/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>802083

How are the easterners shoving down the Liturgy of Saint John chrysostom down people's throats when they don't even do proselytization?

As a Roman Catholic, even I appreciate the Liturgy of st. John chrysostom.

You don't like it that's? cool.

No one's forcing you to go East.

LITURGY👏 IS👏 NOT👏 ABOUT👏 YOU 👏

>>802084

>How are the easterners shoving down the Liturgy of Saint John chrysostom down people's throats when they don't even do proselytization?

Within the Orthodox Church. Western rites are shunned constantly.

>As a Roman Catholic, even I appreciate the Liturgy of st. John chrysostom.

Ok?

> No one's forcing you to go East.

You guys are by sucking so damn much.

>>802085

ok then I'll stay home and read the church fathers myself. If something isn't beautiful why should I subject myself to it?

What is awkward or cringe about it?

"Drawing your mind to God" isn't the purpose of it, although if it does, that's good.

But thowing buzzwords without giving actual criticism won't make for good discussion.

>>802086

Sounds like a (you) problem.

I bet you don't even know that Pope Francis and the Feds are trying to get rid of all the bad people in the Church. News flash there's more to the church than just memes.

>>802087

It obviously wasn't intended to be done in English. Everything is off. Probably has something to do with all of this being done in Greek originally at some point.

Latin mass just feels a lot more natural. Even traditional Protestants (Lutherans and Anglicans) feel more natural and…..Godly.

>"Drawing your mind to God" isn't the purpose of it, although if it does, that's good.

I mean, that's literally what I was told was the purpose of it. That and it was specifically constructed to fight heresies.

>But thowing buzzwords without giving actual criticism won't make for good discussion.

Clue me in on what buzzwords I'm using so I can avoid them in the future when I go to bible college.

>>802086

I bet you are the type to abandon your own mother if she was sick.

>>802089

>It obviously wasn't intended to be done in English. Everything is off. Probably has something to do with all of this being done in Greek originally at some point.

>Latin mass just feels a lot more natural. Even traditional Protestants (Lutherans and Anglicans) feel more natural and…..Godly.

Can you explain why, though? Something wrong about the cadence of the texts in English, maybe? And do you actually understand the structure of the liturgy, and what the prayers and songs are saying?

>I mean, that's literally what I was told was the purpose of it. That and it was specifically constructed to fight heresies.

… The point of the Liturgy is to be the "common work" of God and the Church, where the Church offers itself to God and receives God in the Eucharist. Because the Liturgy is riddled with references to the scriptures, and is the result of centuries of expressing the faith, it can of course "draw your mind to God", but if it doesn't (because it's not well done, or because there's too little people to make a proper choir, for example), it hasn't failed to fulfill its function anyway.

You already have prayer books, the Bible, almsgiving, etc. outside of the Liturgy to "draw your mind to God", you know.

>Clue me in on what buzzwords I'm using so I can avoid them in the future when I go to bible college.

I mean that yelling "awkward" and "cringe" and "ethnic club" without actually telling us what your problem is just makes your OP sound like a shitpost.

>>802083

>attend a schismatic mass

<be surprised when it's flawed

whoah…

>>802092

>Something wrong about the cadence of the texts in English, maybe?

Bingo.

>And do you actually understand the structure of the liturgy, and what the prayers and songs are saying?

I mean, it IS in English, yes, I know what they say and what they mean.

>I mean that yelling "awkward" and "cringe" and "ethnic club" without actually telling us what your problem is just makes your OP sound like a shitpost.

Well, thats literally what it feels like. If that feels like a shitpost then….dunno what to say.

>>802097

>Bingo.

I see. The church I go to doesn't say the Liturgy in English, so I can't tell you much about it. But then the issue is with the quality of the translation, not the Liturgy itself, no? Although I guess it's problematic if the anaphora is not properly translated. This might be a bit much to ask, but do you remember an example of a sentence that came off "wrong" during the anaphora?

>I mean, it IS in English, yes, I know what they say and what they mean.

Do you understand the structure, however? Although it's the same as a Catholic Mass so I guess you do, but actually understanding what's going on and why it's happening that way can be a big help if you don't already know.

>Well, thats literally what it feels like. If that feels like a shitpost then….dunno what to say.

Actually saying what it is you're complaining about would be helpful, for one.

That aside… Do you have an example of a Christian service (whether Catholic or Protestant) that comes off well in English? The churches I went to while I was in the US used either Greek or Arabic, and I don't remember having an issue with their liturgies. I did go to a Western Rite liturgy once, but I honestly didn't pay attention (hearing an electric piano used as a wannabe organ throughout the liturgy probably messed with me…).

>>802091

That's because you haven't been looking hard enough

http://fortune.com/2018/12/21/pope-catholic-church-sex-abuse/

https://www.chicagocatholic.com/vatican/-/article/2019/04/24/pope-francis-to-restructure-roman-curia-with-major-office-for-evangelization

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/only-the-u.s.-fed-can-clean-up-the-church

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/02/gay-people-should-not-join-catholic-clergy-pope-francis-says

https://www.numbersusa.com/news/cardinal-robert-sarah-mass-migration-new-form-slavery

There's one thing you have to remember, friend. It's been over 100 years since Fatima. The devil's permitted time is up. There will be a cleansing of Holy Mother Church you just have to have faith.

>>802091

And I was talking about Jesus' church not The Divine Liturgy of st. John chrysostom

You guys are too hard on the music ministries. Parishes make due with what they got. If you care that much try donating your time or money and improving it yourself. The choirs too.

>>802083

Brother, if you're going to a church because the romists aren't doing so hot and not because of the theological differences reevaluate your decision. The liturgy is a bit clunky, yeah, but as >>802101 said the parish choir will be indicative of the quality of the liturgy, and often times those people have jobs outside of the church, especially in a small parish.

It is a shame that the Western rite isn't getting more attention, but it has its liturgical faults too (st. Tihkon's liturgy being ripped from the Anglicans, the authenticity of the liturgies, etc.).

>>802099

So we should ignore Novus Ordo, the lies of Vatican I and II, the Filioque, absolute divine simplicity, the corruption, the sex abuse… because strange unconfirmed apparitions in Russia 100 years ago indicate… something about Mary.

K just wanted to clarify that.

>>802111

I guess we have to start somewhere bringing the faith for the first 1000 years back to the West.

>>802115

There is no Marian Apparition that happened in Russia 100 years ago. Why would she go there? There was a Bolshevik Revolution going on.

Do you even know where Fatima is?

>>802120

>>802115

Unless you're talking about our lady of Kazan? The same Marian Apparition that affirmed what was said in Fatima?

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/our-lady-of-kazan-and-marys-affinity-for-russia-64919

And don't twist my words. When Our Lady of Fatima was talking about the 100 years of satan trying to destroy the church, she was referencing the errors of Russia (aka communism).

This thread is what's cringe. OP, go through this series and come back to us later, because you seem to have some serious misunderstandings about the point of the liturgy:

https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/spiritandtruth

>>802096

The uniate liturgies are the same.

The Liturgy is beautiful and sounds like heaven. You can count on it.

But I do think Orthodox in the West need to stop foisting old world traditions on to people. Just that this isn't one of them. I think there's an old saying "Don't bring your prayer rule to another monastery", but Orthodox have stopped listening to their own proverbs. Some confuse their own localized traditions with canonical teaching, and it's only going to cause resentment (or at best, accusations that converts are LARPers and not acclimatizing to orthodoxy in a natural way).

>>802238

This. Especially with a good choir, it can bring me to tears.

And yes, there is a noticeable lack of charity, among convert and cradle churches alike. It does turn new people and people without thick skin (which is the majority of people) away. I don't know what can be done to discontinue this habit, but we should take care to be charitable while not conceding any doctrine of the faith.

I attend a Ukrainian Uniate Divine Liturgy here in Brazil, we all pray in ukrainian, if you aren't born in an slavic ethinic community is not the Church's problem, go for Latin Mass instead.

>>802083

It is an ethnic club dude lmao go to the OCA if you want an American liturgy.

>>802099

TRUST THE PLAN

>>802116

True, it'll be rough but monasticism is healthy here in the US for western rite. I have high hopes. I was just illustrating that it wasn't perfect and will need some work to get on the same level as the eastern rite (in my opinion).

>>802316

Amen, 100% faith in the promise of Christ. For He will come to save His bride from the evils of satan.

>>802123

Not that anon, but this is interesting. How does this tie into Pope Leo XIII's vision about Satan being given total power over the world to destroy the Church in 100 years?

>>802083

I hate to break it to you but the Orthodox Church is growing in America while the contemporary churches are shrinking, just because you have difficulty paying attention during liturgy and don't particularly enjoy traditional music doesn't mean it is going to fail here.

>>802707

High churches in general are growing. Latin Mass Catholic Churches seem to be exploding in popularity. And, Evangelicalism has become stagnant, which is a break of the trend that has been going since the 1960's.

>>802084

>As a Roman Catholic, even I appreciate the Liturgy of st. John chrysostom.

That's because literally anything looks good compared to the winnie the pooh Novus Ordo lol.

>>802718

NOrmies can't meme.

>>802722

And neither can (you)

>>802734

Shoo shoo NOrmie.

>>802735

Shoo shoo Protestant

>>802738

I'm so Protestant, I have a giant statue of Martin Luther in my house.

Oh wait, that's Pope Francis lmao.