1054e0 No.843827
I think if you uphold, for the sake of argument, T, U and L, then the I and P become even more apparently offensive to a Christian world view than taking down the L and working out from there. The reason being that if we grant T, U and L and believe that someone cannot come to Christ without receiving an effectual calling an provision of grace and cannot help but sin sins that God doesn't effectually will (compatibilism), Hebrews 6:4-8 would then suggest that God withdraws his grace from a professing Christian to realize the grievance or blasphemy of his own Holy Spirit! Surely this is repugnant to any Christian. And, as we say, this is not because Calvin or the WCF SAY this (why would they? Then again, the things Calvin actually said never fail to surprise), but because this follows necessarily from the I and P of Tulip which say the Christian will be dragged all the way to the kingdom and if not, God has not provided the grace to save him. In short, by steel-manning the first three points of the Calvinist TULIP, the implications of I and P in light of Hebrews 6, makes the only sin that God is involved with effectually, the insult towards the Spirit of grace of the former believer who falls away. Surely if there is any sin in particular, we would not want to impart to God, it is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, yet even within Calvinistic compatibilism, God effectually brings about this worst sin of all.
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240501 No.843832
>be OP
>the greatest theologian of all time
>single-handedly destroy 500 years of theology by vomiting out some nigh unintelligible word salad on 8chan
>tfw 250 iq
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0f156e No.843833
>>843827
I don't know what the winnie the pooh you just said but I now have a newfound fondness of Calvinism.
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1054e0 No.843834
>>843832
You're dishonesty because reformed theology is your idol. You'd rather defend the reputation of men than the character of God. Repent.
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1054e0 No.843835
>>843833
Thinking they were wise, they became fools and all that.
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0f156e No.843836
>>843835
Are you a Catholic? Do you believe in determinism?
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1054e0 No.843837
Here's the greentext version
>Calvinism says that the Christian will be saved by irresistible grace by which his perseverance will be assured
>Calvinistic compatibilism states that God does not bring about the evil that men do, which they cannot help but do as a result of their fallen natures.
>Hebrews 6:4 speaks of the condemnation accorded to the Christian who falls away after receiving the spirit of grace (the effectual working which ends the total depravity of his heart)
>If this Christian has not fallen away as a result of his own freely willed rebellion, then God has effectually brought about the blasphemy of his own Spirit of grace by removing grace from this professing believer.
>Therefore even under Calvinistic compatibilism, God doesn't will every sin, but still wills the worst sin of all, the insult of his grace by the professing believer.
QED
What is so hard to understand about that?
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1054e0 No.843838
>>843836
No. I am non-denominational. I do not believe in determinism. I believe that free will under God's sovereignty are a mystery, not to be discerned with flawed human reason. As far as I can tell Calvinists appeal to mystery as well, concerning man's responsibility, they just make the appeal too late.
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1054e0 No.843839
Also I have no pretensions of greatness. I wouldn't be surprised if opponents of Calvinism, likely much more learned men than myself, have made this argument before. I am merely bringing it to immediate attention where I am able. If its such a killer argument, as it appears to be, then so be it.
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240501 No.843840
>>843837
This is more intelligible but not much more coherent
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1054e0 No.843841
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240501 No.843842
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1054e0 No.843843
>>843842
Why? I have the Bible and I believe as a child. I don't need the doctrines of men to fit the mysteries of God into my fallen human understanding. I have way too much reverence for them to presume to do that.
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240501 No.843844
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1054e0 No.843846
>>843844
I mean, don't just tell me I don't understand Calvinism. Demonstrate it, not to the chortling group of smug Calvinists who say "oh its self evident". Demonstrate the failing in my reasoning of Calvinism TO ME. I'm pretty sure if its actually as recondite and abstruse as Calvinists make it out to be, I'm about as interested in understanding it as Jordan Peterson's psychobabble.
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0f156e No.843847
>>843837
God is not omnipotent. Just because you saw magic in capes— that doesn't mean God can do literally anything. God can't have his cake and eat it too. God can't perform a logical contradiction. Evil sneaks in through these technicalities. I'm not a Calvinist but it's easy to dismiss your argument with the idea that God might have to will rejection of His grace to prevent a greater evil from happening.
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1054e0 No.843848
>>843847
>His God is bound by logic
This is the kind of thinking that will deceive professing believers into following the religion of the antichrist.
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0f156e No.843849
>>843848
If your god isn't logical it doesn't exist. You're dealing in matters beyond your pay grade.
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1054e0 No.843850
>>843849
Good luck in the day of evil, thinking a faculty in your mind is going to be more reliable than Christ.
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1054e0 No.843851
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>843849
Also this is a side-issue. Most Calvinists appeal to mystery regarding the nature of man's responsibility anyway. When you're trying to understand the mind of God with a human mind, you are inevitably going to hit a wall at some point. There is no escaping it.
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0f156e No.843853
>>843850
Logos is Christ. If you reject logic you are full of nothing but lies and I'm rather tired and filled with hate after all these years of dealing with your ilk.
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1054e0 No.843854
>>843853
Who said I reject logic? I just put it in subjection to my faith. Hence why I don't let it tell me that I don't have an effectual will to love my Lord and savior and turn from the will of sin. Because its actually not biblical. The implications of Calvinistic determinism attack the Holy character of God and render man's responsibility an apparent semantic issue. And finally free will is even written on our hearts – what man denies he has a free will before some doctrine of man convinces him of it?
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c3ede6 No.843856
>>843854
Ignore him.
He's a fan of some fringe "theologian" that made some dumb attempt at neo-platonism.
That's what he's referencing.
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0f156e No.843874
>>843854
Free will is the ability to choose to listen to logic over primitive emotions. It is not the non-existent ability to break fate.
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0f156e No.843875
>>843856
If you're talking about EMJ I never watched one of his videos or read more than one chapter of his books.
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f94bff No.843896
>>843853
Logos is not logic.
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0f156e No.843904
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5624a6 No.843905
>>843904
No, it means Word, not logic.
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59c245 No.843907
>>843904
It literally is not
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24b0d6 No.848586
As someone who would consider themselves Calvinistic. The denying of the role of will or free will (whatever you want to call it) that some Calvinist do is so stupid.
Irresistible grace just means you got Ben Shapiro-ed by God and you don't have a counter argument so you repent and follow Him.
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ec7193 No.848589
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0cdd89 No.848597
>>843847
Oh yes, God can literally do anything. God is omnipotent.
It is just that our limited minds can not comprehend omnipotency. The logical contradictions are on our side, because our logical thought is limited to our human minds. categories such as "too heavy to lift" do not exist from God's eyes. While for limited bodily beings such as us they are a reality.
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a0c2da No.848608
>>848597
That's unironically muslim bs.
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cdfd26 No.848636
>>848597
>Oh yes, God can literally do anything. God is omnipotent.
Oh yes, because you apparently assume God is evil enough to discard justice entirely even though he has the capacity to execute it. Your "god" is a wicked evil monster of your own imagination and I would smash any resemblance of it just like any other pagan idol because I worship the real God who desires justice and all that is good.
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