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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 4630115da5ba478⋯.jpg (122.07 KB, 640x640, 1:1, 1503106366578.jpg)

fedb2a  No.829581

What is free will? I don't want to worry about if we have it or not. I want to more fundamentally dig into what it is in the first place.

Anyone got a good idea?

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27cb0f  No.829587

>>829581

You're going to get different answers based on denomination. A lot Protestants don't believe in free will whereas the idea of free will is integral to Catholic and Orthodox soteriology.

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fedb2a  No.829588

>>829587

No, I already know about these views. Also, you are wrong. The vast majority of Protestants do believe in free will, even Calvinists do. Calvinists simply believe that free will is enabled by God/Holy Spirit by freeing humans from being locked in sin (effectively not having free will to start with, and God enabling people to have it).

I don't really care about denominational differences about whether we have it or not. I want to know, *what it is*. I feel this is far more interesting. It is partly because of these denominational differences that I want to understand what it is.

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27cb0f  No.829589

>>829581

You're going to get different answers based on denomination. A lot Protestants don't believe in free will whereas the idea of free will is integral to Catholic and Orthodox soteriology. >>829588

>No, I already know about these views. Also, you are wrong. The vast majority of Protestants do believe in free will, even Calvinists do. Calvinists simply believe that free will is enabled by God/Holy Spirit by freeing humans from being locked in sin (effectively not having free will to start with, and God enabling people to have it).

That's the Calvinistic view of grace, which they believe to be irresistible for those which God elected before time, the individual plays no role in salvation in Calvinism.

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3e53e1  No.829591

>>829589

So do you know what comprises free will?

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b24385  No.829596

Free will is the capacity for choice free of coercion, as opposed to determinism.

A fundamental debate to the existence of free will is compatibilism v incompatibilism: can free will and determinism coexist (the answer is no)

>>829588

It is a reasonable argument that in the final analysis 5 point calvinists reject free will, because God causing your will is no different from having no free will.

It is true that only the tiny minority of calvinists will say "free will does not exist", and even they tend to do missions as if it does.

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fc1cb8  No.829638

There is effectively no difference between free will and the illusion of free will, so why bother about it? Whether you're free or not, pretend you are and behave with agency. If free will doesn't exist, let this be the post that triggers the chemical reactions in your brain to go on believing that you control your actions. It's just pragmatism. People who don't believe in free will won't behave as though they can be held accountable for their actions and they will behave as though they cannot improve.

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9b805d  No.829666

>>829638

>People who don't believe in free will won't behave as though they can be held accountable for their actions and they will behave as though they cannot improve.

Then how did I never do anything impulsive like drugs and how did I manage to improve myself to the point of getting a STEM degree without believing in non-deterministic free will? I think you value the belief itself more than whatever results you may falsely associate with it. Europe produced many successful people even back when everyone was more informed about the faith and believed in deterministic free will.

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9b805d  No.829667

>>829666

And of course Satan, the trickster that he is would give me these digits when I'm defending Catholic doctrine.

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e2f465  No.829680

There is a back and forth. I remember before I went to the church I got saved at, I skipped one of the two times I could go. Then I had dreams of hell for the next week. So I went to church.

Another time, I posted something difficult on Facebook. I didn't want to, but God was telling me to. I did. Right after, a friend messaged me and asked to talk. Ends up he was dealing with the same thing. I guess I should say by now, I'm bi, I don't engage in it, and he's gay. He wanted help. It was really interesting because my friend found him after God told him to look for someone from New Jersey at a concert behind him. He was going to kill himself that night. He didn't. God intervened. And since then, he had seen some incredible things. And we got to chat. I helped him, we prayed, and that stuff. Later he tells me he's walking away from Christianity. That was it for him. He won't come back. He tasted, he saw and didn't want it.

Then we can tell countless stories about people who didn't have the opportunity like the above did. I remember reading this communist fighter saying he's glad there's no God because now he can be evil to his heart's delight. He's probably dead and in hell now. And then there are people we may consider good who are there.

Now, the point of all of this is, God showed up in some cases, but not others. In mine he did and the results were positive, my friend it didn't go so well for and still others bad. So, what can we determine about free will then? Well we don't really know. There is some for some, but others there isn't. So, if we can't know then why make a big deal about it? This is one of the mysteries that resides in heaven. Or, better yet, ask God. Maybe he'll reveal it to you here.

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