a01b32 No.815555
I'm a believing Christian and have been for a few years now. I converted from being an atheist, but I have yet to fully join a denomination. I find many arguments from Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox compelling. But the historical, intellectual, and even some theological arguments muddle my mind, I'm trying to find a congregation that helps me live the most Christian life that I can. How should I go about doing this? Attending services at different churches, or should I remain patient and continue to pray for guidance?
____________________________
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4fd20a No.815559
Continue to pray for guidance, inform yourself as much as you can. Read the Bible, the history of the Church, the Church Fathers if you can, and let your moral compass guide you as well.
Really take your time to observe.
This exact thing has tormented me for a long time, until I found the answer and settled down.
If I tell you which one it is, it's not gonna do you any good, because you have to find out for yourself in order to be fully convinced in your heart.
A few hints I want to give you are:
>really think about the intercession of saints
>really think about icons
>really study how those and all other theological points were treated along all history.
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4fd20a No.815561
One more thing you should do, attend Church services, feel it out and rationalize only what's absolutely necessary and most importantly, let the Lord guide you.
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23ee93 No.815568
>>815555
Though I am a member of one of the largest of them, I will honestly tell you: no matter which one you join, it will be foul and you will despise it. Christ is with you wherever you go. A true Christian, who is a manifestation of Jesus' own life in the world can participate in any sect and be holy, or none at all except the things Jesus wants us all to do. Pray for guidance, and don't make the mistake of rushing into them.
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a01b32 No.815578
>>815559
>>815561
>>815568
Thank you all this has been helpful. I have church going family who are very understanding and have encouraged me to take my time as well. I will continue to read Scripture, pray, and be open to the guidance of Christ, after all that is how I came to want to be a Christian. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful answers.
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c71935 No.815583
>>815568
Is it really possible to live as a faithful and good Christian without belonging to a specific sect?
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7dce76 No.815586
>>815555
Can you give some more information about your current mindset? How do you feel about, for example, on sola scriptura vs. Church tradition passed down from apostolic succession?
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431ab2 No.815588
>>815583
No it isn't. You need Jesus' Church in order to not fall into heresy.
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23ee93 No.815589
>>815583
It's less that you belong to no sect and more that the Body of Christ (material and mystical/invisible, it has two sides) transcends all sects. A Christian is someone who lives and dies in the words of Christ, believing them with faith as the evidence for their faith, and because of this good works and doctrines flow from them. I think the following puts it best:
>A true Christian, who is born anew of the Spirit of Christ, is in the simplicity of Christ, and hath no strife or contention with any man about religion. The Christendom that is in Babel striveth about the manner how men ought to serve God and glorify him; also, how they are to know him, and what he is in his Essence and Will. And they preach positively that whosoever is not one and the same with them in every particular of knowledge and opinion, is no Christian, but a heretic. But a Christian is of no sect. He can dwell in the midst of sects, and appear in their services, without being attached or bound to any. He hath but one knowledge, and that is, Christ in him. He seeketh but one way, which[Pg 2] is the desire always to do and teach that which is right; and he putteth all his knowing and willing into the Life of Christ. He sigheth and wisheth continually that the Will of God might be done in him, and that his Kingdom might be manifested in him. His faith is a desire after God and Goodness, which he wrappeth up in a sure hope, trusting to the words of the promise, and liveth and dieth therein; though as to the true man, he never dieth. For Christ saith: Whosoever believeth in me shall never die, but hath pierced through from death to life; and, Rivers of living water shall flow from him, viz. good doctrine and works. Therefore I say that whosoever fighteth and contendeth about the Letter, is all Babel. The Letters of the Word proceed from, and stand all in, one Root, which is the Spirit of God; as the various flowers stand all in the earth, and grow about one another. They fight not with each other about their difference of colour, smell, and taste, but suffer the earth, the sun, the rain, the wind, the heat, and cold, to do with them as they please; and yet every one of them groweth in its own peculiar essence and property. Even so it is with the Children of God; they have various gifts and degrees of knowledge, yet all form one Spirit. They all rejoice at the great Wonders of God, and give thanks to the Most High in his Wisdom. Why then should they contend about him in Whom they live and have their being, and of whose substance they themselves are? It is the greatest folly that is in Babel for people to strive about religion, so that they contend vehemently about opinions of their own forging, viz. about the Letter. When the Kingdom of God consisteth of no Opinion, but in Power and Love.
By all means, be faithful and follow the disciplines, laws, etc, of your particular sect, joining one is extremely beneficial to some, most I'd presume, I did. But don't get caught up in all the drama, as you'll quickly see that people don't actually believe in God when they war over these things, what they believe in is 1) their ability to discern God's will and word 2) their own opinion about what they believe they have discerned. To some extent we can't avoid this, I have just in some form, though possibly in not a strong a way as others, done the same thing as they do, but that's exactly how faith always is, especially when it is forced to be expressed in language. Although with any persons opinion/beliefs/creeds it is the difference between me holding a book and saying "this is a book," which draws both your attention and mine to the simple fact of the book, or me saying "I believe this is a book, and x,y,z is true about this book", which draws both your and mine attention away from the simple fact of the book, and into my opinions about it.
Just be mindful
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a01b32 No.815615
>>815586
I'm conflicted on sola scriptura vs Church tradition. I converted largely by simply reading Scripture and opening myself to receive Christ as my Lord and Savior. I see the utility of some traditions in keeping the faith and practice of the faith pure, but on the other hand there are some traditions I think would hinder my ability to connect in genuine fellowship with those who believe in them.
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a01b32 No.815616
>>815589
>It's less that you belong to no sect and more that the Body of Christ transcends all sects.
That's what I was thinking when I asked that. I accept that belonging to a community in Christ is probably the best course. I'm just looking for doctrine that I calls me.
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a01b32 No.815618
>>815589
Also is that quote from Romans 14?
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23ee93 No.815625
>>815618
The quote is from Jacob Boehme, who practiced Lutheranism but was directly taught by God. It is inspired from Romans 14 and the like passages clearly though.
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7dce76 No.815629
>>815615
Well, look, I'm Orthodox and I'd argue that we should keep with the Church traditions. After all, the church fathers canonized the bible, so why not listen to their traditions as well? Anyway, if you're set on things like sola scriptura, Sola fide, et cetera, the next questions you should ask yourself is on things like predestination. See if you can rule out the reformed churches or decided if you're interested in Presbyterian vs dutch reformed churches.
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a01b32 No.815630
>>815629
I have a basic knowledge of Presbyterianism. I don't know much about any of the Dutch churches, are those like the Mennonites?
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7dce76 No.815633
>>815630
No, Mennonites are Anabaptism. They belive in things like radical pacifism. The differences from Presbyterians and Dutch Reformed (or continental reformed churches in general) are pretty minor. Though, different parishes would of course have different beliefs. If Calvinist beliefs are what you're set on, I'd suggest you look at all the RCA, Presbyterian, etc. churches near you, and figure which one aligns closet to your own beliefs.
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72764b No.815651
Pray for guidance on which one you should join
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4c4658 No.816269
>>815615
Find a "non-denominational" church, volunteer, sacrifice for them, and be "familia" (Hebrew 10:24-25), read "When the Church was a Family" by Hellerman.
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66b12e No.816281
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1e54fa No.816318
if you want to join The Church that was established by Jesus Christ then it's simple enough to find out by just looking at history
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431ab2 No.816359
>>816318
This. Come Home to Rome, OP
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d73840 No.816420
>>815555
Catholic. If you want absolute answers and a ridiculously full prayer life go Catholic.
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d0a84f No.816432
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a01b32 No.816606
>>816269
OP here, I think that something like that sounds like a really good option. The campus of my uni also has an interdenominational Christian fellowship club, when school starts up again I'll look to make some connections there as well.
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e0c255 No.816632
>>816269
>"non-denominational" church
A charismatic Baptist/Pentecostal church without the negative connotations carried by the names "Baptist" or "Pentecostal", in other words. Pastors of these churches only care about amassing large congregations for money and fame.
>volunteer
Be used like a doormat by the church to further their personal agenda. Put on a fake smile and cheery attitude every Sunday so people are inclined to come to this church every week and keep the money stream flowing.
>sacrifice for them
Vow to give a bigger slice of your paycheck to Pastor Jim each week so he can buy a nicer home or better surround sound equipment for his megachurch.
>and be "familia"
Be part of a large crowd of people, the vast majority of whom will remain strangers to you. The community is full of cliques and will happily ignore or exclude anyone different from them.
>read "When the Church was a Family" by Hellerman
A book that tries to downplay the sacrifice of Christ, written by an author who pastors at a non-denom church. Not to mention, the Church was, is, and always will be a family, however Evangelicals like Hellerman allow their pride to get in the way of assimilating to it and instead play God by creating their own heretical churches.
>>816606
I really wouldn't waste your time with a nom-denominational church, OP. I used to attend one, but the cliques, money-hungry attitudes, egomaniac pastors taking a big shit on the congregation every Sunday, etc. ultimately drove me away. I kid you not, they even sold books, shirts, and other items at the church, just like the synagogues did by the time of Christ. Their theology is very watered-down, meaning they might be good for getting you started on your Christian journey and giving you a Trinitarian Baptism, but not much else. OP, I'd like to recommend a book called "Rome Sweet Home" by Scott & Kimberly Hahn, who were an staunchly Evangelical couple that converted to Catholicism and share their Christian journey and arguments in said book. By the time I finished reading that book as a Protestant, I wanted nothing to do with Protestantism, recognizing it as false, and everything to do with Catholicism. Just over a week ago, I entered full communion with the Catholic Church and was warmly embraced by a multitude of friends and strangers alike. I truly hope you can experience the beauty of the Mass, God's mercy in the Sacrament of Penance, and Christ's presence in the Eucharist one day… I've never felt anything like it before.
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a01b32 No.816694
>>816632
You make an unanswerable case for Catholicism, the conundrum is that I have seen other unanswerable cases for other sects as well.
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cada50 No.816698
>>816694
Apply a more skeptical eye to every statement. Watch the back and forth and you'll find more useful confrontations. Everybody paints a rosy, perfect picture but there is always a flaw or a problem or an issue that will shake you. Always.
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f7ac39 No.816705
>>815555
>How should I go about doing this?
Join the RCIA at your local Catholic church and they will sort out everything for you. Remember salvation is not attainable outside of the Church that Jesus Christ Himself established.
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de3015 No.816709
>>816705
I'd recommend he joins a FSSP/ICKSP chapel, they generally do a one-on-one experience for converts. RCIA takes far too long for someone discerning the faith imo. I've had friends try it and then leave 5 months in because they feel disengaged (though, the onus falls on the bad shepherd)
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95eb21 No.816713
>>816709
there is an icrsp church near me. what do you mean by "one on one" experience ?
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de3015 No.816716
>>816713
You directly talk to a priest and it's much more intimate than RCIA, which tends to be gathering of many (would-be) converts, usually it takes a year+ to be baptized/confirmed. If you go to the FSSP/ICKSP you can become Catholic in months. Plus you get the Mass of all the Saints.
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95eb21 No.816717
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d863eb No.827721
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5cccb2 No.828206
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5cccb2 No.828207
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5cccb2 No.828209
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5cccb2 No.828211
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5cccb2 No.828212
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5cccb2 No.828213
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5cccb2 No.828214
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5cccb2 No.828215
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