52fae8 No.854118 [Last50 Posts]
On every single thread it’s literally just Baptists and Catholics arguing over and over again about the most mundane stuff.
You have Catholics saying “HURR DURR KJV UNICORNS HURR DURR”
Then you have the Baptist’s saying “HURR DURR YOU WORSHIP SAINTS AND MARY HURRRR”
Both of which are just blatantly wrong? Can’t you guys just grow up and present actual problems in Baptist or Catholic theology without devolving into pointless name calling and arguements without basis?
If you want to debate then actually have a solid debate otherwise you just look like idiots.
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9c96b1 No.854119
>>854118
Stop yer bitchin' and Start a good thread.
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7cf728 No.854124
>>854118
>Both of which are just blatantly wrong?
Actually that second one is true
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9c96b1 No.854125
>>854124
What's true is that some protestants are either sadly misinformed, or willfully slander the Church with falsehoods thus commit the mortal sins of false witness as well as Blasphemy.
Rather than showering the board with deceptions and lies about the Holy Mother Church that are endlessly refuted and those refutations ignored; our Protestant brothers should say why their one particular religion (out of the thousand or so protestant denominations) is the correct one and all the rest our wrong.
Without resorting to the "wall of scripture" defense, that protestants use to ward off devils and contain no reason and argument at all.
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9c96b1 No.854127
I mean, unicorns are in the KJV. It's not like unicorns aren't in the KJV.
One anon says they're supposed to be rhinoceroses But Rhinoceros has been known and the term used since the 14th century, and the KJV was written in the 17th. That excuse doesn't really wash, but it was probably more of a smart-ass remark than meant to be an argument.
The questions I've asked, like when did the ONE Christian church that is now named Catholic for lack of a better word, stop being Christian? When is the exact date that the Holy Ghost stopped inspiring the Christian (Catholic) Church? One would think it would have to be after the Books of the Bible were determined. It's important so we know what encyclicals and councils Protestants consider to be valid and which they don't. So, it would be a valid Church up until the Bible was determined, right? Did the Church fall as Martin Luther was nailing his theses to the door? Did the Church fall when King Henry wanted to divorce his wife? Never got an answer.
Baptist say that their Church began in 33 AD, but it clearly dates back to 1609 Amsterdam and John Smyth.
Not sure why the complaint about cheap shots about unicorns when every other post in Catholic General is "Catholics are pagans". Okay, then ban all Catholics from this board. That at least would stop you from having to confront the Truth of the Holy Mother Church.
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9c96b1 No.854130
>>854127
Mind you, there's a constraint: Christ promised the Gates of hell won't prevail, so you have to show where the Christian Church went. You can't have a 1000 year gap.
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66af98 No.854132
>>854127
>Baptist say that their Church began in 33 AD, but it clearly dates back to 1609 Amsterdam and John Smyth.
Which is why timelines such as pic related have empty space between 33 A.D. and the Reformation. Baptists can't scrape up any existence of their supposed "church" during those 1500 years.
>>854118
Their arguments are laughable and our discourse reflects that. Interesting how we've endured slander such as "saint worship" and "Pope worship" since this board's inception, but only now that we point out the so-called infallible KJV's mention of unicorns is this level of discourse a serious problem.
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3e47c0 No.854141
>>854127
>But Rhinoceros has been known and the term used since the 14th century, and the KJV was written in the 17th.
I literally showed you a screenshot of the original 1611 KJV where it said in the margin "||or, rhinocerots" in the old blackletter english font. Maybe you are not at a reading comprehension to be making these kinds of arguments, anon.
>but it was probably more of a smart-ass remark than meant to be an argument.
I literally linked where in the 1611 version itself it said rhinoceros. Do you not understand that? Do you realize how inept these arguments are yet maybe?
>So, it would be a valid Church up until the Bible was determined, right?
The church has always been valid, and has never included catholics from the very inception of catholicism under Constantine. It has always existed outside of that as the chart shows.
>I keep asking him "when he stopped beating his wife." Never got an answer.
The premise of the question is loaded, anon. False assumptions. Catholicism is a cult that split off from and was never part of the church. They just came later and took credit for things that they never did, such as the inspiration of the Scriptures which was by God and not men. As Paul said in Galatians 1, "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."
>>854132
At least this guy is trying to make a point using Scripture. You on the other hand have not drawn a single support from Biblical statements anywhere. It's all manmade stuff from some minor cult somewhere that now has a pantheist for its leader and yet claims this man is supposed to be infallible. I guess only when it's convenient would someone invoke that, like when they want to be able to say something they personally like is infallible, and not the 99% of the other time. This is just a cult that exists somewhere out there in imaginary false religion space with strange, bizarre leaders. Nothing in the Bible can be used to show that the church is based in Rome. It's all from later documents that are forged and unreliable, and straight up inventions of the devil. Made by people that worship false and other gods not found anywhere in the Bible, none of which has anything, zero my friend, to do with Christianity.
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3e47c0 No.854142
>>854141
And here is the scan of the 1611 Bible again, anon.
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60e86d No.854143
>>854118
That's why I almost only post in /cg/, but protestants go there and sh*t up the thread anyways.
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1e75ed No.854145
>>854127
>I mean, unicorns are in the KJV. It's not like unicorns aren't in the KJV.
>One anon says they're supposed to be rhinoceroses But Rhinoceros has been known and the term used since the 14th century, and the KJV was written in the 17th. That excuse doesn't really wash, but it was probably more of a smart-ass remark than meant to be an argument.
I'm not a Baptist or a KJV Onlyist. But the "muh unicorns" is a bad argument, literally atheist-tier. Pic related is from 1790, showing that "unicorn" was a name for rhino even back then.
Besides, there are FAR worse translations in the KJV. Trust me.
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9c96b1 No.854146
>>854145
These desperate apologetic for the KJV, which was written not by biblical scholars but by literary folks looking to make a good story, are pathetic.
IF they meant rhino, they'd say rhino like the Douay-Rheims
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3e47c0 No.854148
>>854145
>Besides, there are FAR worse translations in the KJV. Trust me.
I'd like to know what you are thinking of so I can watch out for it. What is it?
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9c96b1 No.854153
>>854142
Your argument is that the KJV is so bad, they even add notes in the margin to the correct translation but that makes it okay.
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fcbfa3 No.854154
>>854118
Because we are fallen creatures and being saintly is hard.
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9c96b1 No.854155
>>854154
The thing is, the Unicorn thing is true, and the "you worship Saints" line is false and has been refuted by Catholics many times.
I wouldn't put the truth on the same level as false witness against the Holy Mother Church. That's just wrong.
The King James Bible is a bad translation. Owning a Bible which does not bear the Imprimature is the sin of heresy. You can't give it away or sell it. You have to trash it or better still burn it. You can't let it fall in the hands of someone as it might lead them to hell.
See Pope Paul III Council of Trent and Pope Leo XII "Ubi primum"
Sorry, no Unicorns for Catholics.
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3e47c0 No.854156
>>854153
Will you ever, and I mean ever, stop uncharitably strawmanning and misrepresenting other people? Where exactly did I say that the KJV is bad?
I never said it. I also never meant for this definition to be an "excuse." I copied it straight out of the dictionary of English, see the Webster definition from 1828. Is it my fault you were improperly educated and did not learn the correct definition of the word? Is everyone, even people centuries ago, supposed to change or be based on your definitions of things for you not to complain?
When you get proven wrong on one thing, do you immediately move to another mischaracterization? It seems like you just did. Do you need to be proven wrong endlessly? It's obvious by now that, you are here with an attitude to whine and complain. If forced to admit you are wrong, you just immediately make up another mischaracterization. Just stop posting until you have learnt the basics, before coming back here.
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9c96b1 No.854159
>>854156
Your own examples prove that they later on knew the word should be rhino and unicorn is wrong.
Somehow, you turn that into yet another personal attack.
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3e47c0 No.854160
>>854159
According to this >>854142
they already knew from the very beginning the two words were equivalent. Stop posting until you have gained an understanding of the basics. That's all I'm saying.
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9c96b1 No.854161
Maybe demanding personal information and calling me a schizo will help.
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9c96b1 No.854164
Dear Diary;
Today I had to explain to people that a rhino; the African herbivore that is near sighted and has a keratinous mineralized compartmented "horn" is not, in fact, the mythical unicorn. My sin was not to consider that Anon didn't know that a unicorn is mythical pagan beast while Rhinos are real, and that they're not at all the same.
For understanding that a rhino was not a unicorn, I was ridiculed and called a liar. I was resentful at first, but learned to forgive Anon, even if they don't ask for forgiveness, as the belief that Rhino horns are the magical unicorn horn is a common but false belief among many African peoples.
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0643fc No.854166
>>854161
Based on your posts we can only assume you do not have a local church. Do you?
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9c96b1 No.854167
>>854166
Every time you embarrass yourself in an argument e.g.rhino is a synonym for unicorn, you start making silly assumptions about me and making everything personal.
That's just sad, and sinful.
Every time.
Rhinos are actual creatures. Unicorns are fictional pagan creatures that never existed.
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0643fc No.854168
>>854167
That's not me. Why are you avoiding the issue?
I'm not asking you to dox yourself I'm asking you to confirm if you are in a local church, which is a necessary condition to performing good works.
If you have good works, you should let your ight so shine before men that they may see your good works.
When you fail to answer in the affirmative we must understand it as a negative, you do not participate in a church, ergo all your postings about works are of a hypocrite.
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9c96b1 No.854175
>>854168
Every time you guys lose an argument, you look for personal details to use to feed your hate and ridicule. That doesn't even matter. You have no argument and turn to hate.
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9c96b1 No.854176
>>854168
>we must understand it as a negative
You can tell whatever lie you want to yourself.
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0643fc No.854179
That settles it then. I appreciate that your fear of lying prevents you from falsely stating that you are in communion with fellow local believers.
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9c96b1 No.854182
>>854179
You are making up lies to slander me, and you're making it personal because you argue in bad faith for a false religion.
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6d27eb No.854238
>>854141
>The church has always been valid, and has never included catholics from the very inception of catholicism under Constantine. It has always existed outside of that as the chart shows.
Interesting. Can you elaborate on that? What did Constantine "invent" exactly?
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0643fc No.854239
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0643fc No.854240
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3e47c0 No.854241
>>854238
The idea of state church started with him. He also chose who was going to lead his new church. Thus starting the line of the Bishops of Rome, which was and is a political title created by the emperor that gradually became synonymous with "pope" after the year 1073 (Dictatus papae released). This started at the Synod of Arles in 314. This office was a political creation and vassal of the emperors until the year 1059. After this, it was an electorate that was still political in nature as it came with land. You can tell it was political because the popes after this generally had feuds with the emperors. Thus it was no more than replacing one feudal lord with another. However, with that said the claims to infallibility that these men made over the centuries as they became more politically independent and stopped being vassals are hard to ignore, and seem to be animated with the spirit of antichrist itself, wanting to replace Christ with themselves as the ultimate lord.
Already back in 1325 you had some popes claiming to be God himself, back during the Avignon period when their claims over their titles were growing increasingly tenuous. See below source on that:
>– Zenzelinus, A.D. 1325, in his gloss to Extravag. Jo. XXII. Tit. XIV. C. 4, in fine says: Credere autem Dominum Deum nostrum Papam, conditorem dictae decretalis, sic non potuisse statuere, prout statuit, haereticum censeretur. So also in the Lyons editions of 1584 and 1606, and in the Paris editions of 1585, 1601 and 1612: in the later editions the Deum is left out.
Gieseler, Text-book of Ecclesiastical History, Vol. 3, p. 66 footnote 3.
[being translated: But to believe that our Lord God the Pope, the establisher of said decretal, and of this, could not decree, as he did decree, should be accounted heretical.]
The explanation for this is given as follows:
>Augustini Triumphi, Qu. IX. Art. 1. Utrum Papae debeatur honor, qui debetur Christo secundum quod Deus? Videtur: – quia honor debetur potestati, sed una est potestas Christi secundum quod Deus et Papae: quod probatur, quia potestas Christi secundum quod Deus est peccata dimittere juxta illud Marc ii. quos potest peccata dimittere nisi solus Deus? istud autem convenit Papae, quia quodcumque ligat vel solvit super terram, est ligatum vel solutum in caelis.
Gieseler, Text-book of Ecclesiastical History, Vol. 3, p. 66 footnote 3.
[translation of the above: Question IX, Whether the Pope deserves the same honor, as that is due to Christ as God? It appears: that honor is rendered for power, but identical is the power of Christ according to both God and the Pope; this is proved, that the power of Christ as God to forgive sins is according to Mark ii, who can forgive sins but God only? This is likewise true of the Pope, that whatsoever you shall bind or loose on earth shall be bound or loosed in heaven.]
Hope that makes sense. Not many people are actually interested in this history, and let me know if anything was unclear with the above.
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9c96b1 No.854244
>>854241
Be Baptist
Tell an absurd story how the Baptist Church existed and was founded by Christ. What? TWO True Churches of God? Have no evidence, deny John Smyth.
The come back and tell another whopper about the Catholic Church.
It's would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic and all the souls being lead to hell.
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f5819a No.854246
Funny how I start a thread about how Baptists and Catholics relentless attack each other with neither one having sound theological arguments and then the same thing happens in this thread.
Do we need to do this elementary style with you guys saying what you like about the other side?
I like that Baptists are usually very devout when it comes to reading Biblical literature
I like how Catholics take their mass very seriously and reverently compared to other denominations.
Is that so hard? If I’m going to be fair here, I am Catholic. But the Catholics s- on Baptists with insane arguments just as much as Baptists s- on Catholics for stuff that is proven false.
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f5819a No.854247
I hope my point atleast gets across, that we have so many different enemies that are against Christiandom as a whole, to be wasting our breath fighting with each other.
Islam, athiesim, modernism, Judaism, the list goes on and on. Those people want all mention of Jesus Christ our Lord dead. Can we atleast agree that we can hold our own against those people without stabbing each other in the back? Those groups should be our main focus as of now. We can argue about the other stuff later. But right now all of Christiandom is at risk of persecution from the modernists agenda being put out by the world as of now.
I would much rather see a world filled with a mix of Catholics and Baptists and other denominations, than a world controlled by an atheistic society.
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ffb9d4 No.854248
What are you on about? It's always been like this, my guy? Get with the program. You gotta lurk moar.
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ffb9d4 No.854249
>>854246
>I like how Catholics take their mass very seriously and reverently compared to other denominations.
Have you ever been to an EO mass? They don't even let themselves sit down the whole time (though there are chairs set aside for people who literally can't stand).
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ffb9d4 No.854250
>>854124
>Actually that second one is true
If you're going to argue, at least do so in good faith. You're making the rest of us look bad.
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3e47c0 No.854259
>>854247
You can ask for that but that's political so it should be done in the political sphere, not the church sphere.
From a legal perspective, obviously the only way to enforce what you are suggesting would be to revoke the individual God-given protection of free speech/expression as described in the 1st amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
>But right now all of Christiandom is at risk
Not really because those that are asleep in Christ are beyond all of this and protected by the Lord, and we will be either when we die or when the Lord returns. Hopefully that makes sense.
>I would much rather see a world filled with a mix of …, than a world controlled by an atheistic society.
Well, you have many options you can pursue. Just don't start doing unlawful things and being deliberately subversive to get what you want. There is enough of that going on already. The higher powers (Constitution) are ordained of God, and the Lord once told Pilate that he could have no power at all, except it were given to him from above.
>Can we atleast agree that we can hold our own
Imagine a mormon saying this or someone who follows judaism saying this, and you will see why this is a general fallacy. Because it doesn't matter how many people you've got, you are either right and on God's side or else just another false belief that happens to be popular but is not right with God. "Broad is the way that leads to destruction," as it is said in the gospels.
It doesn't matter how many people you got, it only matters whether you are actually correct according to the truth, which is God's word, or not. Why? because God is real and Christ is risen. The Highest, the most High will sort this all out. Everyone does their obligation by following the law of Christ. But some people have made a false law by trying to mix political action into it, when it's not found in the Bible. Romans 12:18-21, Romans 13:7, I Timothy 2:1-4, I Thessalonians 5:14-15. So hopefully now, you understand this.
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16c1f2 No.854263
There will always be religious infighting on /christian/ it's sadly one of it's favorite past times.
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9c96b1 No.854265
>>854246
>Funny how I start a thread about how Baptists and Catholics relentless attack each other with neither one having sound theological arguments and then the same thing happens in this thread.
The Baptist admit that they believe they are to hate the enemies of God, and the one core belief of all Protestants is to hate Catholics. If they didn't, they'd be Catholic.
Of course they're going to hate us.
Mind you, even Christ crucified forgave his enemies from the Cross. It appears that's not how baptist understand scripture. They seem to interpret that as only fellow baptist were forgiven. They can correct me and explain if some Baptist demoniation disagrees. There are 2000 different religions out there, it's impossible to find a belief among them that they share. I'm sure one will say "not me!" and I will gladly grant that.
As a Catholic, you (should) know that they commit blasphemy and false witness of the Holy Mother Church by saying the Catholic faith says to worship the Blessed Virgin, that we pray to idols, and all their other falsehoods, you must respond, as your silence would be participation of their mortal sin. First to correct their error, and when they repeat it, to rebuke their lies. If you don't, you've participated in their sin. There are 9 ways to participate in the sins of another, silence is a way to participate in heresy and false witness.
Defending the faith; why do you think the bishop gives you a punch to the cheek at the Holy Sacrament of Confirmation? It is to remind you that as a confirmed Catholic, you must defend the faith.
That makes Catholics easy to troll using deceit and lies.
>I hope my point atleast gets across, that we have so many different enemies that are against Christiandom as a whole, to be wasting our breath fighting with each other.
You don't seem to know who the enemies of the Holy Mother Church are. Those who bear false witness against the church and blaspheme against it are not allies with the Holy Mother Church, sorry.
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9c96b1 No.854267
>>854249
>Have you ever been to an EO mass?
E.O.? English Only? You mean a New (World) Order mass? Novus Ordo? They don't even try to hide it.
Can't say I've been to one, as if I did, I'd be acting like it was a valid mass, and that would make me an anathema by the decree of the Holy Mother Church.
Keep in mind that in the Latin (Low) Mass, except for the Gospel (stand) and the Collect (sit), we kneel. Since my knee is artificial, that's painful, but then, Christ was scourged and crucified. A painful knee is nothing!
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66af98 No.854268
>>854141
>Nothing in the Bible can be used to show that the church is based in Rome
Nothing in the Bible says the Bible is our sole authority.
>Catholicism is a cult that split off from and was never part of the church
So… why are you using our Scriptures, then? You know, the ones established as canon by the Council of Rome.
>>854167
>Unicorns are fictional pagan creatures that never existed
So the KJV was sponsored by and named after a homosexual adulterer, uses pagan rhetoric, and denies the divinity of Christ in verses such as Titus 2:13. Disappointing, to say the least.
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9c96b1 No.854269
Okay, here's the thing.
We don't worship the Blessed Virgin as God. She is the Mother of God. (If you don't think Jesus IS God, you're not doing Christianity right: Triune God, three persons, All are the One God.)
We believe in one God, three persons of Father Son and Holy Ghost.
Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of God the Father, is True Man and True God.
We only kneel on the right knee before the alter of God, the Closed Tabernacle that contains the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ, when we are closest before it, like before we enter a pew.
When the Tabernacle is open, we kneel on BOTH knees. We are in the presence of God!
Bishops only get the left knee. They are not worshiped.
If you see a properly catechized Catholic at the communion rail, he's kneeling because he's about to receive the actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Our God.
If you see a properly catechized Catholic apparently kneeling before a large statue of the Blessed Virgin on the Gospel side of the Church, he's not kneeling because of the statue, he's kneeling to the side alter which which again, Contains a Tabernacle containing the Body and Blood of Christ. Ditto for the Saint Joseph statue on the Epistle side of the Church.
Most Catholics will kneel when they pray.
We use statues to remind of Saints and Our Lord. The Church dates back to a time before literacy, especially in Latin.
We DO pray to saints, asking them to pray for us. My Saint medal says "pray for us" on the back. Just like the "Prayer request" that no one seems to have a problem with on this board, we ask others to pray for us. Catholics believe that to pray for anything but grace (to avoid sin), faith in God, or Forgiveness of sin; or to give Glory to God, you have to be in a state of sanctifying grace. We believe that the Church triumphant (those in heaven) are alive and able to pray for us or for our intentions, e.g. a prayer for the conversion of Protestants to the Holy Mother Church (in other words, if you value your souls don't put us in a state of sin of anger or our prayers for you won't be answered)
Those in purgatory cannot pray for themselves, and need our prayers.
There's no point in praying for the damned.
We're not put in this world to party and have a good time, or be prosperous. Sometimes wealth is a temptation that will fail.
All confirmed Catholics are obligated to defend the Faith (easy fishing for trolls). Say something false against the Church and a Catholic must correct you. Say it again knowing it is false again, and the Catholic must rebuke you to give you a chance to repent. . To do any less is to let the person bearing false witness to lead souls to hell.
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3e47c0 No.854286
>>854268
>Nothing in the Bible says the Bible is our sole authority.
See 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
All scripture fulfills its purpose and the man of God is made perfect, as Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:17.
>So… why are you using our Scriptures, then?
You know that they're ours. And that's why we are the only ones using them. I have nothing against you, anon. My humble prayer is that all repent to the acknowledging of the truth. There is no respect of persons in the church, please believe that.
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9c96b1 No.854287
>>854286
All scripture (given to us by the Holy Mother Church) is inspired by God for instruction.
Where does it say that all the instruction are scripture?
Pro tip: Bible says it isn't.
Sola Scriptura is denied by the Bible in several verses and with the application of a little logic. Jesus Christ didn't just come to deliver a book, he created a Church, and promised that the Holy Ghost would be sent as the Paraclete to guide his Church. The same divinely inspired Church that gave us the Bible, gave us more teaching from the Church
Without the guidance of God, you'd end up with 2000 different religions all saying something different, many of which aren't even Christian, because everyone will read into the Bible what they want out of it
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f9d5e1 No.854297
>>854267
I'm talking about Eastern Orthodox, retard.
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66af98 No.854299
>>854286
>See 2 Timothy 3:16-17
That doesn't say the Bible is our sole authority, though. Try again.
>You know that they're ours.
Nope, they've always been carefully safeguarded by the Church until Luther came along and played God with the scriptures, removing the 7 books he didn't like from Biblical canon. If your church only recognizes 66 books of the Bible, then it is of the Protestant tradition, dating at least 1500 years after Christ.
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0643fc No.854301
>>854299
Scripture alone is the doctrine that scripture is the sole infallible authority. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate anything else holds equal or greater value as infallible with scripture, which we all agree is authoritative whatever the correct canon is.
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9c96b1 No.854310
>>854301
>The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate anything else holds equal or greater value as infallible with scripture,
I already quoted John 20:30 and 2 Thessalonians 13-14 that prove you have to accept apostolic traditions. So, the Bible itself refutes Sola Scripta
I also pointed out that God Created a church on Saint Peter, gave him the keys to heaven and promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. The Lord Keeps his promises. Besides, it would have been a vain act of the Lord if he created a church that didn't lead to heaven.
The heresy and false prophets of Protestantism are right out of the Bible too.
If you cling to a false religion, don't claim that the Bible vindicates you.
Quite frankly, the way that the sola scritura folks irrationally deny scripture itself is a tell that it's not about the Bible, but about their wanting to believe they can commit sin without having to confess and do penance; about their wanting to divorce and remarry against the command of the Lord.
I can use logic and scripture with yo all day long and you'll just blow ink of scripture in my face and swim away like an octopus. That's because the problem isn't logic, it's your love of sin.
The Catholic Church is hard. They expect you to give up sin.
This is where you throw out the red herring and say "waddabout priest who rape children". Well, they need to confess, be pentenant, correct their wickedness or they shall suffer hell. If being a priest is a proximate occasion of sin for them, then they are in the wrong vocation and need to leave the priesthood.
>The burden of proof is on you
If you think it is on someone else to save your soul, you're lost. The gifts of reason and grace are for God. I can pray for you to receive them, but if you reject them from God, you're lost.
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9c96b1 No.854317
Here's a question for the Sola Scritura heretics:
Saint Jerome gathered the Books of the Bible together in the year 400 AD. Up until then, the only source of divinely inspired teaching was via the Holy Catholic Church.
If Sola Scritura was true, then the Church was created in the year 400 AD and not in 33 AD when Jesus Christ created the Holy Mother Church upon Saint Peter, first Bishop of Antioch and first Bishop of Rome.
What happened to souls between the Ascension of Christ and 400 AD? Did they just go to hell for the lack of a King James Bible?
It is obvious they did not. For the 1st 400 years of the Church, there was no "Bible", when people were taught by the Apostolic priest of the Church and they were shown the meaning with statues.
Christ gathered 11 Church Fathers, adding the 12th after his Holy Sacrifice. If he wanted scribes, he would have gathered scribes. If there were no scribes and scribes were needed, he would turn rocks into scribes.
*Which some of you say when Rome converted from paganism, as if such a mass conversion and turning to God was a sign of wickedness from the devil. Like the pharisees, you claim that good works and leading souls to the Father is the work of the devil.
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2bafbb No.854318
>>854119
Good threads get derailed within two posts these days.
this thread too.
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9c96b1 No.854319
>>854318
Since there are no good threads and you see no point in starting a good thread, why remain just to complain?
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7cf728 No.854323
>>854250
There's nothing bad faith about speaking the truth. Speak the truth even if your voice shakes
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1a47e9 No.854326
>>854323
Except you're not speaking the truth. You're spreading falsehoods. In other words, bearing false witness. It doesn't help anyone.
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9c96b1 No.854332
>>854323
The Church is very clear that there is one God in Three persons: the Father Almighty, Jesus Christ Our Lord, and The Holy Ghost.
Mary and the Saints are not God. We venerate Mary and Saints like an American patriot would venerate Thomas Jefferson.
This false hood has been spread to poison minds against the Church of Jesus Christ. If this is what we believed, we would say so, but we deny any claim of divinity of the Blessed Virgin.
We do claim, that like Adam and Eve, she was created without Original sin (Immaculate Conception). We claim she was entirely human. We claim that God created her with so much grace (which enables one to resist sin) that she was free from actual sin as was Adam and Eve before their fall. We claim that, following the promise to Adam and Eve before the fall she would never suffer the pains of childbirth nor suffer death, and that she was assumed in heaven, taken by the power of God body and soul unlike Christ who ascended into heaven under his own power as God.
We also believe she will crush the head of the snake (Genisus 3:15); that is, defeat the devil which caused the fall of Adam and Eve. This is our faith from Church dogma, Anyone who claims otherwise is falsely informed or spreading lies like Satan. Satan hates the Blessed virgin because Satan knows she will be his doom! That is the will of God and those who hate Satan are of the Devil.
Are we clear?
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9c96b1 No.854333
No takers on >>854317 where I asked where was the inspired teaching of the faithful before Saint Jerome assembled the books of the Bible? If Sola Scriptura (Bible Alone), then you deny tradition of the apostles, but for over 300 years, that's all there was of the Church established by Christ, the Apostolic tradition.
Why did Christ chose future bishops and not scribes?
Why did Christ establish a Church and not a book delivery?
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9c96b1 No.854334
John 19
26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother:Woman, behold thy son.
27 After that, he saith to the disciple:Behold thy mother.And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.
By scripture and command of the Lord, John took the Blessed Virgin as his own Mother, and Blessed Virgin took John as her son.
And that is the way it is for all who are at the foot of the Cross! You honor and Obey your mother!
Exodus 20:12
Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.
Those who hate the Blessed Virgin are with the devil in sin.
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3e47c0 No.854336
>>854310
>I already quoted John 20:30 and 2 Thessalonians 13-14 that prove you have to accept apostolic traditions.
I think you miss the point. We do not accept any random cult that claims to have apostolic traditions just because they say so. That would be lunacy. Because every random cult leader off the side of the street has probably said as much. It has to be in and from the apostles themselves.
The church must take Paul's command to only listen to the apostles very seriously. I'm not listening to some faker from off the street. Get out of here with that fake garbage already, anon.
Very seriously, your leaders need to stop spreading lying filth in the name of our apostles, anon. It's for your own good. As God tells us, after all, whoever adds to these things shall have the plagues from the book of Revelation added to them. And now, it is only a matter of time before it happens to the sinners that have already transgressed this firm decree. The plagues are coming for those liars.
>>854332
>there was no "Bible",
Ok anon, there are many martyrs who died to protect the Scriptures during the persecutions of the caesars who you can tell that to after the resurrection has happened and you are then left give an account for every idle word you have spoken. I tried to warn you not to go down this road, and it is in your best interest in mind that I have said anything at all. Because I know what's going to happen to the people who are sinning in the way that you seem to idolize. Their pride and empty bluster is going to lead them to the pits of hell itself. They are clouds without water. False preachers. Every soul is valuable enough to deserve a warning not to follow after them, so I only hope more warnings are coming before something happens and it becomes too late.
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
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7cf728 No.854339
>>854326
It is true, they are idolaters who fall down before false gods whom they call saints, and just because you are womanly and wish to placate the falsely religious does not mean I will hold back from speaking the truth. I know it is true, and everybody who has not fallen under their spell knows it is true, and most importantly, God knows it is true. They partake in the greatest sin, and if they do not repent and worship the true God alone they will face eternal damnation. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to spare their feelings from the truth, you should be more concerned with sparing their souls from damnation.
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9c96b1 No.854342
>>854336
Wait… you dismiss Saint Paul the apostle because you say he was only talking about the Apostles because God didn't make anymore after the 11, but…
… God called Saul after the 11 Apostles, so that's obviously wrong.
God also gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins as Christ would work through them. That implies the continued life of the Church and the apostolic tradition of passing down the apostolic priesthood. Again, your statement is thus obviously wrong.
But you disregard that as you believe yourself to be an apostle who can forgive his own sins, which even the first apostles didn't believe and they all had a confessor.
Your answer to my question "how did the Holy Ghost work without the Bible (much less the KJV) is that I'm going to hell and calling the Holy Mother Church liars and false preachers.
>>854339
False witness and blasphemy against the Holy Mother Church is a mortal sin. You have no reason to say these hate filled things. I point out your errors time after time and each time you commit yourself once again to the lies of Satan in your hate of the Blessed mother.
You need to repent and renounce lying and commit yourself to the truth.
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fa6c4c No.854344
>>854336
>I think you miss the point. We do not accept any random cult that claims to have apostolic traditions just because they say so.
Clearly you do because you belong to the baptist church who cannot provide any evidence for their own existence prior to 1500 AD.
>Ok anon, there are many martyrs who died to protect the Scriptures during the persecutions of the caesars
Like who? I've heard of plenty of martyrs who died professing that Jesus Christ is The Son of God but I've never heard of any who died professing sola scriptura.
>Colossians 2:8
>Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
It's mind-blowing to me how people can quote this without realizing that it can be equally applicable to them.
>philosophy and vain deceit
The idea that everyone should be their own priest because everyone is equally capable of finding the truth for themselves is a philosophical argument. It is also vain and deceptive because it's wrong.
>traditions of men
Sola scriptura is a tradition created by Martin Luther and later adopted by baptists.
>after the rudiments of the world
Baptists love to harp on and on about how we can't legislate morality and that separation of church and state is vital to a prosperous nation. This shows that baptist 'morality' is based on English Common law (which is based on the rudiments of the world) and not scripture at all because The Bible says the exact opposite.
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0643fc No.854348
>>854344
>Clearly you do because you belong to the baptist church who cannot provide any evidence for their own existence prior to 1500 AD.
There are several theories of baptist origins. The poster you're talking to is a landmarkist who takes the view that there has been an identifiable succession of baptist churches since Jesus operating under different names but with ostensibly baptist theology, especially around the gospel and baptism.
Generally, the other more common view is to recognize baptist churches as a renewal movement within the protestant renewal movement. Placing the start with anabaptists or english separatism, or even somewhere else is debatable.
In either case you are presenting a strawman by characterizing baptists as restorationists, like mormons or JWs, which is objectively incorrect.
>I've never heard of any who died professing sola scriptura.
That's not what he said, but there have been such martyrs like Cranmer.
>The Bible says the exact opposite. (church and state should be mingled)
Show us
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7cf728 No.854351
>>854342
>You have no reason to say these hate filled things
The truth is hate to those who hate the truth
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000000 No.854354
>>854351
>The truth is hate to those who hate the truth
Christ is the truth, and he commanded us to love our enemies.
Those who hate the truth, ban the truth.
Oddly biblical during Lent
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be05cf No.854356
>>854339
You sound like a Muslim.
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8b48ae No.854386
We can fix this board if we reject the False Protestant Catholic Dichotomy and accept the Third Orthodox Position.
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