/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>819199

When I realized one day when thinking and browsing the net (about what I don't know, but it was after watching some people debate abortion in a chat) that despite it being shaky, and some things having to be assumed, that I could reason to right and moral behavior in some areas (I was thinking of abortion being wrong then). That I should continue to do that and regulate my life by it, or I would suffer guilt, and be a bad and unhappy person. I found Christianity not too long (2 years) after.

>>819199

Are we still going over EMJ's Qunari theology?

>>819199

When I started browsing /pol/ and found out about what the Jews had done and were doing.

>>819199

I guess when I first began to search for the truth and realised the meme argument "if God real why bad thing" was a fundamentally flawed question because it hinges on the basis that evil is an objective thing and not a subjective viewpoint, and for evil to be objective a higher power must exist to declare it objective

Thanks be to God

When I noticed moral relativism being used as a weapon to beat down western Christian civilization.

For instance, when western countries moved to allow women the vote it was seen as "progress". This implies that the current civilization is superior to the old civilization.

But if I attempted to say that countries today that don't allow women to vote are inferior I get screamed at that I'm racist.

There's no logic to moral relativism whatsoever, it's just a completely arbitrary way to excuse inconvenient facts and behaviors.

>>819199

from a secular and even theistic worldview moral relativism has truth to it. Morals (apart from virtues if you admit classical theism) only become objective in the religious point of view.

>>819208

Basically this but it was more the massive amounts of Satan worship all these elites were doing that made me start thinking what do they know that I don’t.

Then basic reasoning led me to concluding it’s true all of it the Spiritual Wars, the Old Testament stories, God in heaven.

There's absolute good but is there really absolute evil? I seem to remember St Augustine renouncing the idea and saying that there is only God (absolute good) and you can be close or far from it. Wouldn't saying the devil is absolute evil imply its on the same power scale?

>>819223

This actually. True evil is caused by the culmination of bad decisions by men or demonic influence. God allows evil because he uses it to create a significantly more powerful good. Remember God also considers you coming and joining him in heaven to be a supreme good so death itself is not evil though most people try to use that as some justification for evil existing.

Used to be a feminist and it was when I realized that female genital mutilation is so wrong that there is no context in which it is morally right. That was a big step for me in eventually finding God.

>>819225

Eddie Gallagher did nothing wrong.

That story was made up by cowards that had a grudge against him.

>>819219

That's interesting. It's interesting that your first reaction was to turn to God. It was almost impossible for me to turn to God back when I used to browse /pol/ because I believed everything /pol/ said about Christianity. I don't know how you managed it. It was the severity of my psychosis that caused me to turn to God. I ran out of options.

>>819207

By EMJ, you mean E. Michael Jones, surely? I say this because a google search for "e michael jones qunari" returns nothing useful.

When I started to understand that sexual immorality erodes our societies and ruins individual lives. Also when I saw how sodomites really hate Christianity.

I never believed in it to be honest. Man growing up saying you were gay was an insult I never understood how it changed.

>>819199

When I realized for it to work at all you must treat it as objective anyway.

>>819262

Oh I had a major event involving meditating, the Frog demon and my guardian angel that did it. Also never fully buying into the anti Christ meme.

>>819199

Some of the earliest recognitions of it for me come from when i was an edgy teen and a discordian. Discordianism teaches a watered down relativist understanding of kantian metaphysics.

The ideology presents little issues – "cracks in the mask" of relativism. Every relativist will tell you about how traditional values and moral points are just cultural whims that arent absolute. So for instance, your views on sex, order, marriage, etc…all of these are relative and can/should be changed if you want.

…but as soon as you raise the question of whether ideas like anti-racism, genocide as evil, etc, are also just whimsical positions that arent actually true, you cause a scuffle, because it arouses cognitive dissonance in the relativists – it reveals that they do hold certain truths as being more real than others, and so their philosophy is exposed as a lie, or at best, a complex prosetylizing meme designed to force their enemies into changing their beliefs to become like themselves (e.g. the "X has a closed mind" meme).

the rest just comes from observation. If we can assume that physics are uniform, certain acts will be the most efficient at promoting or hampering certain ends in general. If certain ends can be classed as "good", then this means that certain categories of acts are inherently good.

The question just becomes "what is the good", which is the question of all philosophy and religion.

>>819262

>By EMJ, you mean E. Michael Jones, surely?

Duh

>I say this because a google search for "e michael jones qunari" returns nothing useful.

Was a reference to this

https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Qun

>An important concept in the Qun is the idea of "Asit tal-eb"—"It is to be": the idea that everything and everyone in the world has a nature, and all these things come together to form a proper order—such as the locust devouring crops. It is every individual's choice whether or not they act according to their nature and the nature of the world, or oppose the proper order, and as such fight against themselves and the world. The individual is not truly "individual", but part of the whole. Their own nature contributes to the larger nature of the world, and so their struggle against self-balance disrupts the balance of the whole, thus hurting themselves. Because of this, society is not considered artificial, but part of nature.

>>819426

Who on earth are you. I've seen you before shilling your bizarre Dragon Age thing, like literally know one knows this. You think someone it's something that people know about. Where on earth do you come from?

>>819427

It's a small board, and i've been here since almost it was founded.

I am free to criticize whatever fringe flavour-of-the-month e-celebrity gets shilled nowadays.

Some of that criticism talks about how his ideas resemble fantasy confucianism.

Pretty simple.

>>819495

>fringe flavour-of-the-month e-celebrity

>"EMJ"

You surely most be trolling here. The guy is an scholar that has studied his subjects for 40 years and has written numerous lenghty books and has talked hundreds of hours to numerous people in 1-hour interviews.

You can see his oldest youtube appearance here, in 1996, when he was already very advanced in his intellectual life.

So calling him a "e-celeb" truly is to be ignorant or trolley.

And since you claimed that people are shilling him, let me sent you to all the books he has written, you'll see that his knowledge truly comes from a point of substance.

http://culturewars.com/books.htm

>>819511

>The guy is an scholar that has studied his subjects for 40 years and has written numerous lenghty books and has talked hundreds of hours to numerous people in 1-hour interviews.

In that case, surely he has had an impact somewhere, his works have been quoted countless times, and influenced certain schools of thought.

I mean, i consider i think Chomski and Peterson to be way overrated by their fanboys, too, but atleast they had a graspable influence in their fields.

>You can see his oldest youtube appearance here, in 1996, when he was already very advanced in his intellectual life.

I listened to the first half hour.

Once you go past the Tristan & Isolde and greek play references, it's an endless repetition of his 2 sentence logic:

>people that become perverts become bad people;

>bad people screw up society, because they are not good people, that live in harmony with natural society;

Even his Anti-Logos woo is pretty much these 2 ideas, except he added "God is Good, therefor perverts and other sinners are ungodly" to the start.

Besides that, he's just saying "everyone that disagreed with me turned out to be a pervert", and telling a think thank that thinks academia are leftists out to get them, how academics are a bunch of communist perverts that are ruining society.

>And since you claimed that people are shilling him, let me sent you to all the books he has written, you'll see that his knowledge truly comes from a point of substance.

Looking over the titles and the descriptions, besides "The Mississippi Flows into the Tiber", it's an endless variation of 5 ideas smashed together in random ways.

>usury and international aid bad;

>academia are perverts;

>ethnic neighbourhoods good;

>the jews did it;

>let me shit on some people i don't like(Buttigieg, Scorsese, etc.), and imply they are jewish academic perverts;

>>819495

Got any evidence to back that up? Or are you the fringe contrarian yourself?

>>819563

Back what up?

That we are small?

That im an /christian/ oldfag?

Ive already shown why Jones sounds like he comes from the world of Dragon Age

>>819567

Peterson was a big influence on me as well

>>819554

It's easy to oversimplifcate everything and trying to turn it in ridicule to discredit anyone.

I don't understand why do you have a problem against EMJ, for no rational reason whatsoever.

You really smell like a shill or worst, a /r/Christian lukewarm christian.

>>819592

>It's easy to oversimplifcate everything and trying to turn it in ridicule to discredit anyone.

That's it, though.

He's just trying to impress people thinking he's saying something deep and varied, by quoting stuff in german, and classical literature, but his ideas, once you strip all that, are repetitive and simplistic.

He seems to be good at greek, though, i think.

>I don't understand why do you have a problem against EMJ

A couple of posters keep trying to inject his crap into any discussion any chance they get, for the last couple of months.

>for no rational reason whatsoever.

Ive said it countless times.

His theological stuff is either heretical, or technically orthodox, but dime a dozen.

Both of these options means he's not worth wasting time on.

>>819597

EMJ is an islamophile. It's all over his books. Martin Luther was a "Horny monk". Mohammed had some honest misunderstandings. All my LOLs. Almost every "Anti semite" real or otherwise becomes an Islamophile.

There are Mohammedan rape gangs who target White Christians (majority) and minority Sikh girls (notice, so they'll rape White and Indian/Brown, why not Muslim/Brown or White Muslim converts? It's religiously motivated).

But EMJ says DON'T HATE THEM. IT's THE JEWS. DON'T GENERALIZE THE MUSLIMS, BUT GENERALIZE THE JEWS. Hahah what a winnie the pooh cuck.

>>819810

>>819597

Funny how the internet works. The moment you're famous and become a public figure you're supposed to be perfect and appease everyone, else you're either an idiot or a cuck. How about we recognize that his work is leading thousands of people out of porn and progressive subversion and into the catholic church. He has helped me entirely reject things like gay marriage and convert into catholicism for example.

>inb4 jordan peterson also does that

Well Jordan Peterson isn't even explicity christian. EMJ is perfectly orthodox and i agree that we shouldn't be put into every discussion, nor he is a theologian, but i think he is still very valuable. He obviously the only person a christian/catholic should listen to, but he has bore good fruit.

>>819821

>The moment you're famous and become a public figure

You have a very low threshold for declaring someone famous, lol.

>How about we recognize that his work is leading thousands of people out of porn

>Dude, screw basic theology and logical consistency, as long as he says trad stuff good and thots are bad;

If all i wanted was to hear that stuff, i could get a sermon on the subject from some random imam, and would get the same message, except without all the pseudo-intellectual cruft.

But i guess it's all the same for your muzzie-lover idol.

>>819842

Of course he ins't "famous" but he's a public figure now, a relatively famous person in our circles. And as soon as this type of person have differing opinions on a subject that isn't popular with the demographic, or is even wrong about something, that persons suddenly becomes an shill or something like that.

>If all i wanted was to hear that stuff, i could get a sermon on the subject from some random imam, and would get the same message, except without all the pseudo-intellectual cruft.

How many people have these imams convinced through reason that X is bad for society? And what are you doing to convince people to go to church and abandon sinfulness?

>But i guess it's all the same for your muzzie-lover idol.

You are the one who seems to make idols of people. I simply recognize the good but also the shortcomings of Jones.

>>819865

>Of course he ins't "famous" but he's a public figure now, a relatively famous person in our circles.

No, he's a nobody that no one on this site knew about, until 2 posters started spamming about him recently.

To go "well, everyone knows him now" is like saying that that crappy Game of Throne browser game is a work of art we should debate about, because you see ads for it everywhere.

>How many people have these imams convinced through reason that X is bad for society?

Quite a few. Why?

>And what are you doing to convince people to go to church and abandon sinfulness?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

>I simply recognize the good but also the shortcomings of Jones.

Which are?

Whenever i ask his fanboys what he does wrong, or is wrong about, i never get an answer.

>>819871

>No, he's a nobody that no one on this site knew about, until 2 posters started spamming about him recently. To go "well, everyone knows him now" is like saying that that crappy Game of Throne browser game is a work of art we should debate about, because you see ads for it everywhere.

I'm going to have disagree with you there, he is fairly known in tradicionalist circles, have done interviews with more proiminent people, and is expanding into my country as well. Also i talked about him fairly famous because as soon as a person is a public figure, if he commits one mistake or has different opinion that you disagree with, he's a shill or a cuck or w/e. You yourself commits mistakes and probably has opinions that i disagree with, yet i don't call you a cuck or a shill or a fool. Reasonable debate is important and respect is necessary. Insults reeks of immaturity.

>Quite a few. Why?

Well, good for you, but EMJ is doing it in a big scale and i don't see the bad in that. Maybe you don't see him as useful because you maybe be a mature christian, but there are lot of newbie lukewarm christians and even unbelievers who are disellusioned with the modern world that have known the truth about gay marriage, porn, as weapons agains't society. Even myself, someone who was always conservative knew very little about those things until i saw his videos.

>Which are?

For one i agree with you about muslims. I hate islam and i think Mohammed was a terrorist, he definitevely should read up more on islam. I think his conception of Logos is okay but nothing deep. I think him more of an historian, sociologist and researcher rather than theologian.

I think i saw you on other threads bashing him. It seemed like a personal issue..but i don't mean any hostility. You're free to dislike Jones, but i think he has his merits.

>>819199

When "moral relativists" weren't actually moral relativists. They were people who simply inverted their moral principles, claiming that evil was a virtue and that good was a vice. They demand freedom for criminals, but will restrict law abiding citizens that offend them.

>>819565

Being an "oldfag" gives you now credibility. Also, I can say some bullshit as well, like I'm a well renowned theologian (I'm not). Also you give no evidence of this "dragon age" thing. You just came here, made a claim, and backed it uo with no evidence whatsoever. For someone you claim to be, you brought no persuasive arguments.

>>820018

*No credibility

>>819821

He is an idiot when he writes books on Islam calling it just a misunderstanding, calls Islam Sola Scriptura, call Hadiths as commentary of the Quran, has never heard of Bukhari. But he knows about Islam cause "Listen, I've been to Mosques, I know about…". His argumentation for most things are "Listen, I lived in Germany… " "Listen, I was in India".

His logic is really bad at a lot of things. And he's leading thousands of people to become Islamophile. Owen Benjamin for example now is a total islamophile. He considers it a great religion and says Peace Be Upon Him whenever he says Mohammed. All so called Anti-Semites become Islamophiles because thats a big market for them. Know More Knews is another anti Jewish youtube channel and it's filled with Muslims and Muslim converts.

>>820018

>Being an "oldfag" gives you now credibility. Also, I can say some bullshit as well, like I'm a well renowned theologian (I'm not).

Sigh.

I've been here since we were doing threads reading and commenting St. Augustine's works.

Since before we even had an election for a patron saint of the board.

At one point, we wanted to make a charity drive.

And yes, when it comes to saying "EMJ was never mentioned on /christian/ until very recently", "i've been here since shortly after this place got founded" is a valid argument.

>Also you give no evidence of this "dragon age" thing. You just came here, made a claim, and backed it uo with no evidence whatsoever.

>>819426

It's pretty much Asit tal-eb, except EMJ went a bit Plato's theory of forms about it.

>>819899

>I'm going to have disagree with you there, he is fairly known in tradicionalist circles, have done interviews with more proiminent people, and is expanding into my country as well.

Never heard of him myself, and i know a ton of fringe speakers and authors.

>Also i talked about him fairly famous because as soon as a person is a public figure, if he commits one mistake or has different opinion that you disagree with, he's a shill or a cuck or w/e.

That wasn't me.

I just called his theology likely heretical, and def. pseudo-intellectual and overrated.

>You yourself commits mistakes and probably has opinions that i disagree with, yet i don't call you a cuck or a shill or a fool. Reasonable debate is important and respect is necessary. Insults reeks of immaturity.

In that case, him getting into online beefs with people, implying anyone they didn't like is a pervert, and writing entire books just to talk smack about them makes him the most childish of us all.

>Well, good for you, but EMJ is doing it in a big scale and i don't see the bad in that. Maybe you don't see him as useful because you maybe be a mature christian, but there are lot of newbie lukewarm christians and even unbelievers who are disellusioned with the modern world that have known the truth about gay marriage, porn, as weapons agains't society. Even myself, someone who was always conservative knew very little about those things until i saw his videos.

Problem is, his ideas can and do lead to heretical conclusions pretty easily(someone in one thread understood that Jones was talking about white people as "the racial embodiment of Logos" which is heretical on a bunch of levels. Also see >>820040)

For crying out loud, we have 2000 years of christian theology.

We need to be selective in the stuff we support, especially for people still "on milk", and not just think any faggot with a microphone that hates on jews, thots and "le clown world" is some talented sage we should listen to, regardless of his area of expertise.

>For one i agree with you about muslims. I hate islam and i think Mohammed was a terrorist, he definitevely should read up more on islam. I think his conception of Logos is okay but nothing deep. I think him more of an historian, sociologist and researcher rather than theologian.

Atleast on that we agree.

>I think i saw you on other threads bashing him. It seemed like a personal issue..but i don't mean any hostility. You're free to dislike Jones, but i think he has his merits.

It's nothing personal.

I just consider him wrong, and a symptom of this board's unhealthy leanings towards considering anyone that speaks stuff they like to hear their greatest and wisest friends with which "they have so much in common".

>>819225

>let's destroy capitalism because that is the same as moral relativism

>>>leftypol

>>820822

>>leftypol

It's been a while since I've been on here.

Is Rush Limbaugh a Jew lover?

>>821238

He's a neocon, its required