/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I don't know about the Last Judgement, but I'll agree with the gist of what you say.

Only that God didn't create Satan. He created Lucifer.

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." -Ezekiel 28:14,15

"Till iniquity was found in thee." Sin and death are aberrations and not of God. Otherwise, God created him as the highest of his kind. Only later did Lucifer do himself in:

"Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." - verse 17

>>802047

A few weeks ago, it really seriously hit home that Christ's crucifixion was partially my fault. I realize that He died for all men, and that I'm only one man out of the trillions that ever were and ever will be, but it's still a very unsettling thought. Like, maybe if I hadn't masturbated that one time, maybe the scourges would have hurt our Lord just a tiny bit less. It's the sort of thing that makes your head feel light.

>>802047

The "Big Band" is made by scientists, not by God.

Read the first chapter of Genesis to know how the universe was made.

>>802052

Orthodox tradition recognizes Lucifer, Satan, the devil… as being the same being. He is also called Mastema in Jubilees (which is only considered inspired by non-Chalcedonians but yeah).

>>802066

Yes. Even the the early followers of Jesus’ earthly ministry, who would have never wanted to see him crucified and were personally devastated by it, even they were complicit in His crucifixion. We are ALL complicit as second degree murders because, as fallen sinners, we ALL cooperate with the forces of spiritual evil that led to it. And that’s true regardless of however much we “profess” to love Him. (And indeed, this why we confess that Jesus is Lord rather than profess, because if we were perfect then we wouldn’t need Him, but we aren’t so we do.)

>>802070

1. The Genesis account is true.

2. God creates all things, so whatever fantastical constructs that that cosmologists create (and they are fantastical and awe-inspiring) God creates that too.

3. As a point of interest, the Big Bang theory was proposed by an RC priest named Lemaître. It was the first scientific confirmation that the Genesis account was right in stating that the universe had a definite beginning (up till that point, scientists had assumed the universe itself was eternal). So I don’t think this is a debate worth having, at least not in this moment.

>>802070

>Orthodox tradition recognizes Lucifer, Satan, the devil… as being the same being. He is also called Mastema in Jubilees (which is only considered inspired by non-Chalcedonians but yeah).

Yes, but Orthodoxy would stop short of saying that God created evil or death. That's all I'm pointing out. I'm not even sure that Calvinists believe this, but I would guess that they're the only ones who might, since they have a very rigid definition of Providence. In their zeal to give God the glory to everything, they also make him the originator of evils. It's twisted.

Ezekiel says that Lucifer was created perfectly, but "iniquity was FOUND" in him. God didn't place it there. Lucifer's own pride created it.

>>802076

I’m confused at this. Isn’t God the only uncreated anything? God creates everything. Anything “found” in one of his created angels is also created by God.

>>802066

Just prayed a Divine Mercy Chaplet and the Rosary and had another realization that made my head get all light. Even though I am partially responsible for the suffering of Christ, Christ has forgiven me. Not even just as God, though obviously He does forgive me as God. But he also forgives me as a man. Our sins offend God on a spiritual level, but they also offended Christ as a man and in a very bodily sense, in the form of whips and nails and thorns and hours on a cross. Just as Christ refrained from being cross with His apostles for abandoning Him to this fate, so to does He refrain from being cross with us for condemning Him to it. Jesus has forgiven me for my share in His sufferings. Just a realization that I just had that relates to the subject of the thread, and a really awesome feeling when it really hits home.

>>802074

>2. God creates all things, so whatever fantastical constructs that that cosmologists create (and they are fantastical and awe-inspiring) God creates that too.

If scientists make conclusions that are contrary to divine revelation, we cannot play double-think and recognize both.

>As a point of interest, the Big Bang theory was proposed by an RC priest named Lemaître. It was the first scientific confirmation that the Genesis account was right in stating that the universe had a definite beginning (up till that point, scientists had assumed the universe itself was eternal). So I don’t think this is a debate worth having, at least not in this moment.

Catholic priest leads the way to a denial of the faith, how surprising.

The Bible does say the universe has a beginning, but it refutes the claim that all of matter was contained in a singularity which exploded and spread out, and that this happened billions of years ago.

>>802076

Yes, Satan/Lucifer/the devil is good by nature, like all things which God made. What does that have to do with what was said?

>>802107

>black holes and galaxy superclusters don't exist

Brainlet luddite get out.

>>802070

Big Bang Theory was made by a priest and all the other gay scientists at the time for super butthurt about it.

On a side note, does the nominal Christian Facebook approach to adversity "thoughts and prayers" is the modern equivalent of James 2:16 "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,"?

>>802047

>No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out, and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved. Matt. 9:16–17

Is our universe in the shape of a wineskin with heaven at the top and earth on the bottom? As in it's set in bondage to decay, and was destroyed by the flood, which was the new wine poured into this old world? As for those destroyed by the flood, was the waters of the flood turned into layers of bedrock? The parable is about the renewal on the individual within Christ, but can it also refer to the old and new heaven and earth?

>>802287

I'm not a Protestant. I'm Orthodox.

>We are Christians, and as Christians we like to obsess over minutiae, but do we ever pause to meditate on the literal truth of Christianity?

The literal truth of Christianity is found in the divine revelation. Denying it is denying the faith.

>Does any Orthobro have an answer for this

>>802095

Sin does not "exist". It has no "existence" by itself. Sin is "missing the mark", it is a failure to remain in a good relationship with God and to fulfill one's nature. Sin and evil are "parasitic", so to speak, they do not have an essence.

Whether sin is found in angels or men, it is not created by God, but introduced by His creatures which have free will.

>>802287

Very subtle

>time and basically all of perception is relative to the observer (Genesis is according to God’s holy perspective, not man’s perspective)

But what is spoken is spoken and it is that the curse of Adam brings death and is not the means by which man "attained" sentience. There was no death before the fall and you are using carefully constructed theological posts very dangerously.

Man was created and life was breathed into him, he is not the product of a billion years of death, in total denial of the curse which Christ died to cover

If you are simply speculating into means and such without dabbling in the damning pseudo-science of evolutionary biology then be more careful with your posts

The big bang is a falsehood spread by jews, read Genesis, read Job. This post is trash, some retarded evangelical probably