/christianity/ -Sedevacantism

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File: 3081c89174fdeeb⋯.jpg (79.44 KB,1080x1176,45:49,Amored knight.jpg)

Sedevacantism Anonymous 01/18/20 (Sat) 21:20:44 f422e2 No.12154

I want to know, cathobros. What are your reasons for not being a sedevacantist? I saw this video and they seem to have a good argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWo-7uVR8yI

pic unrelated

____________________________

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01/19/20 (Sun) 05:57:34 9c8a6d No.12170

>>12154

Make more of an argument here. Nobody is gonna click a video with this little prompting.

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Anonymous 01/19/20 (Sun) 06:11:09 f422e2 No.12172

>>12170

I'm not a sedevacantist. I'm orthodox. I want to know why most catholic posters here are not sedevacantists.

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01/19/20 (Sun) 06:34:30 9c8a6d No.12178

>>12172

I imagine the default position is that without instruction otherwise why would a Catholic assume the apostolic succession failed and the Holy See of Rome is vacant. So open the floor a little and start the conversation! Why would a Catholic think the See is vacant?

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01/19/20 (Sun) 07:58:44 e4b664 No.12182

File: ce0f82cdbfcc3f8⋯.jpg (129.49 KB,1000x666,500:333,frankie.jpg)

>>12178

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01/19/20 (Sun) 10:41:32 c2a683 No.12183

>>12182

Most Catholics were born after Vatican 2 and the those that wern't aren't likely not be reactionaries or theologically adept enough unless someone gaslights them with cultist propaganda videos

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01/20/20 (Mon) 03:04:37 c28fcd No.12204

If I could magically know that Sedevacantists are right I would dispair so much I would lose it, the implications I have thought for a while are very strong. Example: if the new ordination rite is invalid, that means 99% of current priests are not priests but laymen, same with bishops, resulting that there are not licit masses nor sacraments but in few places in the world and I would be pretty much f—ed since the day I was born where I live.

Well, the SSPX still uses the old ordination rite but since they claim to not be sedevacantists (and try to get well with the hipotetical "antipope") their mass/sacraments would be valid but not licit thus offending God. According to sedes they would be practically schismatics, if I guess well. Still I don't live in an area with a SSPX center close.

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01/25/20 (Sat) 08:37:20 9c8a6d No.12435

>>12182

What is the origin of this image. I can't find it anywhere and it looks kinda fake

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01/25/20 (Sat) 23:45:59 eaaeac No.12451

Sedevecantism would be like saying the Apostles were not appropriate leaders of the infant Church because Peter denied Christ and couldn't walk on water and Christ called him Satan at Caesarea Philippi, or because all of them except John abandoned Him at the cross, or, oh man, did you hear what that Iscariot guy did? My point is the Church has been corrupt and screwing up from the very beginning. Just like Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Just like Noah got drunk. Just like Jacob was a total prick. Just like Moses killed the Egyptian and struck the rock in the wilderness. Just like Samson was tricked by Delilah. Just like David committed adultery. Just like Solomon took concubines and foreign gods. Just like Israel screwed up over and over and over again.

Basically, just because the person or institution God chooses and ordains screws up doesn't mean that that person or institution isn't authentically under divine protection. Yeah, the Catholic Church is going through some bad times… but the worst time to abandon ship is in the middle of a storm. Will the human-led Catholic Church eventually have its authority revoked? Yes. Does it have divine authority right now? Absolutely. Will it antagonize God as the End Times play out? Probably. History repeats.

>"The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

<The priests and Bishops sit in Peter's chair. So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

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01/26/20 (Sun) 00:14:33 628bce No.12453

File: 348b700c7f3b3ab⋯.jpg (1.47 MB,1439x2561,1439:2561,Screenshot_20200125-160638….jpg)

>>12451

>just because the person or institution God chooses and ordains screws up doesn't mean that that person or institution isn't authentically under divine protection.

This is the central sacred cow presupposition of Roman catholicism and it is entirely fabricated. God did not choose and ordain the Roman church and the papacy, he gave us the gospel and instituted a universal priesthood.

Sedevacantists are honest enough to see the emperor has no clothes and try and explain it. Establishment Catholics plug their ears and try to rationalize why it doesn't mean the obvious.

The broken papal system is a non issue for your spiritual life because it's a self imposed restriction. If my pastor misbehaves, the church dismisses him. If my church won't listen, I take my family to an orthodox church. If there are no suitable churches, I move or I plant one.

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01/26/20 (Sun) 03:29:42 e4b664 No.12455

File: cc6e48d42682c33⋯.jpg (131.71 KB,1200x574,600:287,unityoffaithvariety.jpg)

>>12451

the BISHOPRIC is founded on Peter. I'll take something most are familiar with: Canon 28 of Chalcedon:

"Following in every detail the decrees of the holy fathers, and taking cognizance of the canon just read of the 150 bishops dearly beloved of God who gathered under Theodosius the Great, emperor of pious memory, in the imperial city of Constantinople, New Rome, we ourselves have also decreed and voted the same things concerning the prerogatives of the most holy Church of the same Constantinople, New Rome. For the fathers rightly acknowledged the prerogatives of the throne of the Elder Rome because it was the Imperial City, and moved by the same consideration the 150 bishops beloved of God awarded the same prerogatives to the most holy throne of the New Rome, rightly judging that the city which is honored by the imperial authority and the senate and enjoys the same [civil] prerogatives as the imperial city of the Elder Rome, should also be magnified in ecclesiastical matters as she is, being second after her."

You can say all you want about Saint Leo not accepting it, but fact is this canon was considered ecumenical by the entire church (they also condemned a pope as a heretic, something that's impossible if you accept Vatican I… so the mindset of the Church was absolutely NOT Vatican I), and guess what? Leo didn't accept it because he thought it contradicted canons of Nicea. Nothing about a jure divino Papacy. What Saint Leo should have said, if Vatican I was true, is that the canon is HERETICAL. The 'holy fathers' did not give privileges to Rome, Jesus CHRIST gave these privileges (Matthew 16:18… so on and so forth). If you read Patristics, you know how much they honor and what language they use for Bishops (the Patriarch of Alexandria is called the Judge of the Universe… that's beyond even a Papacy if you think about it, that *literally* must mean that the Patriarch is like the Lord Jesus, a Judge of the Universe). The Filioque was banned by a council considered ecumenical by John VIII, before he was assassinated. The Filioque turns the Trinity into a Dyad, and it contradicts what Jesus said, that the Spirit PROCEEDS from the Father–the Son is BEGOTTEN from the Father. The Greek is very clear. Same with bread–Jesus uses ARTOS (leavened, regular) bread.

https://arizonaorthodox.com/eucharistic-bread-leavened-unleavened/

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01/26/20 (Sun) 22:24:33 9c8a6d No.12468

>>12453

This isn't really directed at your main argument but more your usage of image. The forged Donation of Constantine was very much a matter of an attempt to assume the secular authority of the Empire under the authority of the Bishop of Rome.

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