/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Why would you need a book to learn the Jesus prayer when it's literally just:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

If you can memorize that simple phrase you've learned it, haven't you?

In the Coptic Church, we simply say "Kyrie Eleison!" but it carries the same weight. We say it 41 times multiple times during our Liturgies. Yet Father Lazarus says the longer version is good too.

>>789615

A prayer is more than just about the sum of its words. It's use, meaning, and the mindset of the person praying also matter. The Pilgrim story is useful because it details a Christian's spiritual journey to achieve unceasing prayer, not because it teaches anyone how to memorize it.

It's a terrible introduction to prayer and shows how absolutely empty and shallow the eastern spirituality is

http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/index.php

read part 2 on prayer or listen to the video if you want a look at what a deep tradition looks like

>>789660

using the discipline is good to do with proper direction, it's not mutilation though that has a specific definition

>>789662

>it's not mutilation though

And what do you call what the Romans did to Jesus?

Discipline means picking up our cross and suffering as the Lord did.

>>789664

Oh yeah I forgot to say, while jesus prayer was big in the east the most common one in the west was

Incline unto my aid O God, O Lord make haste to help me

I know some monastaries had it in their rule that was the only prayer you were allowed to say in the restroom

>>789654

I'm the op who discovered the jesus prayer and i'm catholic

>>789583

I practice it, if you do it diligently with attention for the whole of your day, righteous flows from you, love of people and God increases, and so on. The problem comes when you have Satan trying to steal it from you, but that's okay, keep going.

>>789667

>>789668

we have our own traditions that are better, listen to this talk and read our saints instead of schismatics, like there is no reason you should have read that before Introduction to the Devout life by St. Francis de sales or something I linked it above.

Video series below is a great short series going over all the aspects of the spiritual life, with some reading recommendations.

Sorry for being so harsh, in the lecture I linked he acutally talks about being dissapointed seeing so many modern Catholics going for the jesus prayer when they don't even know what ejaculatory prayer is or the west using Incline unto my aid o God , O lord make haste to help me for 1700 years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysdgHuvavZo&list=PLnftOVqh-jlbF2ndbBaI0kbRNqVIC-qqB

http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/index.php

the section on prayer goes over everything as well

if you want to read something more modern

https://www.amazon.com/Conversation-Christ-Teaching-Teresa-Personal/dp/0895551802

Like I said above, if you acutally read into mental prayer and the way the saints prayed, the eastern stuff just looks silly in comparison.

>>789670

Look at all the mental gymnastics Catholics have to do to renounce one of the oldest practices of the church. Augustine and Aquinas have led you guys very astray.

>>789673

I didn't actually say it was bad in itself done properly, I said we did it, many similar things like it, with a much richer tradition with a much greater of variety and depth of prayer.

It is bad done in the style of oriental meditation where you try to quiet your mind that lot though, that's not christian and has some problems that I dont really care to get into.

Catholic spirituality is so obviously and overwhelmingly superior in every way to goofy eastern stuff anyone who actually puts the time into actually read into it won't need arguments because it's just self-evident.

Just listen to the embed

>>789677

The EO responses to it are hilarious as well they just cry prelest and say our saints went mentally insane

Imagine reading this and thinking it is prideful (what some influential EO saints have said)

I will speak to my Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. If I consider myself anything more than this, behold You stand against me, and my sins bear witness to the truth which I cannot contradict. If I abase myself, however, if I humble myself to nothingness, if I shrink from all self-esteem and account myself as the dust which I am, Your grace will favor me, Your light will enshroud my heart, and all self-esteem, no matter how little, will sink in the depths of my nothingness to perish forever.

It is there You show me to myself – what I am, what I have been, and what I am coming to; for I am nothing and I did not know it. Left to myself, I am nothing but total weakness. But if You look upon me for an instant, I am at once made strong and filled with new joy. Great wonder it is that I, who of my own weight always sink to the depths, am so suddenly lifted up, and so graciously embraced by You.

It is Your love that does this, graciously upholding me, supporting me in so many necessities, guarding me from so many grave dangers, and snatching me, as I may truly say, from evils without number. Indeed, by loving myself badly I lost myself; by seeking only You and by truly loving You I have found both myself and You, and by that love I have reduced myself more profoundly to nothing. For You, O sweetest Lord, deal with me above all my merits and above all that I dare to hope or ask.

May You be blessed, my God, for although I am unworthy of any benefits, yet Your nobility and infinite goodness never cease to do good even for those who are ungrateful and far from You. Convert us to You, that we may be thankful, humble, and devout, for You are our salvation, our courage, and our strength.

Guys, we don’t need to be rude to the Orthobros. The Jesus Prayer is a nice prayer and does good things, let’s focus on that. I didn’t know about the Catholic version, so I did learn something from this thread, but without being cucky, it’s totally possible to be ecumenical and brotherly to our brothers in Christ, let’s try and practice that. I’ve gotten awesome stuff from Orthobros and I appreciate their insights.

t. Embarrassed Catholic

>>789679

The way they teach it is specifically contrary and against Catholic spirituality, like I said the fact you read some weird schismatic work while being totally ignorant of the actual Catholic tradition says enough. When you look into it you'll see how what I mean, how full it is in comparison, and possibly why in my weakness i'm going so over the top in defense of it.

I'll just throw this in from St. Irenaeus

He shall also judge those who give rise to schisms, who are destitute of the love of God, and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the Church; and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, [positively] destroy it — men who prate of peace while they give rise to war, and do in truth strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel. Matthew 23:24 For no reformation of so great importance can be effected by them, as will compensate for the mischief arising from their schism. He shall also judge all those who are beyond the pale of the truth, that is, who are outside the Church; but he himself shall be judged by no one.

And I'd recommend you read this as well

https://thejosias.com/2015/07/22/on-the-utility-and-necessity-of-prohibiting-harmful-books/

You as a Catholic and especially as one who isn't strongly founded shouldn't be reading books by schismatics/heretics, it simply isn't safe.

>>789677

>Catholic spirituality is so obviously and overwhelmingly superior in every way to goofy eastern stuff

The only thing that suggests, is that you don't know very much about Orthodox teachings, and it's embarrassing that you insist so strongly on something so petty.

>>789678

You also seem to understand very little about the EOC. Where do you think you guys got those sorts of teachings from? They've got a heavily Augustinian flavor to them, sure, but if you think humility is something unique to the Roman church, you need to study up on the Desert Fathers and church history in general.

>>789679

Don't feel bad, it's not your fault. This is just what always happens to us on this board. It's filled with angsty Catholics insecure about their faith (who can blame them?), so they lash out at Orthodox and Protestants alike to make themselves feel better.

>>789682

> so strongly on something so petty.

>spirituality is petty

alrighty you have fun with that

>>789678

How is parroting "muh tradition is much richer than yours unlike ours your spirituality is nothing, I have the superior prayer!!!" for entire paragraphs not prideful?

You take great pride in your falsely perceived superiority and only you yourself could be blind to this fact of life, you lash out at others out of your pride while knowing nothing of those who you attack.

I feel sick to the stomach when I read your loaded posts just rambling on about your "superiority" and righteousness while showing the exact opposite of that, truly disgusting.

>>789682

Well, I do feel bad, because I have gotten some awesome insights from Orthobros, specifically a guy helped me get over my hesitation to pray by reminding me that demons hate prayer(I don’t know if that’s from a specific Orthodox thing he read, but it’s applicable to all Christians and 100% solid advice). It’s a pity too because the guy wrecking this thread seems extremely online and he should probably be talking to his priest if he’s being this awful to other Christians. I’m not saying you should agree with stuff that you find heretical, but especially during Lent you should be focusing on the log in your own spiritual eye and try and not be such a dick to people who agree with you on like 95% of things. Log off and talk to your priest angry guy. He

And then Catholics on this board wonder why Baptists and Orthodox won't stop shitting on them…

Maybe speak with more charity, knowing that the board is called /christian/ and not /sensusfidelum/… You're not alone here in identifying closely with your religion. Pick your words more carefully when you want to criticise other confessions of faith.

>>789681

>He shall also judge those who give rise to schisms, who are destitute of the love of God, and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the Church; and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, [positively] destroy it — men who prate of peace while they give rise to war, and do in truth strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel.

Oh, the ironing, it’s like pottery, I almost feel like I’m being bamboozled, but sadly, I doubt that I am. Talk to your priest anon. Cultivate a heart of charity to go along with your knowledge of scripture. I’m just a neophyte convert to Catholicism, and I take heresy seriously, but you have to balance your faith out a bit, when was the last time you prayed for someone you saw in need? A quick Hail Mary for that homeless guy you just saw? Stuff like that, remember how generous Christ was/is with His love. The Church should be an instrument to get you closer to Christ, not to become an idol.

>>789683

You truly are a master of charitable interpretations. Bless your heart.

>>789688

>the board is called /christian/ and not /sensusfidelum/

I'm starting to think Fr. Ripperger is the Catholic Jay Dyer/Steven Anderson.

>>789688

Implying that poster isn't just a Protestant false flagging trying to make Catholics look bad

>the silly Catholic screeching about how bad Eastern traditions are doesn't realize his Church also uses every single one of them through the Eastern Catholic Churches

This is exactly why Latinization is so bad, it leads to people actually thinking only the Latin way is the proper way, an absurdity that flies in the face of Christian tradition.

I love the rosary and Jesus prayer

t. Orthodox

Matthew 6:6-8

>But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

>But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Remember not to use vain repetitions, anon.

Eternal Latin here. I've been praying the Jesus prayer for about 4 or 5 years now. It's a nice little prayer, I don't see why it's causing so much butthurt. There's certainly no heresy in the words themselves. I don't think it's as powerful as the Rosary, but it's good to have a prayer I can easily blurt out whenever the urge strikes me. For all the problems the Eastern Church has, the Jesus prayer is not one of them.

>>790090

The Jesus prayer isn't vain repetitions

>>790167

Just remember not to do them.

>>789666

>1 Corinthians 6:19

>>790173

<don't pray to Jesus

Sure, prot, whatever you say.

Learn some greek bud, it'll be food for you.

>>789677

Jesus prayer is the catechism

>>790300

*is in the catechism

>>789810

I love the rosary and Jesus prayer

t. catholic

>>790090

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

16 Always rejoice.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all.

Pray without ceasing.