/christianity/ -Some questions

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Some questions 12/08/19 (Sun) 23:22:51 0d0b11 No.11308

My main problems with Christianity is the view that Jesus == God and the trinity.

I want to get out of secularism asap as it's a sinking ship.

Could you guys clear away my doubt about these two things?

Also, please do it without ONLY quoting scripting.

The authority of God comes from the fact that his word is true, not because it's written in some book by people.

____________________________

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12/08/19 (Sun) 23:56:21 8da852 No.11310

>The authority of God comes from the fact that his word is true, not because it's written in some book by people.

What a strange argument; you want people to prove that God's word is true but only if they hobble themselves and not rely on the book that proves that God's word is true. Why are you so interested in extra-Biblical sources? Why should you think that whose are true?

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12/09/19 (Mon) 01:18:42 74a2d1 No.11311

We believe God is triune because that's what scripture indicates, and because there's no logical contradiction involved.

Did you mean to ask only for scripture references? Or did you mean you want the relevant passages coupled with theological explanation?

Either way, here's a link you should visit

https://carm.org/what-is-the-trinity

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12/10/19 (Tue) 07:49:54 50d1d0 No.11388

>>11308

>My main problems with Christianity is the view that Jesus == God and the trinity.

If that is your main problem, I would be thankful for that and maybe read the Gospel of Mark. I've got issues with translations and one even more disturbing is how suspicious I am of Saul of Tarsus. 51A.D. he is writing the letters and though never seeing JC while alive, yet there are those who have like James the Just and others and it sort of reeks of a subversion plot to be the ones to tell the story.

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12/10/19 (Tue) 13:13:02 e7f04a No.11395

>>11308

Consider if you will the hypercube, mathematically it is possible, but we cannot fully comprehend it.

Likewise, we may not fully comprehend the concept of the Trinity, but that does not make it impossible.God is a being who created our universe and is thus not bound by its limitations.

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12/10/19 (Tue) 14:10:40 c38144 No.11397

>>11388

Make a dedicated thread and present your anti-paul argument or keep your mouth shut, naysayer

You don't get to make such a bold statement offhand and be taken seriously

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12/10/19 (Tue) 20:56:14 50d1d0 No.11406

>>11397

I am not at the point of making a thread but will if I get there. I would consider why my statement offends you so that you seek to admonish. Though Saul wrote from prison that he had met with James and another from the 12, it was only mentioned to convince another of rejection of demands for circumcision and the old ways. Accept roman rule is a theme and be loving towards them as in Jesus's divine nature. Those create a conflict in myself knowing the nature of those seeking to rule over thee.

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12/10/19 (Tue) 21:30:21 2544a1 No.11408

File: 090faf68fb55243⋯.gif (70.21 KB,113x162,113:162,090faf68fb5524336f5f5e07f3….gif)

>>11308

>My main problems with Christianity is the view that Jesus == God and the trinity.

Jesus is the Word incarnated.

>The authority of God comes from the fact that his word is true, not because it's written in some book by people.

Yes. Some Christians tread the Bible as a Holy Book dictated by God Himself. That's Bible idolatry. Muslims do that. We're supposed to avoid it. The Bible was inspired by God (by the Holy Ghost) but it's still written by humans.

Ok, so… the Trinity. First, it's called a mystery for a reason: don't expect to ever fully comprehend it. That doesn't mean "don't try it", just that there's always more.

Imagine we have God, at the beginning of time. Well, actually, before time. And there He is, all omniscient. When limited being like us try to know something, we create a copy of it in our mind: an imperfect copy, an abstraction.

God, when He understands something, creates a perfect copy of it, cause He can understand things fully. When God understands Himself he creates the "concept" of God, fully realized, with all it's characteristics. And that includes existence. That "concept" is the Logos,in Greek, the Word. Not the spoken word, but more like the underlying concept too. It's interesting to point out "Logos" can also mean order.

So, we have God and the Word. We call them God the Father and the Son. Both are fully God, but at the same time are different. And in the same way the Word is created when God knows Himself, once he has that concept he loves it. And from that love we get the Holy Ghost. The Son comes from His intellect, the Ghost from His love.

Now, to love a concept you first need that concept (duh). That's where the "fililoque" comes from: the Spirit necessitates the existence of the Son. Those who reject the "fililoque" point out it's the Father doing the loving. As far as I know, both positions have fair points and it comes down to the exact meaning of word in Greek and Latin (the Catholic version of the Creed in Greek has no "fililoque").

Now, something important: God cannot no know Himself, nor not love Himself. The Father doesn't create the Son and the Spirit through His will. That's why they are not created, why they are "begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father".

Hopefully, if I wasn't too unclear, you can begin to see why Jesus is God. He is the Word incarnated. The Logos in flesh. The "concept" of God in human form. If He was God the Father, that'd be impossible, and that's probably why the concept of "Jesus = God" is problematic to you. But He's the Son, and as we saw, He's fully God too.

This appears at the beginning of the Gospel of John (John 1:1-18). It's a short paragraph but a densely packed one. I recommend you read it carefully, with a good Bible with annotations. It'll help you understand it a bit better (to the extent this all is understandable).

I hope I was able to help you, OP.

Cheers

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12/10/19 (Tue) 21:33:30 c73fce No.11409

>>11406

It's upsetting because denying the authority of the Pauline Epistles is a common claim by fringe heretics on the internet, ones that don't even affirm the divinity of Jesus or the doctrine of the Trinity.

If you're really looking for the Christian answer, all of scripture is directly inspired by God, it's not just a record of events that a credible witness is cataloguing for history. Paul was affirmed in the new testament church, the early church, and in all church history.

I don't know what you're getting at about internal conflict.

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12/10/19 (Tue) 22:26:13 50d1d0 No.11410

>>11409

> ones that don't even affirm the divinity of Jesus or the doctrine of the Trinity.

That is not an issue in this case, I assure. The scriptures tell of the 12s difficulty in understanding what was being taught to them, they were not perfect beings, despite being inspired, taught first hand, by the right hand of God. Every gospel is inspired though they tell their version of what happened, in some cases what they heard happened. In regards to internal conflict, perhaps I see too much as divide and conquer, maybe because I see it all around today. I think that those who seek dominion over others, prefer them submit peacefully and convert without resistance. Therein lies the conflict.

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12/12/19 (Thu) 00:01:26 0d0b11 No.11433

>>11408

you're the first person to actually make sense of this mess, thank you.

i'll read up on the entire bible again when i'm done with my current book/exams and when i do i'll be sure to pay extra attention to John.

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12/12/19 (Thu) 09:51:06 2544a1 No.11438

File: 2fdb6c8e10d83a8⋯.jpg (34.45 KB,601x310,601:310,sky jesus.jpg)

>>11433

>you're the first person to actually make sense of this mess, thank you.

You're welcome, man, glad to be of help.

>i'll read up on the entire bible again when i'm done with my current book/exams and when i do i'll be sure to pay extra attention to John.

If I may, I recommend sticking to the New Testament, or at least starting with it. As Christians, we read the whole Bible under the lenses of the NT. Jesus fulfilled the Old Alliance; we are not bound by the laws of the Hebrew Covenant, but we have to act following the spirit behind those laws: love of God and love of Neighbor.

The NT is to be read literally (when it comes to Revelations, we take literally that John had that vision; the meaning of the vision, of course, has to be interpreted). In the OT, myth, history, civil law and religious law are all mixed together. It's definitely worth reading, just be careful not to extract any stone-carved conclusions from it.

And I know this may rub some feathers the wrong way, but… Jesus did not write the Bible. What Jesus left on this Earth, his worldly legacy, was a community of disciples and believers, the Church. The Bible is a compilation of texts this community found to be essential, the distilled essence of their faith. That means that, when reading the Bible, we to keep in mind it's context: it is not all there is to our faith, nor an "All-You-Need" manual with clear cut instructions: "Theology professors hate him! Follow this 378 easy tricks to get to Heaven!". Learning about the Early Church (even if it's from Wikipedia and YT videos) can be quite helpful.

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12/16/19 (Mon) 19:46:18 5149ff No.11490

>>11308

"I want to get out of secularism asap as it's a sinking ship."

The hell are you talking about? Seculars are rising every year.. the ship is sailing just fine.

A book does not prove that their idea of a God is true. There is no logic to that statement. I can claim the same thing with any book given that logic. I just came here because I'm surprised a place like 8chan actually has a christian board of all things.

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01/01/20 (Wed) 20:49:44 1fd48a No.11796

>>11308

>trinity

Agustinian approach may work for you OP. This is not strictly agustinian but analogies of the mind worked for me:

Think of a man, or a man's mind. Clearly, a man is one and indivisible (no multiple personality disorder) but he is not unifaceted either. The man decapitating his enemies wth his sword and the man playing and smiling with his child are the same man, but are cleary not the same man either. Christ is one facet, the Father is another.

>the bible

A reasonable explanation is that the assembly of all believers, the "ekklessia", guided by God, declared to have faith that the Bible (which is not A book, but a mosaic of many books and layered interpretations) is the true word of God. Hence why the catholic, orthodox and protestant bibles are slightly divergent between themselves as their faithful disagree on contentious points. To a greater degree, that can be applied to the marcionite Bible and the gnostic Bible, vastly more divergent, and the jewish bible, even more divergent. You can't be certain of it, but that's what the christians have faith to be the truth (in their cath/prot/orthodox flavour, even marcionite and jewish) that will help them inherit the world to come. By their fruits they shall be judged.

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01/02/20 (Thu) 01:11:47 fbdd32 No.11802

>>11490

Why wouldn't there be a Christian board?

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01/03/20 (Fri) 05:42:29 7e6f59 No.11819

>>11438

>>11408

Great apologetics, man. Proud Catholic here.

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01/04/20 (Sat) 12:40:24 474d99 No.11831

>>11308

Ask Jesus to become personal to you.

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