/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>791969

Simple mistake and I realize most people here are aware of him but, I forgot to actually name him so for those who are not aware.

This is Jay Dyer, a member of laity who's fairly passionate about Christian theology and often debates others on his YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/jaydyer

>>791969

>what's the problem with him

I'm sure he has a good heart, but unfortunately he comes off as prideful. It doesn't help he is also a schismatic.

>>791969

/christian/'s problem with him is the same problem this board has with everyone else: he's not Catholic.

Case in point: >>791976

>>791969

He's a vainglorious faggot

>>791984

>one anon represents all of the board

Stop trying to flatter me.

>>791984

Oof.

Orthodox here. I like him, but sometimes he comes off as full of himself. I like his channel though and I learned a lot from it.

>>792030

My exact thoughts as a Cathodox inquirer basically.

>>791969

He's an arrogant fool, and his followers are even more arrogant and foolish

Protodox here, he's based.

He causes the western papist to stand there all naked and humiliated and that's even more based, plus quite necessary.

>>792074

>Protodox

Excuse me?

>>792075

Must be another term for LARPodox

>>791969

I only like him when he debates atheists and humiliates them, which he does quite often. I don't much care for anything else he does, thought he does seem like a cool guy.

>>792074

>protodox

the absolute state of larpers.muh latins amirite? The reddit spacing says much.

I like him for validating my own conclusions about the occult roots of American culture and western modernity.

He's building a cult of personality surrounding himself. He's a victim of deracination/atomization; the same malaise that gave us LARPaganism, white Buddhists, NEETSocs, etc. Something to identify yourself with - the newest wrinkle, a sub-culture that sets you apart from the hoi polloi. You can saliently see this with people that use the Internet too much, they waft from esoteric interest to interest (or, pseudo-hobby to pseudo-hobby), and when they find a new interest, they identify completely with it, their lives revolve around it, they tell everyone (in their small, insular, online) social circle about it, and then they move on to the next (recondite) interest, forgetting what their last obsession even was. Their knowledege of their fascination indicates genius/heroic mental endurance (or both), but knowlege exhibited by people with other interests are easily learned, and furthermore, useless. Once his shallow sense of mastery is satisfied he ceases to progress because really participating in the interest bores him (as we glean from the lack of charity Jay has, and, (allegedly) how he only was recieved into the Orthodox Church very recently). He will pettifog and kibitz with anyone that disagrees, because he's eager to prove his interest (which has become his entire identity) objectively correct. Since becoming Orthodox Christian, he drank the kool-aid about "Moscow Third Rome" "Holy Russia" "Orthodox Imperium" "Ukraine false nation created by the West" - which is part and parcel of the LARPerdox caricature. It's Christianity without Christ.

https://triablogue.blogspot.com/2008/06/other-side-of-tracks.html

>For Dyer, the true church is just around the corner. And he keeps rediscovering the true church around every street corner as he walks around the block, from the one true church to the other one true church to the next one true church to the last one true church. It must be a bit a disorienting to be so dogmatic and vacillating at the same time.

God bless Jay Dyer

Butthurt Catholics will always be mad, dude has spent 10 years of his life studying Catholic doctrine, got the winnie the pooh out. Happy I don't have to waste that time in a heretical church because of him.

>>793824

He was a sedevacantist, nobody can take his time as a Catholic or a Thomist seriously - or shouldn't, unless you want easy rhetoric.

>>793898

Of course, there is no other Vicar.

>>793835

So if God isn't purely actual, who's causing things to happen in the universe right now? Palamitism is basically atheism when you look at its logical conclusion.

>>793924

Uh well we know entropy is increasing constantly, so maybe God just gave the initial push to the whole system and then let physical laws take over from there? You’re pretty quick to insist that some totally irrelevant minor theological point is atheism.

60acad:"Palamitism is basically atheism when you look at it's logical conclusion."

Jay:"Thomism and absolute divine simplicity ultimately lead to atheism."

It's two sides of the same bloody coin and the coin is probably a forgery that was dropped in dog crap.

>>793962

>pagans are getting triggered as well

Dude, source.

>>793970

He recently had a debate with a pagan (boglord)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLlGNihWIJ4

He also got flack from the vegan community for a bit, he tried to debate Vegan Gains but it turned to ab absolute comedic shit-show. Jay kept trying to question their metaphysical foundations for ethics and the vegans wouldn't let him they just wanted to assume some vague notion of "right and wrong" and that "logic is always operative". It was hard to watch, the vegans were really stupid, but the ending was worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtXu2jI74tg

>>793962

Theory:

Catholics are triggered because he uses the same line of reasoning to argue against their position. (Arguing from authority)

Protestants are oblivious because our first principles are all rooted in biblical exposition above any historical argument.

>>793974

>the bible is the first principle for prots

Christ is the first principle for all early and apostolic Christians.

>the bible is not a historical document

Where is the divinely inspired table of contents?

I don’t know him, quick rundown without too much bias on either sides?

>>793980

He's an Orthodox boomer with a passion for theology and debating the latter of which earns most attention, he's surprisingly well read usually.

>>793985

Oooh, that’s why he “triggers “ most people here…eh, I am not sure if I would like his stuff, but I don’t think he would trigger me.

>>793990

Think this is also worht mentioning btw.

He was also I think a Calvinist first, quickly abandoned that, then spent about 10 years as Roman Catholic during which he actively studied theology from both professional and private sources only to end up then converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

>>793996

No. He was a calvinist -> catholic -> sedevacanist -> eastern orthodox -> eastern catholic as of 2008,

in 2019 now he's eastern orthodox (again)

>>793997

That's not what I remember from his journey to Orthodoxy video at all but sure, I watched it a while ago.

>>793998

Too based for the board.

>>793998

Only Peter had the keys and the promise.

>>793924

>Palamitism is basically atheism when you look at its logical conclusion.

That's funny because Palamas argues that ADS will lead to atheism as its logical conclusion which is exactly where the West went.

>>794003

Peter wasn't some cartoonish God Emperor. In a council in Jerusalem he had no word and respected the other speakers, as a fellow patriarch must do. "Muh keys"

This video elaborates

>>794025

>Peter wasn't some cartoonish God Emperor.

Neither isn't the Pope. Cephas alone was given the Keys and the promise, you cannot read anything else into Christ's words.

> In a council in Jerusalem he had no word and respected the other speakers, as a fellow patriarch must do.

Because he was shown his error and agreed. If "keys" mean nothing to you, then Christ's promise also means nothing to you. The promise wasn't given to the other Apostles.

>>794030

>Neither is*

Regardless of Jay's theological arguments, his attitude and approach is highly uncharitable.

For all the flak his gives Barlaam of Calabria, his acts almost the same way.

Evidently Barlaam was highly intelligent, but also arrogant, acerbic, sarcastic, and overall unpleasant to be around.

If Jay actually wants to follow Christ, it would do well of him to tone down the attitude. Otherwise, he'll just be a Palamite Barlaam.

>>794024

You could say that the Christian east was also subject to atheisim but unlike the West it wasn't an organic development but rather a direct import from the West.

>>794042

Which is reaching, you then accuse the West of the sins of others. If the East fell into atheism, then the East is responsible for it. They could have resisted but did not.

>>794045

Also, to be frank, if the East continues to just pass the buck like Dyer suggests, I don't see any way how the East would even be able to shrug off atheism or nihilism or communism or anything else anti-Christian by just pointing fingers. If the West is truly dying or was anti-Christ from the start, why not just move East?

>>794039

It's becoming more and more evident that Dyer is a stumbling block for the American Orthodox.

He's definitely importing the Sedevacanist/Calvinist attitude.

>>794024

Catholicism still believes in God and never supported atheism i don't see how you can blame them for the sins of others that would be fallacious. it would be like blaming orthodoxy for creating catholicism but that would be even less obtuse.

>>793978

funnily enough Vegan Gains was the voice of reason in that debate (atleast on the vegans side of course).

>>794039

I can't disagree with this. I hate calling him out in public like this, but then.. he broadcasts publicly and probably views himself as fair game anyhow. I think he could still be very helpful, but yes, he could chill a bit. And at the very least, rejoice that some people believe in Christ at all (even if they're not Orthodox). Maybe I'm not spoiled with Christians everywhere, but I don't like brushing them aside. I see a brother or sister even if we don't always agree. I could have much worse company than this, unfortunately. The Christian life is usually a lonely one, so we should rejoice at what little fellowship we have.

>>793997

>eastern catholic as of 2008,

>in 2019 now he's eastern orthodox (again)

He was Eastern Orthodox at least since 2010:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGfIDlJ_V4I

>>794799

What made him switch back?