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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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b325a1 No.856490

I am currently reading "The kingdom of god is within you" by Leo Tolstoi and I am very puzzled by the "extremist" view he asserts.

Although I totally agree that we ought not to provoke war or having disproportionate answer against aggression or violence, I do not get the point on completely giving up on self-defence. In our times, it would just being end up to being erased by some other cultures/religions.To make his point, he often invokes martyrdom but to me it really looks like suicide. For example, a knife-wielder begins a killing spree and I have an oppotunity to stop him. Do you really think he will stop if I face him telling him what he is doing is bad ? Should I flee and let my fellow people die because of the greater good and it was just their time ? It seems very odd to me.

Also, he also defends the stance that we should not ask for government help (by having recourse to authorities or laws). Considering the world as it is, it is just nearly impossible because the government knows you exist. I could go into the the mountain and starve to death or become a savage but it also looks like suicide to me, which is a terrible thing to the eye of god.

At the end, it seems contradictory to live in this world and having no involvement in it whatsoever because it seems to end by a passive form of suicide. On one hand god created us to live within this world but on the other hand we should do nothing in it and let it rot ? Maybe I missed something, if anyone can enlight me on these subject, I would be very grateful.

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4a8d2f No.856493

>>856490

>it would just being end up to being erased by some other cultures/religions.

God doesn't need you. In all honesty, you need to let this sink in before anything else. He doesn't need you. Your efforts mean nothing. He conquered the Roman Empire from the catacombs of humble martyrs. He also preserved the Church in Europe by the efforts of humble believers and monks, during a time of barbarians in the dark ages. And in Tolstoy's case (Russia), the Church thrived there despite all that the Bolshevik's threw at it. Or the Ottoman's previously did to the Greeks. And they were all following the example of Christ himself: The rightful King of the universe, who humbled himself and died on a cross, and bore humiliating torture and insult that were beneath him.

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4a8d2f No.856494

"Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also." - John 15:20

And anyone who presumes to be greater than the Master, that they're the exception, that they have a better way than their own King, that they should not endure what he did, is not actually following Christ. And even if we're not called to directly be martyrs, every Christian is still called to be a martyr in their heart. To always prepared to for this final test, if necessary.

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, 'If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?" - Matthew 16:24-26

Everything a Christian is called to do is a denial of self. If not literal death at the hands of enemies, it's still a call to literally throw your life away in other ways. We must give it all up to God. Be it one's relationships or leaving old notions of worldly success in the garbage.

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1ee5cc No.856495

I couldn't make it passed the part where he says that the governments are not ordained by God which goes against scripture. There has got to be a better way for Christian Anarchism to exist without losing the Christian part.

The part about no resistance to evil is actually biblical but taken to an extreme, it's also a very hard passage to follow.

>Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

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77402b No.856497

Check out "Jesus and Non-Violence: A Third Way"

Good take on the "turn the other cheek" and the other two things mentioned at the same time. The Jews would have understood these parables slightly differently than mere passivism.

I'm wrestling with the same things currently. For instance wives are supposed to submit to their husbands "in everything". But every Christian I talk to has a caveat for when a husband goes "too far" and the wife is justified in rebelling against that authority.

I have a ton of trouble separating laws that are just plain inconvenient and… frankly stupid, the sheer number of them is crazy in itself… versus laws that are demonstrably ungodly.

Another fun book is "Everything I want to do is illegal" I'm reading now.

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