b5f656 No.854174
>heliocentrism
<"infallible" catholic church: REEEEE MUH ARISTOTLE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Lol yeah, the Roman Catholic Church and its Popery are sure infallible alright. lmao
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fe1e8c No.854181
Again, one more time:
The Pope is infallible when he speaks on faith and morals, not physics.
1) He has to say he's speaking from the seat. That is, that it's not just his opinion but infallible.
2) He hast to be a true Pope. Since there were times when there were multiple Popes, this is important.
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b5f656 No.854184
>>854181
Except, the Roman Catholic conception of infallibility has changed over time in response to these kinds of circumstances, essentially moving the goal post. The reasons your theologians got so butt blasted by Galileo was because his ideas were seen as directly contradictory to Catholic doctrine at the time which was steeped in Aristotelianism (and still is for some reason despite the fact that Aristotle was wrong about so many things and our methods of for gaining knowledge have advanced far beyond what the Greeks understood).
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fe1e8c No.854186
Faith and morals, not physics.
That protestants keep telling lies about the Holy Mother Church shows their religion is false. The truth is not in them.
Show me where in the dogma of the Church that we must believe in the earth being at the center of the universe. It's not there. It's not an infallible teaching of the Church and it never was.
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b5f656 No.854190
>>854186
>"Second. I say that, as you know, the Council [of Trent] prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the earth, and that the earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the center of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy Fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators. Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter, it is on the part of the ones who have spoken. It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the mouths of the prophets and apostles.
>Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, 1615
Your very own theologians held geocentrism to be apart of the faith of the Catholic Church which came from Aristotle, and they interpreted scripture through and Aristotelian lens just as they continue to do except they have moved the goal post a bit to conform to modern standards. Sorry but I take the plain meaning of scripture over what philosophers and church fathers say.
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687d08 No.854192
>>854174
>Sorry but I take the plain meaning of scripture over what philosophers and church fathers say.
If that was true then you'd be a Christian instead of a Lutheran.
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fe1e8c No.854195
>>854190
I'm not sure why you keep insisting on what the teachings of the Catholic church are when I tell you "Faith and Morals" are the limits of Papal infallibility, and then only under certain conditions.
Every protestant here seems to insist, with no evidence from Church dogma, of what the Church's teaching is.
It's insane.
So some Pope was wrong about physics and fell for some pagan's belief. BFD. Many protestants still deny the Big Bang, which the Catholic Church does not.
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fe1e8c No.854196
>>854190
Oh, Saint Bellarmine has a good Catechism and wasn't speaking infallibly.
so, not even relevant.
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fe1e8c No.854200
>>854190
Mind you, there is a papal encyclical that you can't believe even a Saint and doctor of the Church above a Pope when speaking infallibly. You can't quote a saint to refute a Pope speaking ex-cathedra.
Only faith and Morals, not physics.
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e90a1e No.854212
And faith and morals means whatever the Romanist wants it to mean in any given circumstance. Trying to define in a precise and consistent way what qualifies as ex cathedra is like trying to nail jello to a wall.
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c010b1 No.854214
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fe1e8c No.854226
>>854212
Faith and morals means "faith" and "morals".
Tell whatever lies you want.
We have to answer for every blasphemy and false teachings against the church of Christ that we utter.
Death, judgement, Heaven or Hell.
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1928d9 No.854252
>>854181
How do you decide which Pope is legitimate if there are multiple popes elected by the same College of Cardinals, as in the Papal Schism? Do deacons priests, bishops, and Cardinals consecrated by an antipope have legitimate apostolic succession? And if not, then how many, if any, current deacons, priests, bishops, and cardinals have legitimate apostolic succession? If none of the clergy consecrated during the Avignon Papacy were legitimate, then would it be accurate to say that the line of succession has been broken for centuries, meaning that the legitimate Catholic Church has ceased to exist?
At the very least, it would explain how far the church has fallen from grace over the last sixty-odd years.
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1928d9 No.854253
>>854226
Faith and morals mean very different things if you're a Jesuit.
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40eea6 No.854254
Copernicus heliocentric model was published 30 years before and it was a Bishop that urged the man to publish it.
Galileo didnt have evidence for his theories and also nothing happened to the man.
The case is simply used for antiChurch propaganda drones to gargle on.
Everyone read this>
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-misunderstood-historical-event
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fe1e8c No.854270
>>854252
If you don't know who is the Pope (or if there even is one) you simply follow the teachings on the faith and morals of the true Popes who came before.
I mean, if you hear that a Pope blessed a God Damned pagan idol and dragged the wicked thing before the alter of God, you can be pretty sure that (1) he's not the Pope and (2) not even Catholic. Not like that would ever be an issue.
In short, a true Pope must follow the unchanging dogma of the Church. He is to teach the faith. Something new comes up, like they have a test for syphilis that requires that the guy being tested masturbate into a cup. is that okay? New issue that never happened before and the Pope, drawing on the teachings of the church, renders his judgment: it's illicit. Nothing about Church teaching was changed, it was just explained.
Ordination
A bishop in a state of mortal sin can still do the rite of ordination if his intent is to ordain the priest in the Catholic faith. That's why it was said, at one time, that Lutherans had a chance for heaven because the Lutheran ministers were just Catholic priests in a state of mortal sin because of Heresy. Same for Anglicans. Since then, the Lutheran and Anglican faiths have changed, however to where Sacrament of Baptism is not a washing of the soul and the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is not the actual body and blood of Christ, thus they're done in bad faith. That ended any path to sanctifying grace, sadly.
>At the very least, it would explain how far the church has fallen from grace over the last sixty-odd years
The church fell from grace because we rejected the Catholic faith and fell into sin. Same Bible story done over and over!
To be Catholic, we have to accept the entire belief. Smorgasboard Catholics are an oxymoron. Some say the belief that was rejected was the belief against contraception. 90% of Novus ordo support contraception! They reject Catholic belief. Another one, that most "Trad Catholics" reject, is the teachings of the Council of Basel (part of the Council of Florence). This taught against allowing heretics, pagans and jews especially from attending universities (almost all Catholic at the time), ordered Catholics to not attend any of their services, or associating with them. Given that Jews are behind most of the porn, the lies on the news, and spread wickedness, that is why the Catholic Church fell. That is why the Great Apostasy is in the Vatican. You will find very few Catholics today, trad or otherwise, who will refuse to knowingly associate with jews. To even admit such is a Catholic belief will bring the ZOG on the head of the Church.
>>854253
Some Jesuits are faithful, and some are as Pope Francis.
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fe1e8c No.854271
>>854254
A good read. Do you think the Protestants would read it?
I just went for the heart of the matter; the Church only claims infallibility on faith and morals, not science.
See how far that got with the Protestants? Without evidence, they lecture Catholics how they think Infallibility works. They don't even CARE if they're spouting falsehoods.
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c010b1 No.854272
>>854271
yes every educated person who reads primary sources knows galileo was a troll
You do not apply the same standard to catholic criticisms of protestant theology. You perpetually engage in strawman arguments around sola fide.
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2bf1af No.854274
This pope is just the worst one in our time.
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fe1e8c No.854277
>>854272
>yes every educated person who reads primary sources knows galileo was a troll
How did you get that? Galileo was a good Catholic and a scientist. On this issue, he couldn't back up a heliocentric solar system.
And as I said, the Catholic Church is infallible on faith and morals, not physics.
>You perpetually engage in strawman arguments around sola fide.
I don't think you know what sola fide means. There's one Baptist going round that it doesn't really mean by faith alone. I don't care about baptist double talk as you can't reason with the unreasonable.
>>854274
That's the position of the FSSP. The state of the Papacy is a matter of facts and not faith, however. I believe that the SSPX and the FSSP agree on matters of faith, but may differ on Church law like which Cannon Law is correct.
As a member of laity I'm still obligated to keep the faith and go to a true mass. I worry about such things but the Baptist use that worry as a weapon of ridicule and personal attack, so lets not get into that here in front of the heretics.
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c010b1 No.854279
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fe1e8c No.854281
>>854279
>Watch my Hour long youtube garbage.
Tell me why I should watch your Pepe movie.
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c010b1 No.854282
>>854281
it's an explanation of the question you asked. You're really obnoxious.
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fe1e8c No.854283
>>854282
>You're really obnoxious.
Ad homs are arguments against the man and are considered to be fallacies of relevancy. They say nothing of themselves and are gibberish.
If you're against science, get off the computer and use smoke signals.
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c010b1 No.854285
>>854283
We're not arguing. You just give me fatigue.
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fe1e8c No.854288
>>854285
>We're not arguing.
correct. An argument is a set of logical premises and sound logic to produce a conclusion which is true if the premises are true.
In a logical discussion, the premises are laid out and the logic exposed so that it can be studied. Is premise A really true? Is the logic "All scripture is divinely inspired, Ergo all church teaching is scripture" valid logic? (hint: it's a fallacy).
Other fallacies:
<You just give me fatigue
<You're really obnoxious.
<See my really long cartoon.
<There's other rational ways to think than logic (a tautological fallacy).
Where religion comes in is to cover the areas where science, the logical study of God's creation comes in. There's no science that can prove the odd personal observation of the human soul. There is no soul detector, no way to tell an human soul from an animal soul from a rock or a computer. No way for science to explain the creation of the Universe (big Mush according to my physics advisor).
The God made the Universe and everything in it (including dinosaurs) as well as carved the 10 commandments in stone. God Made us, and inspired his church to create the Bible and according to the Bible (three or more gathered, creation of the Church upon Saint Peter) and the church.
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40eea6 No.854311
>>854271
Its not a caths vs prots issue anyway. Atheists/progressives use this case to attack Christianity as a whole so every Christian should know the real story.
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fe1e8c No.854316
>>854311
>Atheists/progressives use this case to attack Christianity
Yes. That is what this thread is about, isn't it?
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e90a1e No.854324
>>854270
>Some Jesuits are faithful, and some are as Pope Francis.
To be honest Mitchell Pacwa is probably the only jesuit in the modern age who isn't a raving communist
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71f270 No.854393
>>854270
That looks like heresy to me, and one of the gravest nature. Isn't that an offense for which a pope can be deposed? Why does no one do anything?
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f7eefb No.854465
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>854174
The Inquisition =/= the Magisterium
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7e8ed8 No.854467
>>854184
>Aristotle was wrong about so many things
elaborate please
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b41f84 No.854744
>>854393
That's because Vatican II is a false sect and is not the Catholic church. Antipope Francis is not the Pope. The last valid Pope was Pope Pius XII.
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