/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/the-river-of-fire-kalomiros/

Hell is the main construct that keeps the majority of believers of Christianity and Islam in particular in check. The designers of all three Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam were very clever and had thorough understanding of human psychology.

In order to make their belief system as airtight as possible one of the concepts they created was the concept of "hell" to basically discourage people from leaving the faith or behaving contrary to its guidelines. Out of the three Abrahamic religions the one that is most intelligently put together is Islam, but all three are highly sophisticated religions.

In Judaism the concept of hell is not as explicitly defined, but it does still exist.

Basically long story short. Hell serves as the main thing keeping people in check in the belief system. Kids are taught about hell and eternal suffering from day 1 during indoctrination, and therefore it is very hard to later leave the faith (because they fear hell).

>>791610

It's simple really. In the future (as foretold) the world will be so corrupt and full of wicked people that God will do a great cleansing and cast the devil and his angels into the oven, along with all those who choose to listen to him instead of God. Since God is so merciful and unironically loves (You) and all of humanity, He offers an escape from this fate by letting you cleanse your sins beforehand through the sacraments and letting you live eternally with God in heaven long after the material world has gone.

There's a little more to it but that's the quick rundown. Open up your bible to get the long answer.

>>791636

>>791638

I wish god would justify himself in one sentence

>>791639

"I AM THE I AM" - God

>>791639

> In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

>>791636

Consequences to your actions don't really exist, man! That's just a fiction written up to keep you DOWN. You can do anything and everything you want and they're all equally beneficial to yourself and everyone else!

Satire aside, even on a secular level anyone who isn't a total sperg recognizes that the Bible is metaphorically completely true. If you sin you hurt your psychological wellbeing and live in a state of "hell" so to speak. The people who wrote the these religious texts are leagues more intelligent than who we have to work with today. It's too up you whether you want to take the leap of faith and believe in it literally or not.

>>791610

>But the Bible forbids this..

It doesn't. Some of our (manmade) theology does, and that isn't the same thing. It was snuffed out by Justinian first. Even the Pope in his day wasn't willing to ostracize all of the universalists who were in the Church at that point. Christians before this time occasionally entertained reincarnation, without being persecuted. Jesus himself hinted that John the Baptist was Elijah as well. And all who deny these plain words are simply suffering from cognitive dissonance and provide weak answers when trying to rationalize out of it. They are sadly not who Jesus addressed when he said "And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." These people are not the ones "willing to accept it" and do not have ears to hear. I can only hope they eventually change (And it's OK if they don't anytime soon. It's not a matter of great importance. Nor was it when Jesus said that. He merely pointed out that some aren't ready to hear it).

Also, when his disciples asked him the question about the man born blind, they asked "Who sinned? This man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus didn't even flinch and correct them about their assumption there - because it was also a thought to some Jews then. And still is. Ask an Orthodox Jew - many have beliefs about reincarnation (and not all are kabbalists.. Kabbalism builds on an older belief first). Other scriptures indicate that John came in the spirit and power of Elijah - which is the key. Spirit of Elijah. Elsewhere, the Bible makes a distinction between Soul and Spirit and Body. We are tripartite beings. For some reason, this teaching of the Church is largely ignored, but it will help make more sense out of what I say here… as Christian rebirth is not the same idea of "Buddhist" reincarnation. Only Christianity once taught this tripartite makeup, but now it teaches the same thing as all of these other religions. That we are merely bodies and souls. And this paradigm is what makes reincarnation particularly uncomfortable.

You can all call me a heretic if you like, but it won't a make difference. It's true whether you like it or not, and you'll find out, just as I have. There's a reason why I'm absolutely confident about it. And perhaps once you find this out, you'll realize the depth of God's patience and love. When we project impatience and ruthlessness on to God, we start easily excusing it when we do it to our fellow man. And that's the greatest tragedy of all. Only by realizing God's love can you finally give your fellow man a break too. You'll also understand that even the punishments for some of the worst of us have their limits in most cases. God's love is great even for some that we ourselves would rather burn for eternity. "Amen I say to you, you shall by no means get out of there, until. you have paid the last penny." Catholics were right for realizing there was a state of purging for some (but went overboard in constructing a Dante like realm called "purgatory", rather than a pending state), but it's tied up in all of what I've said above. He who has ears to ear, let him ear. ;)

>>791621

Well don't post shitty memes that make Satan out to be some reasonable being. It makes it look like you've come here in bad faith.

>>791639

So do I.

I think you mistook my post for being pro-religion or pro-god.

It is not.

I was merely pointing out the rationale behind the concept of hell (i.e. why these religions invented hell). Which is basically to keep their followers scared and obedient.

>>791660

I am not pro-Islam, I was merely pointing out how it is more sophisticated than both Christianity and Judaism, due to the fact that it came several hundred years later.

So the people who put together the religion of Islam made some "corrections" and tightened up loose ends of the other religions.

That is why Islam is a much more effective and aggressive ideology.

For what it's worth I think they are all shit.

>>791601

God doesn't put you in hell, you put you in hell, and it's perfectly logical why disbelieving in Him results in hell. Though Christianity can make some fearful bigots, unbelief tends to create people who lack humility and don't hesitate to cut corners morally speaking, after all, if no-one is watching, why not behave badly? And then there are the rich, who imagine moral problems can always be solved by writing cheques.

So there are plenty of hell-deserving people, and even Christians deserve hell, but we believe that honestly confessing your sins is the way out of perdition.

How many people in hell? Depends on who you ask, but I wouldn't go so far as to presume that everyone gets to heaven eventually.

>>791636

>all three Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam

>Abrahamic religions

Your indoctrination is showing.

The Jews who have remained Jews have rejected the covenant of Abraham, thus Judaism as it exists in the present day is not Abrahamic.

Islam is a fan fiction written by a man nearly 1,300 years removed from one of Abraham's bastard sons, and it is therefore not of Abraham.

>>791695

>For what it's worth I think they are all shit.

Even if christianity was false, it would still be 10000 times better than ath*ism, it is the only religion that can move society further, else you'll have a weak society full of sodomites. The only reasonable stance an atheist can take is: "atheism is true but faith in christianity must be maintened and protected at all costs" else you're either a fool or destructor of civilization and a traitor, like all evangelist atheists.

You could just read the Wiki article you lazy retard. Oh wait:

>To me the concept…

To you? Who are you? What makes you so capable and special that, instead of doing your own work and reading the Scriptures—or, apparently, just doing some quick Googling—you deserve to be spoonfed metaphysics like some royal child?

Grow up.

Hell is eternal separation from God. Whether or not there is really a lake of fire or you're just going to be stabbed to death by demon pitch forks can he debated for centuries but the true suffering is that the God who offered to save you from suffering and sin all your life is now forever gone because you ignored His love all your life. You put all your treasures on Earth only to find out it all was for nothing once you die.

I don't truly know the propotion between people in Hell and people in Heaven, none of us do. I like to be optimistic and say Hell's population is overall less but who knows?

>>791882

Looks like somebody had a bad day 😭 Act like a real Christian instead of trying to bring this board down with you. I apologize Op on behalf of this anon’s behavior

>>791601

>And would God create a world where he would, seemingly, destine a large portion of humans to hell?

yes.

>I can't help but think the God of the people is evil. Why create humans in a way where the majority will just suffer for an eternity?

No one is trapped with a sentence of eternal damnation that they can't escape. If you go to hell you do so because you chose to. If you ever gain an awareness of how evil the world really is then you'll stop viewing eternal damnation as unjust.

>>792791

>Hell is eternal separation from God.

No there is no escaping God nor is there any peace for the wicked. This is right up there with annihilationism in terms of how unbiblical it is. It's an ideal in the minds of revolters, but it's not true.

Psalm 139:8

>If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

>>791601

The clear teaching of the Bible is this:

All people will know God through obvious and direct observation of things around them. They have no excuses.

Salvation is a FREE gift, given by God to all. However, one must receive this gift through faith, by FREE WILL.

So, avoiding Hell is actually really easy, provided you are humble enough to actually accept God's own sacrifice for you.

Most people are not going to be humble enough to accept God. They are actually that evil that they reject an obvious, free gift.

>>793185

Separation of God may also be understood as attempted selfseparation (old idiom about "doors of hell are locked from inside") too, which doesn't contradict what you have said.

>>791601

Check out Bill Weise's testimony of what Hell is. A long watch but well worth it in my opinion. Hell is basically complete separation from good except for his wrath poured out in flames.

https://youtu.be/AYxKRoONrfY

>>791601

The afterlife is the end result of your decision to either form a relationship with Christ or to not.

Hell is only the complete and utter absence of God, just as it's opposite, Heaven would be the complete and utter immersion of God.

Such a "place" as hell may not even exist as we understand it. It may even be the void, just like the Atheists assume the after-death to be; a self-fulfilling belief. An adherence to their decision to be seperate from Christ on Earth.

All we know for certain is that for followers of God, the absence of Him would be certainly be comparable to "eternal torment".

A lot of misunderstanding about Hell comes first from a misunderstanding about Heaven. It is necessary, then, to explain Heaven in it's actual Biblical and Traditional description; Heaven is not "a good place." There will not be beer and twinkies in Heaven. There will be God.

Now, to a Christian, this is wonderful news. We are called to give up to passions of the flesh in order to seek God; why would it bother us if nothing worldly was in Heaven, so long as God is? However, odds are that if you're not a Christian, the idea of an eternity-long worship service sounds… pretty boring to you. Probably not what you'd like to do all your eternity. Probably, I would even say, sounds like hell to you.

So, a loving God isn't gonna force you to go to Heaven, where you'll be miserable. Instead, He, in His mercy and love, let's you go somewhere else. Unfortunately, there is only one somewhere else (+purgatory, if you're not Prot).

Hell, then, isn't "a bad place." It's merely a place where people who want nothing to do with God go. Then, because all good things come from God, good things in Hell become scarce/non-existant, and then Hell itself becomes a hell as we traditionally think of it, and then those without God become bitter, hate, and sin more, and Hell gets a little bit worse, and so on and so on for eternity.

It isn't that God punishes people for not being near Him. He makes sure they wouldn't go to Heaven, where they'd be miserable forever. Hell is just the only alternative for these people, and the actions of both these wayward souls and the demons make Hell into an awful place.

I think a good explanation of what Hell is can be found on the Summa Theologiae on the Supplementum Tertiae Partis (link here: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5.htm). On questions 97 and 98, Saint Thomas Aquinas discuss the fate of the damned souls. Some of the discussion pertains how they will be after the ressurrection. Nevertheless, it can give you a very good idea of what Hell is supposed to be.

A few noteworthy points is that souls in Hell are unable to will anything good by themselves. Their thoughts only turn to God by bemoaning their own fate and any kind of love they might have held for the living is lost. Any kind of pleasure or gladness they would have been able to derive from knowledge is gone. Whereas a mathematician might have wondered and enjoyed understanding and thinking about math, any such pleasure would be gone from him if he went to hell. I suppose this may well apply to things that aren't directly knowledge, so even music would fail to elicit any pleasure in hell.

Another aspect is that there is a fire in hell, and that fire acts as a prison and a punishment for the souls there, even in their current immaterial state. The current punishment by fire and the future punishment by all elements show that hell is not a passive penalty, where people simply bemoan the loss of God, but rather an active punishment for all the sins we commit.

hell is being duped by jewish magic and separated from God forever.

>>793965

>Thomas Aquinas

Post automatically discarded

Hades for the here and now is a place of being and a state of mind, it is created by the free will of the person and not God. It is dark, and people who even after the coming of Christ return from it mellow and shaken from it.

Christ taught the gospel in Hades, and many souls entered heaven afterwards. However, even then many rejected Christ. Christ went to the Bosom of Abraham to help the OT Prophets come back to the lower heaven.

Gehenna is the boiling pit, the lake of fire. After judgement the wicked souls will be sent there for eternity to relinquish from their sins. After you have sinned, and you feel that burning sadness in your heart. That is the first taste of Gehenna.

>>793991

why?

>>792806

>😭

The absolute state of this board.

Not my original thoughts, but you might find the Catholic Encyclopedia article an interesting read.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

>>793185

>Psalm 139:8

Stop confusing sheol/hades with gehenna

>>795634

Mark 9:43

>And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

https://www.ecatholic2000.com/hell/hell.shtml

Good thing to listen to, good thing to read.

>>794329

I don’t want to be harsh, but if someone’s acting foolish, I want to put them in their place

>>795646

How is that relevant to my post or the one I was responding to?

>>796379

JW and 7DA should frick off from this board

>>796386

>JW and 7DA should frick off from this board

I'm neither. Propose arguments against my comment instead of trying to ban me.

>>796134

Both about hell.

>>796599

That doesn't mean it's relevant..

>>793241

i've seen this before and cant help but feel that he's making shit up for publicity