/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Lurk moar.

> God judges you based on whether or not you believed

It's based on a lot more than just believing. It's turning yourself over to Him in all aspects of your life. About following His commandments, avoiding the short-term pleasures of this Earth, and thanking Him for His Sacrifice.

> Sentenced to most agonizing thing ever.

Wanna know the sad truth? We all deserve it. Think of how much needless suffering we allow daily. Most of our goods are made by slave labor in China so we can spend $1 on shoes. Most of the world is starving to death. And while we all pretend we're good people just because we haven't killed anyone, in truth we probably all embody all 7 deadly sins.

It is only through recognizing the Sacrifice made for us and following Jesus that we can become worthy of heaven.

>Punishment is infinite.

Yes. There are an infinite number of opportunities to turn to Him. Evidence abound everywhere. Refusal to turn to Him is denying His constant reaching out. It's willful self-destruction.

>>802965

seriously

>>802972

this.

we have this thread about 6 times a day, and we haven't gotten any more efficient at it, because you don't want to hear it.

you have no business being in heaven unless you are spotless. Jesus is the only way to achieve that.

>>802965

you give the intentions of people far too much credit. Hell is what naturally comes from rejecting God. If people do not wish to know God, they will not. God, if he has saved any of us, saved us while we were still sinners, but that didn't change the fact that he is incompatible with sin. We literally can't have a relationship with God while we're in a state of severe sin, it is the very nature of sin. It is either God, or sin. If men do not know God, it is because they have not repented, nor have they sought the truth, or it is outside of their control. If they refused all calls to repent, nor have sought the truth in good faith, they deserve to be deprived of the beatific vision and punished according to the weight of their crimes. And if it were really outside of their control, we leave it to God to decide, he is just and will make the most perfect decision.

Clearly the vast majority of people choose evil [the world] and do not even make an effort towards perusing the truth in honest faith. Most are npc's who might act in good faith, but they reason in bad faith. I do believe very few of them will be saved. Of course I am a sinner as well, I do not deserve the beatific vision, no one does. I just have faith. Justified faith, but still faith.

>>803059

i don't want to burn forever. i want god and love and a divine king of benevolence. but i just don't think it is true. why won't he help me. i scream and cry and stay up all night crying for help but he never comes. i want god but it isn't a matter of wanting it is a matter of believing something to be true

>>802988

i agree we don't deserve heaven but i don't think we deserve hell.

>>803072

if your issue really is with knowing whether or not it is true, I can give you all the public evidence that God exists, and Christianity is true you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0iDNLxmWVM This one is always a good start.

But what you said doesn't seem to be a problem of truth, but a problem of God. Understand, God is the God, not you, he knows every suffering he has allowed to come your way, and allowed it anyways. Why do you think he did that? I'll tell you why, it is for your benefit. There is no truth without suffering, and it is by suffering that we come to learn the truth. Why do you think it is after natural disasters, in darkened times, and in the poor we see all the more [!] people converting to Christianity? It is because they have suffered, and for it, they came to see the truth. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Whatever evil you think God caused, know he died crucified with his hands nailed to a cross, beat and tortured. If you wished death on him, he has already died, and he died for you.

Repent, and I mean it, actually repent because whether you understand it right now or not, God truly does deserve an apology from you for your failures, hypocrisies, and crookedness. Repent, and try not to fail. Seek and you will find, I did. I found both public intellectual evidence, and eventually private confirmation.

>>803083

if you can just prove it as scientific fact then it isn't a matter of faith. and it privileges me over those who must have faith and believe without evidence. i sincerely don't dislike or hate god. further more how is hell justified. especially considering he made me this way.

>>803090

lmao, just looks at people like you, spitting on God even though he has given you the gospel, the Scripture, the prophets, the Church, a promise of eternal life and died for your sins. No matter what God does you will be ungrateful, and you will suffer the consequences of your willingly accepted ungratitude.

The people you know, you, and me, will get the consequences of our choices. Maybe you should think twice before spitting on God by saying he just isn't there because you aren't given your demands when you throw a coin in the God wishing well.

>>803072

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye search for me with all your heart.

Jeremiah 29:13

You haven't found God because you're still holding things against Him, blaming Him for your troubles. Seek the true God, with all of your heart, and you will find Him.

>>803092

why does it always come back to this. i don't understand so i am an evil reprobate spitting on god. aren't you supposed to have compassion and help me. i am sincerely and honestly afraid and don't understand how eternal punishment can be justified. as to your argument about the scripture, the prophets, the church and the promise of eternal life, i wasn't raised with these things and have no knowledge of the matters. i have been seeking for years now but can't understand. i have made several threads asking for help and every single thread devolves into telling me how reprobate and terrible i am, and that i should just give up trying to seek salavation and understand and just go to hell. NO ONE HERE SEEMS TO CARE ABOUT THE SALVATION OF SOULS AND INSTEAD IS CONTENT TO WATCH EVERYONE GO TO HELL AND LAUGH AT THESE PEOPLE EVEN WHEN THE ACTIVELY SOUGHT! HELP

>>803097

All those things are available to you. You have the Bible, the Fathers of the Church, the saints.

Instead of writting in caps about how much help you need, just stop being a retard that spits on God because the fact that God is just triggers you.

Eternal punishment is justified because people like you are given everything they need and still willingly decide to trash it, because you want people to tell you that literally no matter what you do, you will eventually end up with a nice parcel in Heaven, so you can forget about God and Christ and not worry about those silly things.

Hell exists for you, for me, and for everyone else. Don't scream at us when it is you that doesnt seem to care about your salvation, because you consider it "incompatible" with your unjust image of God. No matter what we say, no matter what we tell you, you don't ahve the slight wisdom that is needed to acknowledge that Hell exists because people willingly go to it despite being offered salvation.

>>803097

Also, you are insane and making up retarded stories about what people tell you. You are a shameless slanderer, you have no interest in what anyone says. You just dismiss anything you dont want to hear. People offer you wisdom, and you reject it, then complaining about how poorly you are treated.

This is your "caring about salvations of souls", telling you that everything you say is right, that Hell doesnt' exist and that you are already saved :), anything short of that is like acid to you.

>>803102

>>803099

>>803100

alright i am sorry. i already said i am pursuing religion and have been going to church. I just don't understand this is all. suppose i were to go to heaven and i look down and see someone in hell, both he and i are sinners but i believed jesus christ was real and died for my sins but he didn't. it is then just that he suffers and i don't, right?

>>803111

Fine, I'll do your homework for you. Read this: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm

>>803111

You say "he didn't" as if it was some kind of random, arbitrary thing where some people just happen to be lucky and believe.

Both you and him are given grace, that is, something you both don't deserve and is freely given to them. The only thing you have to do to not mes it up is to accept this grace, which will develop faith and works. But some people decide that is not good enough for them, and out of pride and perversion, regarding the faith aspect, they reject Christ. Go ask people why they don't beleive in Christ, and you will see how much perversion, ingratitude and folly starts to come out. After all, what do you expect form people who denounce the Son of God as some kind of farce? They will be held accountable for everything they do and say. If someone received a distorted message that impaired the faith, God will know, but God will also know when people make excuses.

>>803073

Think of all the times you've lied, acted out of wrath, committed adultery, had idols you held above God.

You're not a good person. There's only one good person, and you're not Him.

>>803247

i understand i am not a good person, but i am not an infinitely terrible person. i don't understand what the purpose of tormenting me forever is

>>803114

yes he didn't he had faith in some other religion and thought the same thing would happen to you.

>>803318

>i don't understand what the purpose of tormenting me forever is

There seems to be a misunderstanding here. The torment isn't something that happens to you, it's something you do to yourself as a byproduct of willingly rejecting God. Think of it like how alcoholism destroys your liver; it wasn't that you were drinking alcohol and then suddenly someone decided to punish you by screwing up your liver, you did that on your own by choosing the short term pleasures of alcohol instead of your long term health.

Read The Great Divorce by C. S. Lewis, and watch vid related.

>>803324

I don't care that he thinks the same thing will happen to me lmao, just like when I was in college people thought it was me who was wrong in some problems and in the end it was them.

We don't follow Christianity randomly, we can dissect and argument against any religion that opposes Christianity, which is what the first Christians did. That is why there is a huge theological christian tradition of apologetics and constant missions, that just aren't there in other religions, which are more of a LARPing cultural custom

I think your characterization of hell is a bit wonky. There's nothing in scripture that says hell is "the worst torture conceivable", just numerous, varied metaphors for isolation from the kingdom of heaven.

I would meditate on God's justice - not the aspect of God judging everyone for his sins, but the aspect of God judging rightly and fairly. I think we can take seriously scripture's pronouncements that those who are ignorant of the Law will be judged less strictly than those who are hypocrites - who "believe", but don't act like it. How can two people both destined for "hell" be judged with varying severity? That's for God to know, but we can trust his judgment.

On our end, our focus must be on seeking God's kingdom and righteousness first. We are not responsible for saving people. Manipulating as many people as possible into an intellectual assent is not a valid way of witnessing to the gospel.