/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Blessed be, ora pro nobis

Totally invalid. God save us from the counterfeit Church

>>812573

>>812584

The two genders

>>812563

I'm Catholic so I must believe them to be infallible. Remember, anons, that all of us are grave sinners and yet we are all capable of sanctification, and that's all sainthood truly means - to be sanctified.

>>812563

It's impossible for them to be saints, these canonizations proved that Catholicism is false by contradicting the papal infallibility dogma of Vatican I. I'm shocked that more people don't realize this an convert to Orthodoxy.

>>812641

I'm Orthodox myself, and I don't understand your logic here at all. If someone in the Roman Church believes the doctrines of V1 to be infallible dogma - doctrines which Orthodoxy vehemently rejects, and which even certain Eastern Catholic churches (ie Melkites) also reject - then why on earth would such a person convert to Orthodoxy because of Roman violation of V1?

>>812646

Because most people don't start with Vatican I dogmas and then choose the Catholic Church as a consequence, they start by believing that the Catholic Church is the true church and then as a consequence accept the teachings of things like Vatican I. If the Church proves itself false by contradicting its own previous dogma then they will reject the Church and hence have no problem rejecting its dogmas.

>>812563

its is a common consensus among theologians that canonization is infallible, so I would give em the benefit of the doubt, perhaps a deathbed repentence.

>>812653

But it would make far more sense to become a sede in that case than an Orthodox Christian. If you believed Orthodoxy Christianity to be heretical falsehood before JPII's canonization, why would Orthodoxy suddenly become true in light of that fact? Sedes, on the other hand, don't have that same logical error of throwing out literally everything they once knew and switching to something they once decried as evil deception.

>>812672

It would but it would mean you would no longer be a meme convert.

I agree. If one is preVII catholic you can hardly become orthodox in the "light of VII subversion"

Very, very uneasy.

Probably invalid due to subversion.

>>812684

Yeah, all of them at the very least knowingly covered up for child rapists. The unconcern and lack of righteous indignation is completely demonic.

Modernists canonize themselves to give themselves more validity. We hope a future pope makes it clear that they never were…

>>812688

>>812692

>>812683

The double effect principle, I suppose - which states that if fulfilling an obligation to do something would cause greater harm than the good done by fulfilling said obligation, then you may wait until better circumstances come, and only then fulfill this obligation. The obligation doesn't disappear - you still have it, but the evil circumstances in a way "block" you from doing it.

I suppose this is what happened, because if the abuse didn't leak out, apostasy, atheism and subsequent damnation of millions, or tens of millions (along with other effects, like the rapid spread of abortion and sexual sins due to apostasy), could be avoided. Do you think Ireland would have happened if not for the scandal?

>>812612

>I'm Catholic so I must believe them to be infallible

As far as I know, declaration of sainthood is not infallible.

>>812769

It was thought to be infallible before, but with the removal of the devil's advocate and only requiring one miracle, we can theorize that it isn't anymore. Why would they even try to change it? The process being less rigorous just puts doubt into our minds. Especially when they're canonizing extremely controversial figures, like Paul VI.

>>812772

No, it was consider infallible because of the formula used to pronounce the declaration of canonization, which hasn't changed.

>>812731

Official Papal Canonizations are infallible. If you're truly uncomfortable with it, check yourself.

>>812772

There's nothing controversial about Paul VI outside of complete libel from Jewish newspapers.

>>813250

Get in the Ark before you drown.

>>813435

Nothing controversial about the Novus Ordo? Are you serious? I assume you are some dumb boomer who has completely drunk the kool-aid.

>>813475

And I assume you're a ani socail 25 year old man who can't seem to differentiate Theology with traditionalism. Doesn't feel nice to be called out huh? We Catholics are bound by duty towards tge Church which contains the Holy Spirit. If yoy reject this, you reject God himself. Don't get me wrong, I prefer a traditionalist Church. But don't call yourself a traditionalist while rejecting the traditional standpoint of obligation to the Lords Church.

>>813475

>Nothing controversial about the Novus Ordo?

You're changing the topic, we're talking about Paul VI. The man is a Pope-Saint, show some respect.

>>813481

To follow up what you're saying, brother, to reject the last 3-4 Popes it more or less to admit you're not in the Catholic Church.

>>812563

It doesn't matter how I feel, because canonisation is infallible.

>>816930

This canonization has rules which actually has very little to do with what you did in life. That’s like asking if I am mad there are canonized saints who potentially never existed.

They're clearly political in nature. Before Vatican II, such people would have never been canonized. But, the Church is still the Church…

>>816986

>The Protestants basically screwed themselves forever with their laughable misunderstanding of Papal Infallibility

Ftfy. If the Pope puts ketchup on everything he eats, that doesn't mean his eating habits become a doctrine and are therefore infallible.

papal infallibility has been used like how many times? 3, 4?

>>817058

Yeah and I think one of the times was to confirm Papal Infallibility was indeed a thing.

Saint Pope John Paul II was top tier. Fit as a fiddle, survived assassination twice and one of the few men to bring down communism.

>>812747

t. consequentialist

>>817465

It's not double effect as covering up a pedophile priest is intrinsically evil.

I feel hopeful in God's mercy for all mankind that in spite of everything negative that happened during their papacies that they made it to heaven, I hope we here will all go there some day.

If JPII is a Saint, then the Koran he kissed is a Third Class Relic. Now just think about that for a second.

>>820381

lmao

For upwards of 700 years just two popes were declared saints, Pius V and Pius X. During the time the faith was spread all over the world.

The Vatican II church is well on the way to declaring every Vatican II pope a saint. During its 60 year existence they caused 80% of Catholics to apostatize from the faith and the rest they have fooled to go to a false religion, the counterfeit Bogus Ordo church.

"By their fruits you shall know them…"

>>820420

Calm down, Vatican II has some problems, but in no way is it going bring down the Church. Those men are in the Lords kingdom, and no matter what you say they will still be there. And by the way, there are plenty of Popes who were blessed before the Council. Not exactly at the rank of Saints, but in Heaven nonetheless.

>>820432

>in no way is it going bring down the Church

It's not going to because it already has.

>>820566

>calling Christ a liar

Enjoy hell, buddy

>>820567

>condemning someone else to hell

Enjoy being judged by God as you judged others.

>>820568

You condemed yourself by calling Christ a liar, im only telling you what will happen if you don't repent.

>>820570

Not a Sede, but the Sede argument is that if you recognize Francis as a legitimate Pope, the gates of Hell have prevailed over the Church, and the Rock.

>>820571

But the thing is you see, Hell itself cannot overrun Christ's Church. The Pope is valid, those Saints are praying for you in Heaven, and Rome will regain it's strength (would be hilarious if Francis somehow does it given his passive nature and the fact it would stun every Sede, but I have no clue).

>>820580

>Amazonian Synod begins

>Modernist Popes all chattering about married priests and other heresy

>suddenly the doors fly open the are all stunned they expected weak feeble Francis

>a group of men carry Pope Francis only he is dressed like Pope Pius XII

>stands up and declares the 2nd Pentecost is truely at hand

>reaffirms there will not and never will be married Priests or female clergy

>declares Eucharist on the hand a heretical act with no links to tradition within the Latin Rite

>declares Ex Cathedra the Trinidintine Mass is the only true and proper Sunday mass of the Latin Rite

>orders that all Churches will hold a mass to Concecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary or face being labeled a schismatic

>acknowledges SPPX as in full Communion

>offers total pardon to all Sedes who Submit to the One True Pope of the Holy Apostolic Catholics Church

>declares that Christianity and Jesus is the one and only path to Salvation and all other religions are in mockery or demonic

>offers a Pleniary Indulgence to all Catholics who join in a 54 day Novena to end all heresy

>removes the takes the red hat from every traitor Cardinal and brings in 12 good men to help find new Cardinals who will never compromise the faith or fall for heresy

>puts the St Michael Prayer at the end of every mass along

>Declares the year of St Joseph First Protector of Jesus and Protector of the Church including pleniary indulgence for anyone who prays to him daily

I pray the Lord for the day this happens. By his grace and will it could be done if it is within his divine plan.

>>820660

>modernist popes

there's more than one pope?

You know their Saints because they make heretics salty

>>820660

>puts the St Michael Prayer at the end of every mass along

Wait, Novus Ordites don't say this at the end of every mass? Thank winnie the pooh I've never gone to a non-Latin Mass church, it sounds horrible.

>>820714

Not all NO masses, just the ones in Liberal cities/counties. I live in a Blue state but live in a Red county and at the end of my NO masses we always pray the St. Michael prayer at the end of mass. Even when we got a new Monsignor, on his first day an old lady in the laity started the St. Michael prayer when the Monsignor didn't.

The NO mass isn't bad, just some people make it bad.

>>820735

Doesn't the very fact that the NO allows corrupt/liberal priests to choose what to include in their masses indicate that it's bad…? Priests shouldn't get to dictate what happens in a mass.

>>820669

Herp derp bishops though the modernist would probably try to elect their own Pope if that did happen.

>>820742

They could literally do the same thing with the TLM.

>>820771

They really can't. There's no room for priests to choose anything about the TLM. Meanwhile the Novus Ordo gives so much leeway that you get Catholic churches where the worship is indistinguishable from Baptist churches, or is even worse (at least Baptists never have half-naked women singing pop music or doing "liturgical dancing").

>>820772

If a TLM priest REALLY wanted to they could, but no liberal priest ever conducts TLM mass so it would never happen. If Vat 2 never came to fruition than you can be sure that some liberal priests would find a way to bastardize the Latin Mass.

>>820775

That was why they made the NO because they couldn’t figure out how to bastardize the TLM so they just threw out the TLM and created a New Rite and then shuffled out priests who refused to do the New Rite into areas where they had no influence and made weird rules like you had to beg your Modernist Bishop for permission to do TLM.

The TLM is incorruptible which is why they feared it so much. Same with the Rosary.

They’ve been trying for years to corrupt it but they never could so they instead had to downplay it and try and convince people to stop praying it.