/christianity/ -the problem of rampant unbelief in Christianity

Name
Email
Subject	REC STOP
Comment *
File	Select/drop/paste files here
Password	(Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
Archive	Archive [500 char limit]
* = required field	[▶Show post options & limits] Confused? See the FAQ.

Flag	open flag menu
Embed	(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options	Do not bump (you can also write sage in the email field)
Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webp,webm, mp4, mov, pdf Max filesize is16 MB. Max image dimensions are15000 x15000. You may upload5 per post.

File: 1708d6013e02d24⋯.jpg (27.02 KB,651x291,217:97,Milky-way-2_article_image.jpg)

the problem of rampant unbelief in Christianity 07/28/19 (Sun) 02:07:50 bedbe0 No.9939

Do you ever get the feeling that most Christians don't really believe in God and the bible. That they're just in it for the good community and morals? I'm not just talking about obvious cases like those churches we see with the rainbow flags - instead it seems to be that many churches, both liberal and conservative, are filled with congregation and even pastoral staff that don't actually believe in God.

Theology that would be no different without God

I'm not basing this on the way anyone acts, I understand that all fall short. It's more the theology - a lot of the pop theology going around at churches actually seems to present a view that nullifies God.

For example:

The popular saying:

>God answers prays yes, no or wait

How is that different from if you were praying and there was no God. If God didn't exit, you would still get what you prayed for sometimes, not get it other time, and have to wait other times. This belief is no different from the way the world would be if God doesn't exist.

In a world where God exists, if a prayer isn't answered, it should mean that something went wrong and prayers should be answered yes more often than not. - unanswered prayers should be an aberration that causes concern.

Another was from my cousin who is a junior Charismatic pastor he said something along the lines of:

>prayer doesn't change things; it changes me

And I just thought, that seems no different from how prayer would work in a world that God doesn't exist.

It's almost like they don't really think God exists or cares, but want to believe he does, so they go about creating a theology that would be equally true whether God exists or not.

In fact a lot of Christian-isms that are spread around the church read more like self help stuff and inspirational quotes that aren't much different in their philosophy and meaning from motivational quotes that unbelievers say to one another - they're just changed slightly to put them in a Christian setting.

Misinterpretation of faith as juxtaposition to atheism

The big disruption for me came with the modern churches emphasis on faith - which it seems to interpret as believing in the existence of God. But I don't think that's how the bible intended the word faith - because it was written in a time when practically everyone believed in some form of deity. The bible seems to use faith more as described by Paul in Hebrew 11 - a faith that trusts God above ourselves and our reason, and relying on God instead on our own strength or ingenuity. To me it seems like every time faith is used in the bible - it is used in this context and not in the modern context which treats it as a juxtaposition to atheism rather than a trust in God.

In fact when the bible talks about atheism or lack of belief - it uses the term unbelief. The term "lack of faith" was used by Jesus against his disciples who clearly believed in God. It is used many time in the bible to describe people who clearly were not atheist and who clearly believed in God. It was used as a criticism for those who lacked trust in God and wanted to trust in their own powers and knowledge.

Dire Implications of Churches dominated by unbelievers

Do you ever get the feeling that most Christians don't believe in God. They've just been raised in or found the church community, grown fond of it and just settled their because the people and the philosophy give them hope and support? If so, what can be done about this, it seems like under such circumstances churches are doomed to be dominated by unbelievers

____________________________

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/28/19 (Sun) 03:35:30 71bc6f No.9941

You are right. In the US, we have survey data to verify this observation.

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/christians/christian/

>only 76% of self identified Christians are absolutely certain in their Belief in God

>47% attend weekly service

>54% believe homosexuality should be accepted

I'm over getting despondent about it, just dismiss all liberal denominations, and all nominals of every denomination. Their opinions do not matter, I am concerned with understanding God's word above everything else.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/28/19 (Sun) 03:53:49 13e931 No.9942

It's called modernism and it's the worst heresy to attack Christanity.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 00:18:38 aea0ee No.10121

File: e09509eeb0fe015⋯.jpg (336.42 KB,2048x1390,1024:695,Joseph_von_Führich_001.jpg)

>>9939

>Do you ever get the feeling that most Christians don't really believe in God and the bible. That they're just in it for the good community and morals?

Yes, and in many cases the 'morals' aren't a factor at all - just the social aspect. I believe in my own church (big non-denom protestant) which has a very young age distribution, many of the single people there are sexually active, and seem very content with living a cushy, low obligation, low commitment lifestyle in very well paying government jobs. It is frustrating to feel and see the spiritual lethargy that comes with this.

>In a world where God exists, if a prayer isn't answered, it should mean that something went wrong and prayers should be answered yes more often than not. - unanswered prayers should be an aberration that causes concern.

God is faithful and honors His children who call upon His name, one way or another. Christians should absolutely not sit there and expect prayers to go unanswered. In fact, Christ tells us to 'cry day and night' to the Lord, and constantly be praying, and that God will hear and answer us because of this constancy (Luke 18:1-8). We are told to trust in God with all our heart and lean on His understanding, and acknowledge Him in ALL our ways (Proverbs 3:5-7). Even Psalm 127 talks of the fact that any labor is in vain without the involvement of God. We should be acknowledging and supplicating God to come into our lives in ALL matters - even the trivial, and we should be making these supplications constantly. This is what Christ did on earth, this is what the Apostles did, we need to do this too.

>prayer doesn't change things; it changes me

Yes prayer should also change the one who prays, as it is a habitual behavior which radically changes our approach to any undertaking/tribulation. But it is not some zen exercise by which we get closer to self mastery or something of the like. It is a tried and tested approach to living in the world as a Christian.

>The big disruption for me came with the modern churches emphasis on faith - which it seems to interpret as believing in the existence of God.

>The bible seems to use faith more as described by Paul in Hebrew 11 - a faith that trusts God above ourselves and our reason, and relying on God instead on our own strength or ingenuity.

Yes, and I think many churches are not willing to profess that a saving faith is one which yields good fruits (works), not one which can only compel you to admit the existence of God. It is far easier to increase the attendance of your church by preaching a completely inoffensive gospel though, and many churches see attendance as the most important metric.

>They've just been raised in or found the church community, grown fond of it and just settled their because the people and the philosophy give them hope and support? If so, what can be done about this, it seems like under such circumstances churches are doomed to be dominated by unbelievers.

Many people will say just move church, but I think it is a bit more nuanced than that. Ofc, if you attend a church with clearly heretical teachings, you should leave if the leadership aren't willing to change. Barring this, try to be the change you want to see. Ask God to help you inject His life and spirit into what is a lukewarm environment. At the end of the day its a church where people presumably profess the Nicene Creed, God is already halfway there with these people. God could use you in this situation if you are willing.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 00:34:04 cad4ce No.10123

Yes, faith is trust in God, and religion the part of justice that gives to God what is God's, and both regardless of whether God exists, surely He doesn't naturally exist, as part of the natural world, except for Jesus' human nature, which Jesus' Divine nature created, because all things were made through Him.

All material effects, except miracles, have material causes, so prayer, except if it convinces God to perform a miracle, can't have material effects, but it surely can have supernatural effects, the most important of which is, hopefully, the point in our lives when we humbly ask our Lord and Savior for the free gift of salvation that we can't possibly earn. At any rate prayer is part of God's due that we are to render unto Him.

The supernatural, and God, are intrinsically mysterious. There's nothing wrong with coming together to consume the words of God, by which, and not by bread alone, man can live. Unfortunately, men who don't actually believe in God are likely to pick and choose what to follow instead of obeying the Lord's commandments out of love for Him. The Lord clearly prohibited divorce, and in the 20th century divorce, adultery, fornication, and obscenity, are all commonplace and more or less accepted by men who call themselves Christians.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 01:36:35 0618fa No.10129

>>9939

>Do you ever get the feeling that most Christians don't really believe in God and the bible.

Yes.

>That they're just in it for the good community and morals?

No, they don't seem to care about morals at all. They think faggots are acceptable, fornication is acceptable, etc.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 01:58:37 485538 No.10133

>>9939

i 💯 agree with your first paragraph i didn’t read the rest. these two threads are related, honestly, aren’t they the identical topic? now, respecting the observation… look, as someone with high emotional intelligence i pick up on levels of bs-ing. i hate it when i see it, though incredibly often, in pastors (eg i am certain completely that the pope is an atheist). but nobody listens to me. meanwhile, i knew that harris guy was a liar from day one, but it was impermissible to question his authenticity.

>10132

>9125

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 01:59:05 485538 No.10134

>>10133

fixing links

>>10132

>>9125

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 02:01:15 485538 No.10135

>>10129

it’s much worse than that, because they don’t even care that god isn’t changing the hearts of women to prefer christians in their religiousness! they don’t care about anything but to be patted on the back by kikes and the agents at the fusion center.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 02:54:21 218895 No.10142

>>9939

>Do you ever get the feeling that most Christians don't really believe in God and the bible.

Yes and I'll tell you why. If you thought someone you knew was about to be hit with a car, you'd drop whatever you were doing to intervene. Nothing else would matter. Burning in hell for all eternity is infinitely worse than that, yet everybody seems distracted with other more important things than making people aware of sin and its consequences.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 04:42:50 485538 No.10161

>>10142

>yet everybody seems distracted

true

<with other more important things

false: verifiable by studies of binge internet use, gaming, sports viewing, tv watching

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 07:55:25 a65ae9 No.10177

Religiosity (what you are talking about) is cyclical and we are in a down turn, nothing more. People like to imagine our forefathers were a Christian nation but they really weren't when it comes to practice hence why most of the founders effectively agnostic as was most of the country; basically if you look at the history of "christian revivals" they tend to go on a every third generation scale going back to the Roman Empire. That isn't to say that most people go atheist, more they go the agnostic / natural religion route, i.e. "Yes I believe in the religion of the land but I don't really practice it outside the occasional lip service and customs such as funerals, weddings, births, major holidays, etc". What you are also missing is the religious institution and it's trapping is also a community thing hence why most Jews are atheist yet strong supporters of Judaism and are usually extremely observant though they don't believe in the faith aspect at all of it. You see the same often in some Anabaptist and most of non-Western Christendom and also where it's more an identity than a religion for it's followers. But even in those cases there is no real crisis as they aren't as evangelical in nature. TBH the real people having a "crisis" are secular US Papists and non-black US evangelicals whom are trying to compete with culture and failing as a complementary ideology; the rest of Christendom is doing fine.

Two other comments though:

1: Religiosity ebbs and flows throughout ones lifespan. The key thing, as Jews and non-Western Christendom understand though, is religion keeps you grounded AND even if you don't believe, your children might as long as you pass it on (or their grandchildren) whereas you religion (and community identity/values) die if you if you don't hence you pass it on and honor it's trappings even without belief. You can't have a future revival (or people) if your kids don't know the motions.

2: You aren't praying to God because God gives a shit; you are praying to God because it provides you comfort and because God seems to have expressed we should (for unknown reason).

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 10:55:27 751112 No.10185

>>9939

>>10177

Prayer is conversation with God; It's a conversation. You talk to Jesus like you would a best friend, or brother, or father. When your talking to Jesus you're talking to God.

God wants you to pray because a relationship with conversation is not a relationship. Thanks to Jesus you can talk to God about anything casually. And like with people (Jesus is the Son of Man as well), there is a time to talk and a time to listen.

The Lord's Prayer also serves as a template:

>Pray then like this: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Any form of communication with God is praying/prayer.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 10:56:23 751112 No.10186

>>10185

*a relationship without conversation is not a relationship.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 10:57:54 751112 No.10187

>>10185

Thinking about this is all dependant on how well you know Jesus or how close you are to him.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 11:45:47 aea0ee No.10189

>>10177

This anon makes some good points, however:

>2: You aren't praying to God because God gives a shit; you are praying to God because it provides you comfort and because God seems to have expressed we should (for unknown reason).

I would really love to know where you got the idea that God does not give a damn about whether we pray. I'm sure you actually know the contrary is stated in scripture, and I would advise all anons to not buy into this disinfo. Please explain the basis for this idea friend

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 12:00:37 018448 No.10190

>>9942

Catholics are modernists. Every one of their traditions came long after the early (Ante-Nicene) Church and the Apostles.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 18:44:10 a65ae9 No.10220

>>10189

You are making the classic Papist mistake of anthropomorphizing God. God is beyond comprehension and prayer isn't like a telephone; to suggest it is (or to suggest your communicate with have any impact on God) diminishes God as it implies fallibility and ignorance . You pray to God because God in his apparent revealed preferences (via scripture) stated you should pray (or more accurate, you should recite some words generally pro forma using some sort of template as a small sacrifice of your time; that is all we know). Outside that you pray for your own comfort; a comfort in that you are obedient to God and as such God will come through for you in the end.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 18:46:21 bf9513 No.10221

>That they're just in it for the good community and morals?

Not even that. Many of them are in it because it just so happens to currently benefit them (modern, hip churches make them look cool and give them opportunities to hang out with other young people, sometimes they can post "radical" Church-y posts on social media for approval, etc.)

And then later they come out as gay or announce that they leave the faith entirely, because they finally decided that the faith no longer benefits them or their image as "cool" or "profound." And that's all it was ever about since day one. Their own image.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 18:48:46 bf9513 No.10222

>God answers prays yes, no or wait

>How is that different from if you were praying and there was no God. If God didn't exit, you would still get what you prayed for sometimes, not get it other time, and have to wait other times. This belief is no different from the way the world would be if God doesn't exist.

That's a little different though, because you may ask me for things, and I may say either yes, no, or wait. That doesn't mean you don't believe I exist.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

07/30/19 (Tue) 23:38:15 aea0ee No.10268

File: e42dc8c79be33b5⋯.png (92.97 KB,1272x1130,636:565,pure_actuality.png)

>>10220

>You are making the classic Papist mistake of anthropomorphizing God.

I dont see how I am doing that because I stated God actually cares that we pray. I understand that God is not 'rational' or 'creaturely' in any sense, and is incorporeal, and have never held an anthropomorphic view of Him.

>God is beyond comprehension and prayer isn't like a telephone; to suggest it is (or to suggest your communicate with have any impact on God) diminishes God as it implies fallibility and ignorance.

Firstly, I never suggested prayer was like a telephone, or levied any 'changing effect' on God to violate His immutable character. I am aware of this argument, and agree that the immutability of God must be true if he is omniperfect. However, if things that 'impact' God diminish Him, then how do we deal with the trove of references in the bible to God reacting with strong emotion to disobedience or obedience? Are they there to help us understand Him by relating to Him? Or did God really 'feel' those things about certain actions in his own way?

>You pray to God because God in his apparent revealed preferences (via scripture) stated you should pray

It feels stupid that we are even disagreeing, because you obviously believe God knows prayer to be good for humans, and commands them to pray, and answers prayer. If people held this in contempt or refused to do it, would God really not have any reaction? He did in the OT about exactly this point many times when Israel prayed to other Gods and was adulterous. I am not saying He 'cares' in the same way we care, or is affected by events here in a temporal sense. I am saying that in His own way, He loves it when humans have freely chosen Him and follow Him (prayer included), and hates the converse. I think we need to be careful when we talk about what is meant for God to be 'impacted', as some definitions would lead you to the conclusion that because creation itself impacted God (He had to 'act' to create), it must have caused a change/diminishing in His perfect state, making the act of creation sub-optimal. I have heard people say this.

>Outside that you pray for your own comfort; a comfort in that you are obedient to God and as such God will come through for you in the end.

From your previous post I couldn't tell if you believed in the efficacy of prayer outside of things such as personal comfort. Glad you do

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.