/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>836589

<>But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10:33

Rodriguez was wrong. He was thinking as men think. Those Christians who were being tortured would have been welcomed into paradise by Christ, and Rodriguez was not culpable for the actions of the Japanese authorities. His faith was insufficient, as he did not rely on the Lord to carry him through to the end. An individual is not guilty of the sin of others unless he can morally prevent it. God would not hold him accountable for what the Japanese authorities were doing to those innocent people. Rodriguez allowed the ends to justify the means, e.i. "I will do this unconscionable act so as to alleviate temporary suffering."

>>836589

The priest was wrong and worldly, he cared more about the bodies than the souls, his action condemned his followers' souls as they would also apostatize after seeing their priest falter.

How does the book end exactly? In the japanese movie the priest is shown lustfully consummating his marriage showcasing his total descent into the world and flesh, his total capitulation. In the american version he keeps the faith although he still denounced Christ.

Movies that do Christ vs the world right are for example:

- A man for all seasons

- Becket

The showcasing of virtue and faith in these is uplifting while in Silence its depressing.

>>836625

The book has the same ending as the american version, but there is one important detail in the book, which I don't know if they added in the film:

In the book during the climax, they lay out an image of Christ, which Rodriguez must trample on, Christ finally breaks his silence and tells Rodriguez:

"You may trample. You may trample. I more than anyone know of the pain in your foot. You may trample. It was to be trampled on by men that I was born into this world. It was to share men's pain that I carried my cross."

But it's a bittersweet and sour ending. In the end Rodriguez is defeated, and he actively assists the Japanese in hunting down the hidden Christians, he takes a Japanese wife, but oddly enough, he never looses his faith in his heart.

The saddest part is that the characters are based on real people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristóvão_Ferreira

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Chiara

>>836589

If Rodriguez was right, Christ was wrong. His coming unto the world lead to the death of many followers by the opposing authorities.

The problem of Japan not being able suspend the ethical like Abraham is ironically shown in the book's conclusion.

>>836627

I do not say this smugly as if I would have the strength of faith to not do the same, I would probably falter.

>>836628

I would've done the same, but it doesnt make it morally right.

>>836618

>Those Christians who were being tortured would have been welcomed into paradise by Christ

Looks like you've not read the book, the "Christians" that were being tortured never even believed in Christianity, but a sort of animism due to not understanding the Christian concepts

>>836717

I think the Father is supposed to be above morals. Have you read Fear and Tremblinb by Kierkegaard? It might have some good dialogue with Silence.

>>836721

Eh, I saw the movie when it came out a long time ago. Regardless, everything else I said is still valid. He should have had faith in the Lord.

>>836626

That scene was in the movie.