizes of Soda prices aren't driven by cost.
>Stadiums ban bringing in your own drinks, food.
>Zoning Laws create housing scarcity and homelessness exists while tiny houses are illegal due presumably to being inhumane.
Virtually everything is sold under conditions of "as much as we can possibly get you to pay". And providing health care to as many people as possible is fundamentally at odds with conditions of "as much as we can possibly get you to pay".
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No.52485
>>52465
>And if they have magical tech that can regrown some guys entire face after its been blown off IN SECONDS then how isn't the earth "fixed"?
Easy, because it's full of mystery meat mud people.
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No.52979
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No.52980
My invention is worth at lest a million dollars per person
I did it for the brouzouf not humanity
You need to pay me me me me
See I can help humans you need to pay me me me me
Divide the masses
Your so special
Select few will prosper
And reset you do with out
No way anon not how the world works
No one is about humanity
It’s about brouzouf
And someone else picking up the bill if the bill is not picked up by someone else at a enormous price you don’t get your medical device.
No free rides
Just brouzouf
Greedy people
Humanity is cruel
Welcome to the future
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No.52981
Rich people only
That’s reality
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No.52986
>>52043
>Governments, socialist by nature
Confirmed for being a 56%er who has no idea what socialism is.
UBI has nothing to do with socialism, it isn't a socialist policy, and it isn't popular with socialists. UBI is a libertarian approach to the obvious inherent contradictions of capitalism.
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No.52987
>Venezuela
>Socialist
Venezuela is less socialist than fucking Denmark, and I'm sure you don't think that's "failing".
>Going into STEM will make you not obsolete
The entire field of AI is tasked with putting STEM nerds, including themselves, out of a job. Get over yourself.
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No.52994
I'm studying computer science/engineering at a university. Do you think I'm safe?
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No.53029
>>52994
Absolutely not. See >>52987
>70% of CS majors are not even as good as the 3rd-world Indians replacing them. 95% of CS jobs are going to go to AI within the next 40 years (you will still be alive for that).
No personal offense intended, but if you don't have the foresight to know that anything can and will be automated, you definitely aren't in the 5% that'll take longer than one lifespan to get rid of.
The only solutions to this incoming job crysis is full Anarchist syndicalist worker-control or pure unabomber primitivist autism.
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No.53033
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>52981
Fuck ya Trauma Team
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No.53038
Let me just state, 99% of everyone, including (you).
Will not make it to the top, you will not live in the upper levels of the arcology, nor will your kids. The stats aren't there. You'll be on the streets like the rest of us.
But…
And here's the BIG but, all the STEM knowledge and skills will make you (or in this care your kids or your kids kids) invaluable on the streets. Maybe you'll live out in the rural parts what little remain, maybe we'll avoid ecological collapse… but the truth is that our current society is unsustainable for billions upon billions of people. So the Rich… the elites… you know (((them))). Will follow the path of least resistence, they'll knock everyone down the the more sustainable lifestyle you see in China's or India' impoverished. some tech will make it down to the slums, but it'll remain slums. Your grand kids will be raised in the slums.
But it's in these slums where the New Scum can grow. See Scum can not grow where it is sterile. If you think you can reach for the upper glamor levels of the Arcologies, you'll only succeed in making yourself a servant or pleasure slave for the elites. It's not good fate for you or your children.
What the goal should be, is to be new scum. Is to be the rat living off the fat of kings. To be Free, and to let the elite's own idiocy topple themselves and for them to deliver all their wonders and pleasures to yourself and your kin. I don't fear the future, I don't care if UBI or not UBI is a thing… I'm more concerned about growing my skill set and passing it on to the young. I'm more interested in finding places to live off their excess and stupidity. I'm much more interested in building under their noses instead of trying to fight their drones and monoliths.
All kings and emperors of history have died, all empires have fallen, all kingdoms gave way to nations and all nations are doomed to fail. Yet the Rats, the scum that grows on it's underside… remains and will remain for whatever next thing comes along.'
There is no winning, there is only survival. Kings and Gods always seem to lose.
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No.53042
>>53029
Well fuck. I'm only on the first year of my studies and I don't yet know what I want to specialize at, but if I am not safe then I don't know who is. I'm trying to study hard so that I wouldn't become easily replaceable, but I guess the future will show if it's going to be enough.
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No.53808
>>52469
But in that movie they still had regular hospitals and doctors back on earth, its fucking nonsense
>>52485
Dont be a dumb nigger, also there were still white people on earth (and brown and black people in elysium, like the president) but they showed more color people under there so they could exploit the muhracism
>>52987
Bitch please the danes had to come out and tell bernie the cuck to shut the fuck up about them being socialists. Venezuela literally has a socialist government that controls wealth distribution, what happened? that every wealthy venezuelan got the fuck out of there years ago, and then all the qualified workers did because they couldnt get a job after all the business that belonged to those wealthy people closed their doors.
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No.53815
>>52395
>still thinking in terms of wealth not power
His wealth lives on, they didn't need him specifically for anything.
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No.53841
>>52063
>5g causes cancer the post
I always forget that boomers started this genre. Well, thanks for your input, grandpa.
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No.53878
>>53841
>implying it doesn't
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No.53913
>>52986
Redistribution of wealth acquired through taxation (read: pilfered) isn't a socialist policy? That's odd, most people who advocates that claims to be socialists and it essentially makes up the definition of socialism.
Libertarians don't advocate increased theft and strongly advise against further market distortions. There are no obvious inherent contradictions of capitalism but if you think there are perhaps you'd like to enlighten us as to what they are exactly. Though I guess since you said "56%er" you probably have a hard time reading this post so let me try to write it out in your language:
Cuck cuck cuck cuck cuck mutt mutt cuck cuck cuck. Lol, just owned some libtards, upvote my real nibba post, it's real nibba hours.
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No.53919
>>52986
>UBI is a libertarian approach
what? are you dumb? or do you think the borderline commie bernie bros from /r/libertarian are what real libertarians are like?
UBI is theft plain and simple. it is also anti-liberty as you need a government to enforce the redistribution.
if it ain't free market it ain't libertarian. plain and simple.
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No.57722
How close are we now? “Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.” Has it already started? Strange times.
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No.57735
>>57722
Could be worse. I remember in ABC Warriors, there is a condition called Infolation- a state of anxiety brought about by the fact that everything has been invented and the implication of this stagnation.
To fight this, the authorities have museums of products and re release old products under new names at set intervals to maintain the illusion of progress.
Now that is depressing.
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No.57736
The only relevant contribution I can came out with is that these poor and "economically illiterate" cattle will start seeing technology as magic or some kind of divine thing.
Think about it, with no need for jobs, education is also unnecessary, forming an entire social sector of ignorant consumerists. These people have at their disposal multiple advanced gadgets that make them live longer and happier than ever, all of which surpasses their natural knowledge of how things work.
They could form an entire religion out of technology, with their own rituals and superstitions, just like that Isaac Asimov novel
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No.57737
>>57736
This is already sort of a common phenomenon, there are people that don't know how does a computer works and still use them as their only medium to their religion, iphone apps with an algorithm which selects your daily verse from the bible and stuff like that. I have actually seen a video of a woman talking about how to read the tarot using yu-gi-oh cards.
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No.57758
>>57735
That might seem far fetched but the amount of lies we collectively tell ourselves in current day society is quite numbing and it's not all that different (at least in western nations but I don't want to turn this into a pol thread). I think UBI is just a matter of time anyway, maybe COVID-19 will be the spark because who knows whats going to happen after this. The stimulus cheques today might stay in some form as once voters are hooked on free brouzouf no politician will want to be the one to take that away from them. Tech advances will continue.
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No.57759
>>57758
>Tech advances will continue.
Do you mean romantic or administrative?
>Romantic: something that is designed to evoke some kind of emotion and often grandiose. An example of a romantic advancement would be a new craft to take people to Mars or a new observatory/telescope.
>Administrative: technology designed to help us with day to day life.
Former often depends on access to public funding and latter depends on marketability as well as available funds from inventor and investors.
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No.57760
>>57759
Why not both? I was just referring to the inevitable continued advances in any tech sector (however it may be funded) running in parallel to the average citizen becoming less wealthy resulting in high tech, low life societies. I'm just curious what a world would like with UBI alongside whatever new tech is on the horizon. Would it result in a Elysium type world or something like Star Trek (eventually)? Who knows.
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