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/christianity/ - Christian Theology & Philosophy

If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. - 1 Peter 4:14
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File: 71506d986858965⋯.jpg (393.62 KB,1439x1304,1439:1304,Screenshot_20190723-194506….jpg)

0c053b No.9339

Everyone that posts on this board needs to listen to this

He exactly identifies the trad Catholic phenomenon that plagues imageboard culture, and it turns out it has a wide scope.

>Renewing Your Mind with R.C. Sproul: Rome in the Twentieth Century https://renewingyourmind.org/2019/07/23/rome-in-the-20th-century

>The Roman church as we know it isn't an institution since antiquity, it's medieval

>The wild Marian heresies are largely a result of the 20th century, via Vatican II

>If Francis is changing things in a way that the secular media is pleased with, is that a good thing?

>Catholics defer doctrine in favor of "implicit faith", you don't have to work out doctrine yourself you just need to place blind Faith in your benevolent instructors

How many times have you heard that here?

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26b236 No.9343

>>9339

>>Renewing Your Mind with R.C. Sproul

Is he back from the grave?

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0c053b No.9356

>>9343

No, the program is just still running

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b541cc No.9360

1. Marian devotion goes back at least to 250 AD and was sanctioned by the council of Ephesus - it 's not a vatican 2 creation

2. Blind faith - whether it be in the vatican, the bible or anything else has never been encouraged by the catholic church. We believe in using faith together with reason

3. Immaculate conception, while questionable is by no means a new theory, it just went from being a controversial theory to one made generally acceptable by papal declaration

4. I would reluctantly agree with him on two points:

- two of the more extreme proclamations on mary (her being the queen of heaven and the immaculate conception are relatively modern 20th century declarations - although the concepts themselves are fairly old - just controversial).

- yes the church has become more conservative, less open to questioning and debate and more inward looking since the reformation - but really that's to be expected.

5. I would attack him on this though - many of the things that protestants most strongly object to about Catholics, like the veneration of Mary goes right back to pre-Constantine Christianity - we have archeological evidence confirming this. And although Paul didn't speak about it in his letters, he was certainly aware of it from the churches he visited and didn't seem to think to condemn it.

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c5955a No.9361

>>9360

>Blind faith - whether it be in the vatican, the bible or anything else has never been encouraged by the catholic church

If you are unwilling to place blind faith in God, you are not a Christian (Matthew 18:3)

>while questionable is by no means a new theory

It's certainly a novel one, however.

>the veneration of Mary goes right back to pre-Constantine Christianity

The "veneration" (idolatry) of anything doesn't even go back to Constantine.

>And although Paul didn't speak about it in his letters, he was certainly aware of it from the churches he visited

It most certainly doesn't date back to the 1st century

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f62dfb No.9362

File: cc44bb87e755ec9⋯.jpg (99.27 KB,592x696,74:87,earlychurchmary.jpg)

File: 10ac2dd76a5f967⋯.jpg (38.46 KB,325x460,65:92,ladybyluke.jpg)

>>9361

>you are not a Christian

Anyone who is not a Catholic cannot be saved, thus they cannot be called "Christian"

>The "veneration" (idolatry) of anything doesn't even go back to Constantine.

Communion of the Saints is explicitly taught by the Fathers who were instructed by Saint John the beloved Apostle. John the Apostle was an idolator?

Ὑπὸ τὴν σὴν εὐσπλαγχνίαν, καταφεύγομεν, Θεοτόκε. Τὰς ἡμῶν ἱκεσίας, μὴ παρίδῃς ἐν περιστάσει, ἀλλ᾽ ἐκ κινδύνων λύτρωσαι ἡμᾶς, μόνη Ἁγνή, μόνη εὐλογημένη.

Which translates:

Beneath your compassion,

We take refuge, O Mother of God:

do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:

but rescue us from dangers,

only pure, only blessed one.

(250AD–not only does this show the immaculate view of the Blessed Virgin, they're also praying to her)

''O purest one

O purest virgin

where the Holy Spirit is, there are all things readily ordered.

Where divine grace is present

the soil that, all untilled, bears bounteous fruit

in the life of the flesh, was in possession of the incorruptible citizenship,

and walked as such in all manner of virtues, and lived a life more excellent than man's common standard

thou hast put on the vesture of purity

has selected thee as the holy one and the wholly fair;

and through thy holy, and chaste, and pure, and undefiled womb

since of all the race of man thou art by birth the holy one, and the more honourable, and the purer, and the more pious than any other: and thou hast a mind whiter than the snow, and a body made purer than any gold''

(Gregory Thaumaturgus, early 3rd century)

Eastern Fathers called her Panagia, Achrantos, Theotokos, Aeiparthenos.

>Deacon: Remembering our most holy, pure, blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary, with all the saints, let us commit ourselves and one another and our whole life to Christ our God.

From the Divine Liturgy of Chrysostom.

>It most certainly doesn't date back to the 1st century

You can visit the painting of the Virgin Mary by Saint Luke (it dates to the Apostolic age), it's in India. It was carried all the way there by Saint Thomas.

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b541cc No.9363

>>9361

>Matthew 18:3 in full context

>. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

neither Matthew 18:3 nor any other verse in the bible advocates blind faith. Faith in God in the bible means trusting God, believing that he will work for your benefit and trusting in his plans.

It does not mean blind belief, nowhere in the bible is such a thing advocated and no where in christendom outside of modern protestant churches is that advocated.

The bible tells us that the heaves declare the glory of God - ie that it's obvious that God exists

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