cb855f No.7112
Hello, I'm an orthodox atheist, so I consider the community itself to be the higher power. In my world, the good old fashioned tribal council is about as good as a justice system can get. (Mob rule.)
I'm supposed to be lutheran by birth, but the naïvety has by and large worn off, and I have just about no trust left in my fellow man.
I'm tired of entitled welfare mommas who are unwilling to form commitments, and I'm considering expanding my search parameters.
I consider mormons and quakers to be likely candidates for me to search out a quality woman.
As long as the nonsense is completely foreign, or kept to a minimum, I'm able to endure religious people.
This may mean that frankly, I may be more open to islam, because the muslims are a bit more tolerant of cannabis.
That being said. Do you have any suggestions for sects, cults, or other major schisms that may be worthwhile?
To be clear, I am asking for examples of active communities who have a functioning (and malleable) moral code.
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3eec91 No.7123
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cb855f No.7165
>>7123
Not trying to be disgusting, but I appreciate the honesty.
Am I not supposed to care about the cultural heritage of my people being incompatible with our current ways?
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3eec91 No.7171
>>7165
Let me tell you what's wrong with your post since you asked
>Quirky r/christianity made up label "orthodox atheist"
>Edgy moral hot takes
>Condescension towards religious observers
>Numale sci-fi unrelated image
and most egregious
>acting as if we should care at all about your opinion
This is a board where we talk about Christianity, mostly theological debate. It's hard to decipher, but it looks like you were asking for a recommendation for a non Christian religious group so you could find your m'lady, even though you're too enlightened to believe it yourself. We're not interested in helping you do that.
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cb855f No.7177
>>7171
Thanks for indulging my egregiousness.
>Quirky r/christianity made up label "orthodox atheist"
<The "orthodox atheist" part was coined by Lukashenko, because most european countries are secular nowadays, including the one I am from.
>Edgy moral hot takes
<Mass immigration has brought cannabis, and the internet has fragmented communities. In my country, Islam is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with..
>Condescension towards religious observers
< That is unintended. I want to make my moral code compatible with existing communities, because the secular "no trust" thing, makes the laws pedantic, and the police view citizens with suspicion.
>Numale sci-fi unrelated image
<Battlestar galactica was created by a mormon, and it delves into ethics with that as its basis. Granted, it seems unrelated, but I think having my kids exploring ethics through science fiction, is just as sustainable as other ways of education.
>acting as if we should care at all about your opinion
<Obviously you're free to ignore my opinion, but I'm glad you didn't.
I'm not "too enlightened"! I am stating that for me, a beleif in god amounts to trusting that people in my community have objectively good intentions, and I don't, based on real experiences.
This is why I am asking for guidance. Nobody taught my how to relate to religious people, and evidently I am treating you with the same suspicion as the police is treating everybody with.
I just want to figure out how to best experience the human condition. And yes, that involves finding m'lady.
And my appologies for not being clear. I am not used to (trying to) talk about this aspect of my culture.
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3eec91 No.7181
>>7177
Ok, here's our guidance: pick up and read the Bible. Christian women are prohibited from marrying heathen men and vice versa, so if you want a consistent Christian wife you need to convert.
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cb855f No.7183
>>7181
Then I'd probably go down the karaite route, only to seek out a rabbi when my social skills fails me.
I find it strange that christianity, which exemplifies how the jewish rule of law is deficient, seems so hard to teach.
George Fox managed to (barely) stay within the system.
And Joseph Smith crafted a new one in the same tradition.
Are there any living renegades like this?
Any active communities with the guts to take it upon themselves to form new societies?
Are there remnants of such movements in recent memory?
<Don't assume your interpretation of a book is any more complete than another one.
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cb855f No.7187
>>7183
That's right, the rastafari are keeping the tradition alive.
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eb55ad No.7188
>>7183
>Don't assume your interpretation of a book is any more complete than another one.
Relativism is self refuting
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cb855f No.7189
>>7188
No relativism necessary, just determinism and awareness of the stochastic nature of things.
Christianity whithers away, and my generation has broken continuity.
Should scandinavia just change the flags and start teaching arabic in school?
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eb55ad No.7190
>>7189
What you said is relativist. You're asserting that truth claims in textual interpretation can't be made absolutely.
>Should scandinavia just change the flags and start teaching arabic in school?
No, why would that be my position? Why would that be Christian at all?
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cb855f No.7193
Maybe syrian refugees can help reinvigorate Armaic.
There are so many awesome languages.
>>7190
>You're asserting that truth claims in textual interpretation can't be made absolutely.
<Even worse than that, I am asserting that thruth claims cannot be made absolutely, even in person.
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eb55ad No.7194
>>7193
Ok, so you're a relativist
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cb855f No.7196
>>7194
If that's your word for it, then I guess I am.
I consider it a fault of society, when the rule of law is unable to distinguish truth from falsehood.
Which is why I am asking for sects that have been able to keep the spirit of objective truth alive.
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eb55ad No.7197
>>7196
Well now you're making anti-relativist statements. Which is it? Does truth exist or not?
Christianity is anti-relativist. It is objectivist. It is a series of truth claims made via special revelation, the Bible.
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cb855f No.7199
>>7197
I thought objectivist was the libertarian slogan.
Either way, it results in less authority for the government.
It is a series of thruth claims?
Then I must have misunderstood.
I always thought of christianity as a kind of insanity plea, a licence to make up your own rules when the local laws got unbearably complex. Hence religious freedom amounts to the right to revert to less feudal intrusion from the nasty lords.
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eb55ad No.7200
>>7199
Objectivist has that meaning too. I just meant to stress objectivity.
Yes, Christianity is a series of truth claims. Those claims are all in the field of theology.
What is the point of this thread?
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cb855f No.7201
>>7200
To learn about christian denominations with a solid internal justice system.
Because, as stated, I intend to reproduce, and I would like my kids to grow up trusting their community.
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e3cc75 No.7235
wtf is "orthodox atheist"
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cb855f No.7236
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cb855f No.7238
>>7235
Someone who rejects corrupted teachings, yet has a geopolitical interest in keeping their country together.
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3eec91 No.7240
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d4e78f No.7241
>>7112
So you see that religions/tribes/cultures/etc. have beneficial effects on a society (in this case, you seem to be particularly focusing on trust bonds and unity, as well as producing chaste women), yet at the same time, want a community that has a malleable moral code? Plus, you also seem to have a view of religion that roughly lines up with the Jesse Ventura quote "religion is a crutch for the weak-minded" >>7199 and in general come across as a relativist.
Firstly, we're not going to help you find a Christian woman that you can just play pretend at religion with enough to benefit from her values, because according to our values, a Christian woman should marry a man who is also a genuine follower of the faith.
Second, the strength of Christianity's values, that you admire for it's positive effect on society that you wish to take advantage of in the first place, are the product of Christianity being the opposite extreme of moral relativism. Our Lord proclaims through us, absolute moral truth.
The most charitable way I can put this, is that you either need to rethink your position on Christianity and become a sincere believer, or you need to look elsewhere. Because you're not going to find what you're currently looking for here.
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cb855f No.7245
>>7241
I consider Chastity and fidelity to be related but different.
No, not as a crutch for the weak minded, but as a demographic lever.
Malleable moral code, as in not bigoted.
Or too neurotic to develop an independent personality.
I've seen too many people being committed to impossible standards they were too insecure to challenge.
I'm not looking to play pretend. If anything I am considering reinvigorating my culture, but I am being met with hostility, when I am talking about a feature of my culture, equipped only with honesty. Us vs them. Believers vs unbelievers. A healthy society has both coexisting in peace.
And I am not looking to take any more advantage of a woman, than she would be taking of me.
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cb855f No.7246
>>7123
>>7241
Don't worry, the Cylons will take care of it..?
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6226f4 No.7247
>>7245
If you’re looking at Christianity as a means to an end, it will not work. If you’re not interested in real, absolute truth, it will not work. If you view society as mutual deception or if you view marriage as two people taking advantage of one another then it will not work. I don’t see someone so self-important finding a good woman anyway.
>equipped only with honesty
Not intellectual honesty. You’ve come here to learn how to use a “demographic lever” which you compare to an “insanity plea” to “change your culture” but you assure us you don’t intend to play pretend.
If you want to change society, you must start with yourself. And if you don’t intend to change your inner self, it won’t work.
I see you dropped a “m’lady” somewhere. If this thread is an über-fedora cosplay let me applaud you for a job well done
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cb855f No.7250
>>7247
>Mutual deception
<You lost me
Are hethens assumed to be deceptive?
>Intellectual honesty
I beg to differ. Russel conjugation, which you have highlighted, highlights my biases from the outset.
You are free to interpret as you please, and you choose to take offence.
Indeed, real change starts with the individual.
>Absolute moral truth
Insofar as it can be approximated, it is best demonstrated in authentic human relations.
>Self importance
<See hattuja
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6226f4 No.7252
>>7250
Do you not see how it is dishonest to propagate a belief system that you don’t personally hold? And for purely selfish reasons?
>You choose to take offense
Of course I take offense when someone lies to me. Just because you hide behind a pseudo-intellectual veneer of (misapplied) psychology buzzwords doesn’t shield you from criticism. Now you are posting in bad faith
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cb855f No.7259
>>7252
I would not propagate any part of the tradition.
Besides, it would be for the good of my family, my tribe, and my lineage. All things that are greater than myself.
I welcome the criticism, but it baffles me how you consider it dishonest for me to ask around for compatible sects.
So let me get this straight:
If you declare a nonconformist interpretation,
then you are judged as deceptive by those who disagree with it.
From my perspective, at worst I would be a dissenter, like the quakers. Yet you insist that I am dishonest.
For recognizing that the institution no longer fulfills the intended role?
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d4e78f No.7264
>>7259
This comes off as mental gymnastics at best, and trolling at worst.
Look, see this?:
>"How do you do, fellow Christians/*insert trad culture here*/etc.? I too, follow your beliefs. I would like to take a wife from amongst you.
<"Sure thing fellow Christian/*insert trad culture here*/etc.! Here you go!"
>*Thinks to self*: "Sweet! Now I just have to pretend to be a Christian/*insert trad culture here*/etc. that I don't even believe in, enough to continue to reap the benefits of being part of said culture!"
^This is not being a mere dissenter or schismatic. This is pure unadulterated deception. Period.
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cb855f No.7265
>>7112
Expecting to be spoonfed
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cb855f No.7268
>>7264
>Take a wife from amongst you
This seems to be the bone of contention
Contrast this scenario:
>Finds woman in selected tribe and proposes marriage.
>Settles where she feels safe.
>Learns her variation of the customs.
With this scenario:
>Finds woman and proposes marriage.
>Settles in a slightly different community.
>Learns customs from the neighbours.
<When I am disillusioned with the integrity of the customs handed down for me, and willing to learn others, I can only pretend, because if I abandon demonstrably defective edicts, I am by definition untrustworthy.
The first scenario will arguably provide a better quality of life for the woman.
>Religious freedom involves being able to modify morals to suit current challenges.
It seems as if me currently not trusting the intentions of my governing entity, disqualify me from seeking out alternatives worthy of my trust.
<So if you do not believe what a liar tells you, you are incapable of believing what an honest man tells you as well.
Denying atheists cultural mobility only reinforces relativism.
Supposing you were a cult member who thought your community was up to no good, should you be denied the possibility to cut your losses and assimilate into the mainstream culture?
My position is that mainstream culture has little to no moral integrity, and it manifests itself with me flagging a vote of no confidence (atheism).
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d4e78f No.7282
>>7268
Here's your gold medal, good sir. You've earned it.
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6226f4 No.7284
>>7259
Maybe I’m starting to fully understand your ridiculous, barely articulated proposal. You want us to suggest to you a place where you can relocate to. A place where most people are Christian, because you believe such a setting is better for your future family’s upbringing. You would also like us to suggest to you what flavor of Christian woman would be best for you to marry and reproduce with, for the same reason. But apart from desiring the societal impact of Christian living you have no favorable estimation of Christian beliefs nor any intent to become a Christian nor any intent to raise your children to be Christian. Is that closer?
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cb855f No.7296
>>7284
I appreciate the effort you are putting into understanding my perspective. Allow me to elaborate on it from a capitalist point of view.
>Cue twilight zone intro
Imagine being born in a completely secular country which claims to be as christian as it gets.
Your insurance policy is expensive as fuck, so you decide to tidy up.
Life insurance? Bah, I'll die either way, so let's spend money on the living instead. Now, what if after cancelling your state covered life insurance policy, you discover that this policy also includes the right to a fair trial?
I want my children to grow up with a functioning justice system.
Because the prosecutor or judge may beleive that all persons answering no to a certain question, are not worthy of any trust.
Would a christian submit to a secular court of law, knowing that a secular judge would predictably favour statements from a secular plaintiff?
I would prefer for my offspring to have the sympathy of the court, and not be judged a priori, because they are perceptive enough to know that something is rotten in the state of denmark, as it were.
As long as the prescribed set of truth values preserve my childrens honesty, I would not mind if they chose to put christian in their passport, because then I'd know they would be treated well by self-proclaimed christians.
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6226f4 No.7375
>>7296
Are you saying folks are religiously discriminated against in your country? It doesn't seem like I'm getting clear answers here. My best advice then is to just move somewhere that's not a hellhole.
If, based on what you've said about justice systems, you're looking for somewhere with a Christian theocracy in charge, I don't think there are any except for Vatican City and Mt. Athos. One you can't live in if you don't work there, and the other doesn't allow women. So you're out of luck there.
If you're looking for a Christian cult or commune that lives in the woods or apart from society and government, I know no more than you do, probably. Closest people I'm aware of are the Amish.
If you're looking for a nice Christian community that treats people with fairness, then all I can suggest is to pick one where people have genuine faith and love. Might require some searching. I'd suggest the Midwest or Upper South of America but it really is a crapshoot to be honest. I fully support you raising your children Christian though; it's infinitely better they come to Christ through an atheist than not at all. But don't marry a Christian woman without converting first.
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bbbef7 No.7390
hey OP, you can't be a scientist without worshiping the order of the universe, i.e. Jesus Christ. Return to your religion and forsake heresy, or you will never find the happiness in family and community you seek.
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