/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

It's the only real Christian way to live in my opinion. Protestants are full of s hit hence why they condemn this practice and look at where there are now lol. They just love to world too much. I don't care if it's unbiblical, it's either God or something in-between.

It started early on in Christian history,

>How did it come about?

Ancient Christians getting fed up with the sins of society and heading out into the wilderness to live as hermits. Modern monasticism is built off the lifestyle of those ancient aesetics.

They might leave ==society== behind, but they spend their entire day praying for everyone in the world and that they may come to know Christ. Some even say that it is by their prayers that the world hasn't destroyed itself yet. Whether or not you believe that you can surely agree that prayer on behalf of others is extremely powerful and necessary.

>>780780

Yeah ok you hedonistic filth. Out of all the world religions Protestants have garbage tier metaphysics if any at all and dumb traditions too. Keep rationalizing your materialistic wants about having a wife and loving the world.

>>780768

I'd say its good in the same way that celibacy is good; if a man does not marry he can stay focused on the Lord and living as he commanded, but most people are not called to such a life.

The same applies to monasticism, some people simply are called to live away from modern degeneracy, I can only imagine what Monastics from 1000 years ago would think if they were alive today, they'd probably faint.

>>780768

The West began to decline when Christianity lost its monastic tradition.

>>780782

I'm not the one rationalizing here bro, look in a mirror sometime.

>>780768

That's not the life for me, personally I can't fulfill my goals without interacting with the outside world. I can't live my life in silence. I can go as far as saying that silence will depress me out. God wants me to speak out and help the world unite.

>>780784

I'm tired of people who say that degeneracy can only be modern. The barbarians were far more degenerate than we modern people could ever imagine. I don't think we are called to be misanthropes.

>>780788

yeah quote me

>>780793

Lol bullshit. There weren't as much drugs and technology back then. No, don't ask what people do just to feel good.

>>780805

>It should be biblical

Pilpul all you want. All communist,feminist and postmodernist argue like this. Protestants are to blame for the modern world we live in today.

>>780811

I guess you're conceding that that was rationalizing huh

>>780772

Why are you trying to turn this into another denominational shit-flinging thread right off the bat? You do realize that there are Lutheran and Anglican monestaries right?

>>780814

Anything but rationalization

>>780815

Throwing one of the most important practices out of the window because you love coochie too much deserves flaming in my book.

>>780817

Oh I see, you're shitposting. Carry on.

>>780768

Maybe this can help answer your question, I just assumed that monasticism is good because the object of Christianity is to be withdrawn from the world. The choice being in how far you take it, which depends only on whether you are willing to do such a supererogatory work.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-asceticism-monasticism.html

>>780768

>How did it come about

>>780776

>is there basis for it in the scripture

plenty

>Is it ultimately a good practice, if yes, then why?

it has a 1700 years history (as an organized practise, Christian hermits existed already before then), nothing bad has ever come out of it, quite the contrary

>We're time and time again called to action to preach be active, help others, spread the word, lead by example for unbelievers and celebrate Christ together with fellow Christians

monks do all the above and in a pretty way than most of today's Christians

>some even go as far as saying one can't be a Christian for long if he is secluded from the world

the world as in worldly concerns to put it briefly, not as in the creation or life

>>780817

Says the non-monastic.

>>780826

>Some monastics seem to venture on cult-esque mentalities when it comes to absolute obedience towards spiritual "fathers" (Symeon the New Theologian and some of the Desert Fathers were bad in this regard, almost worshiping their spiritual fathers) which seems in direct contradiction to Christ's teaching of equality (Matthew 23:9) and not serving two masters (Matthew 6:24).

You probably know more than me, but maybe you're jumping the gun. Monastics and ascetics who follow everything their spiritual father says have discovered that the profit in obedience is not so much to do with anything you are supposed to do, but merely that you suffer it in a Christ-like way.

>>780834

Symeon wrote that he revered his spiritual father as if he was a co-creator. The Desert Fathers speak of being in awe at their masters as if they were divine.

If the point is to learn humility by suffering under another, this can accomplished with almost any leader, such as a biological father or a king or a employer. If the point is gain spiritual knowledge, then there is no need to venerate the person above you as if they are divine themselves, since they are merely another mortal teaching you something.

When I read a book that I learn something from, I do not revere the author, I am simply glad that God has given me knowledge through this outlet. Knowledge and Wisdom comes from God, not men; to ascribe this to men ventures on heresy.

This is one of the things I really harbor a great deal of trouble with in regards to monasticism; humility does not mean doing the will of one who does not deserve to have his will enacted, it means not viewing oneself as greater than anyone because arrogance is a destructive thing. I understand the purpose, the problem lies in the practice; only God can guide a man, to serve two masters is to be a fool for the temporal master's sake, and the expense of the eternal. I'll work for many, but I only truly serve One.

1) Monastics started because they felt society wasn't living up to the early church that was full of martyrs, once the church became legalized. So they found a way of denying themselves in new way, while still living

2) The "Great Commision" excuse is a bit silly.. these people became so legendary that the world learned about them anyways, and were inspired to take up some of their devotion. Why do you think we even know about them 1500 years later? It was outsiders who told us of them. They're so well known to this day that lay people buy books of the monastics. If you live a strong enough life in Christ, you couldn't stop the light from shining even if you tried.

3) Catholic and Orthodox are still the largest body of Jesus' followers, across a wide swathe of the globe and multiple cultures. So it's not like one can say they're slacking off on spreading the gospel.

>>780768

>is there basis for it in the scripture?

John the Baptist?

>>780772

if Catholics aren’t following an order directly from the Bible, and Prots are, then that means that we Prots are in there right here

>>780838

Thanks, I'm rather ignorant of the desert fathers and what they did. As I said Monasticism just sounds good to me as an extreme form of Christian values. It can be used wrongly too I know.

>>780768

>what are traveling monks

>what is the code of hospitality of St. Benedict

>what are the social services the monasteries provide to the surrounding communities

you should really research the history of monasticism before you assume they just go to the woods to leave the world permanently. the "bible thumping jack grizzly woodsman" cliche is a Protestant phenomenon

>>780869

there's more than enough precedent for monasticism, and again, monks have a social mission, they aren't just secluded away from society like asian white beards in the mountains

>>780877

more than that, the monasteries played an educational role in both Latin and eastern traditions, there's quite a bit the monasteries gave back to whatever part of the world they were in

>>780877

The first instruction of the great commission is make disciples

>>780879

First instruction? The great commission is a single instruction - to make disciples, that is, to baptize them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

But how do we convey the faith to people so that they may become disciples to begin with? After all the experience of the Kingdom of God does not begin and end at the scriptures. That is why monks, after experiencing God, write about it, therefore presenting a side of Christianity that councils and catechisms alone do not suffice to show.

And after these disciples have become disciples, what do we do with them? Do we leave them be? Or is it rather that the members of the Church are rocks supporting one another, and those with more faith and gifts help those with less faith and gifts? Because in that case monks, by giving spiritual direction, help those who need such help. And monks, by showing what it can mean to bear one's cross and follow Jesus, to forsake the world to follow Jesus, motivate those who live in the world and may forget otherwise the potential that Christianity has.

And indeed, the great commission is to make disciples. But it takes a lifetime to truly become a disciple, to truly convert, to truly become a Christian, a "little Christ". By giving sustenance to those who have been baptized, monks indeed do fulfill the great commission. By their prophetic works, elders edify the Church and help the heart of the Body of Christ to pump blood (that is, the Holy Spirit), so to speak.

But beyond these things, monks also pray for the whole world. They pray for more disciples to be made, they pray for more shepherds to come, they pray for the salvation of all.

>>780881

okay, you're identifying "baptism" as a function of "making disciples". That's fine.

I am not saying that finding retreat and fervent prayer are negative. What I am saying is that monasticism as a lifestyle is contradictory to evangelism.

Living in a monastery and still going into society can be thought of as a soft-monasticism, but in strict terms monastics completely abandon the world.

>>780880

Mount Athos is on a peninsula.

You know monks hiding in the woods is a prot meme started by those that never bothered to learn history…right?

Case in point, the Dominican Monastic Order. They singlehandedly stopped one of the early Protestant sects the cathars/albegensians by going around and praying the rosary with people. They were active members of the community that sacrificed all the world's pleasures to fully dedicate themsleves to God's mission.

>>780966

All christians are forbidden to be of the world

>>780966

I'm in some other odd category, I guess.. of a semi-monastic layman. I don't plan to be tonsured and tbh… I have issues with authority on that level… so I wouldn't be a good monastic. That's another thing people need to be sure of before trying this. It's an orderly life, and I'm a little more lazy and relaxed.. despite having similar vows. I can commit to celibacy, but monasticism and clergy is kind of like the military in some ways. There are some tough guys who can't survive basic training because they lack the discipline. It's kind of the same here.

I kind of halfway thought I'd eventually get married, but it never happened.. and I feel it's too late to worry about anymore. So I've commited to this middle path.

>>780801

>there weren't as much drugs

lmao

>and technology

People had fun with torturing other human beings instead. Look up medieval torture devices and be grateful that you live in this era of love and humanity.

>>780954

Based

>>781059

lol is this bait?

>>780781

>>780877

>>780954

OP here, lots of great answers thank you everyone, I now feel bad that I underestimated these mens' contribution to the world and Christianity as a whole.

>>780768

There weren’t monks in ante-nicene Christianity. Most Ante-Nicene fathers were anti-celibacy(citing the married apostles) so that was an obstacle right there.

The closest thing would perhaps be the Egyptian “Theraputae” in the first century, if they truly were Christian (Eusebius thinks so). Except, they lived in familial communes. And they didn’t really last.

Monasticism requires the help of a state-level Government, so it’s no surprise that it grew in early Byzantium.

>>781059

How are the demonic images of the modern world not torture?

>>781673

Compared to this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_sawing

Yeah, you tell me.

>>781838

>Most Ante-Nicene fathers were anti-celibacy

prove it. how can one be "anti-celibacy" without being anti-Christ? not even going into what St. Paul said, either.

>>780793

>The barbarians were far more degenerate than we modern people

Citations please!

There is no way those pagan barbarians have anything on transexualism, and the disgusting levels of hedonism and fornication that we are witnessing today.

Even they had standards!

Too bad we lost them today and out only standard is "satisfy muh desires nao!"

>>781838

>There weren’t monks in ante-nicene Christianity. Most Ante-Nicene fathers were anti-celibacy(citing the married apostles) so that was an obstacle right there.The closest thing would perhaps be the Egyptian “Theraputae” in the first century, if they truly were Christian (Eusebius thinks so). Except, they lived in familial communes. And they didn’t really last. Monasticism requires the help of a state-level Government, so it’s no surprise that it grew in early Byzantium.

Like the anon above me said, "prove it".

As for why they weren't monastic, you apparently haven't read much of this thread. The reason they weren't monastic is because many of them were martyrs. All monasticism was was a later period when martyrdom was more a thing of the past, and some people felt it was wrong to participate in society suddenly. They honored the ante-nicene martyrs by practicing a form of martyrdom in their own lives, as best they could.

>>780772

Many Protestants have great respect for the monastic tradition and visit monasteries all the time. It's just that they didn't have a clue about it a few decades ago and to some of them it still looks "exotic"