/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

If an Asian says the sky is blue they'll turn their heads and say "he's Asian, so I'm not going to listen to him". Why bother? They'll come down under the weight of their own conceit soon enough.

"My kingdom is not of this world."

>>748019

"They'll come down under the weight of their own conceit soon enough."

Eventual eternal damnation is hardly a solution I'm afraid, the apostles didn't just say "Eh who cares about the Romans they're going to Hell anyway." and if they did well, I'm not sure where we would be tbh.

>>748024

Simple and right, great answer.

>>748024

>>748029

Doesn't respond to what they're interested in, they need to be Christian in first place to believe in it too.

I've seen a lot of people uphold unconvincing arguments because they're true. Are we trying to win the argument, or convince the opponent? Evidence says it is the former.

>>748017

"The truth is fit for all kinds of people. I've never seen someone complain the theory of gravity is fit less for Americans and more for Europeans."

Something roughly like this should work.

This argument has troubles if the person in question doesn't believe in Religion has being true, but in that case you have a whole nother flock of problems in your hand.

>>748031

I guess I should've figured, most also tend to view religion as just an extension of one's culture.

>>748031

>Are we trying to win the argument, or convince the opponent? Evidence says it is the former.

>

I don't care about apologetics, if that's what you mean. I'm simply saying Jesus transcends their petty concerns of culture. And everyone else's as well (including Christians). Christians are their own civilization.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light." - 1 Pet 2:9

>>748017

I'm a neopagan and I think most of us are retarded.

Most neopagans are antisemitic and this is one of their main motivation for rejecting Christianity, even though Christianity is the most antisemitic thing in the world right now. Hitler wanted to end the Jewish race, but Jesus rejected their corrupt spirit, not only their bodies.

Now my perspective on this issue is that Catholicism is basically paganism being crowned by the salvific grace of God that is Jesus Christos. But I can only say this because I actually studied Christianity and paganism both.

Most neopagans are proud of not studying Christianity and they just reject it out of defiance and pride. They are literally Tigger tier for the most part who cling to some edgy sense of "love is for the weak" philosophy.

If you want to convert them you should appeal to their hatred of the Jews, it worked on me, and today, all I have for the Jews is pity, because they literally rejected God.

God is a truth found within the heart of all men… he has no nation or faith (save his faith in us). Those are tools to help you find him… as for all the different churches and interpretations? Man likes to squabble amongst himself for he is wilful.

>>748045

>I'm a neopagan

convert

I'm going to write a book on this some day, I swear it on my grave, and i'm going to call it "Silver Versus Gold". Mark my words and save this post, worry not

>>748031

>The truth is fit for all kinds of people.

That doesn't work that well in this day and age. Christianity has ceded all ground to science when it comes to metaphysical truth, and with hundreds of different sects with different views, christianity 'appears' to be one of many religions… so why pick the one that comes from jews?

>>748045

>If you want to convert them you should appeal to their hatred of the Jews, it worked on me

>I'm a neopagan

really makes you think

>>748017

I think medieval man understood the Bible to be about him, and he didn't regard the Jews as anything more than the Spawn of Satan. And it's a correct view too, because the New Covenant superseded the Old.

So whenever you read Jew in the OT, think about us, the Aryan Christians. And whenever you read Jew in the NT, think about Jews, the children of Satan, for that is what they have become by murdering the Son of God. One day when the Jew is no more, this will be understood naturally.

The line of thinking "muh ethnic religion" is very much the attitude of chosenites which kind of makes me suspect the source of "pagan subversion"

>muh desert cult

>muh chriscuck

>muh and so on

I will say this:

Most neo pagans do not believe in Gods. They are mostly atheists or nihilists larping as a reactionary stance. Their ancestors roll in their graves because they basically spit on their graves and call them Christcucks.

What came first was hatred towards Christianity that is supported by weak arguments against it. If they wanted, they could justify their positions pretty well in realms of Christianity.

Their problem is they do not seek Truth, they seek to justify their views - some of them traditional, some of them liberal. That is the issue. Since they lack faith in absolute truth they were easy to subvert.

I adress this issue by pointing out the great lineage of my ancestors who did great while being "christcucks"

I find it especially amusing when the pagan larpers dismiss Christianity as middle eastern but then proudly talk about European identity - when Europa was a middle eastern (phoenician) immigrant.

>>748272

Nah, the thing is, the concept of the West is pretty much synonimous with Christendom and the Roman Empire.

That's why pre-islamic Egypt seems familiar to us, or why everyone and their mother was larping as some trojan exile, until Anatolia got islamized, and afterwards, no one wanted to have anything to do with that place.

>>748017

I think that they're not bright people. Their basis for Christianity lies with out of context quotes from Mark/Matthew displayed in leftist infographics used to defend illegal immigration. Rather than read the Bible for themselves and use it to defend their faith (ie. Tower of Babel, Obeying the Law of the land-Romans 13), they abandon it with the hope of not being gaslight.

The OT was very critical of Jews, but it was for them abandoning the faith and his doctrine as opposed to them being Jewish.

>>748045

>If you want to convert them you should appeal to their hatred of the Jews, it worked on me, and today, all I have for the Jews is pity, because they literally rejected God.

The issue with making faith hinge on politics is that it'll shatter entirely when people switch their positions. I think it happened with pagan LARPers here.

>>748017

This is a joke right? They don’t actually care about it being foreign. I’ve seen them admit white Israelism is true on /pol/ after being presented with undeniable evidence and they still say they won’t convert to Christianity because Christianity seems “stupid” to them. But we all know the real reason. They’re degenerates who don’t want to be held to Christianity’s moral standard.

>>748017

>>748489

It's like flypaper for those who can't differentiate from the material and the spiritual.

>>748017

Religion deals with the supernatural and is therefore foreign to the entire planet.

Just my 2 cents.

>>748514

Argumentation from doctrine is likely your best bet then. Most pagans are opposed to adultery and race mixing, right? Most of their gods are adulterers and race mixers though. Zeus had a bunch of bastard children and pretty much all of the gods in the Greek pantheon cheated on their spouses. Thor from the Norse pantheon and Bres from the Irish pantheon were both half-breeds.

In essence, just point out how the old gods were themselves not traditionalists and wouldn't fit the concept of morality that's been in use for the last 2000 years or so.

>>748516

I know but like I said they don't believe in any of that, they just like them because they are white.

They don't like Christianity and Jesus because of the location it originated and the first followers.

>>748826

Then there's no hope for them. Don't throw your pearls before swine.

The existence of an objective truth necessitates a heirarchy of the understanding of truth, which necessitates that the highest understanding will be singular. This singularity so happens to come from the Levant, but is universally applicable because it is the Truth. Insisting that all or so many tribes can achieve equivalent or comparable understandings of Truth is the exact relativist signature of the spirit of this age- the neopagans are atheists meme. Because to the atheist relativist, Truth has never been a real priority. Some neopagans embrace this degradation when pressed, though, you can only turn the ones looking to honestly understand a transcendent reality with this argument. Neopagans are desperate to remain ignorant that they are a symptom of the modern world, not its solution.

Most christians are martyred for their faith (this is a fact)

Most neopagans dont even confess their "faith" in public

Yeah, as others have said already, you need to subtly shame them for basing their beliefs on something so sillly and stupid, and not the logical thing which is whether something is true or not. If they're sincere then they'll have to concede their position is proposterous and will be open to discussion/debate on the truth claims of Christianity and any other worldview or system etc and the consistency of evidence, internal logic and arguments that underpin them. Will need to remember though that it's only your job to provide them the opportunity to hear, while it is God who decides if they'll actually listen and take it on board.

And I say subtly shame them because if you're gentle and thought provoking in your approach where you plant the right seeds in the argument (in this case about the importance of resting decisions based on whether something is true or not) to ensure the penny drops in their head, and they feel that drop, they will be more inclined to be open to hearing what you've got to say, as opposed to if you go in as a rabid insulting schreeching autist.

If they're insincere and cannot be convinced of the futility or stupidity of believing something independent of whether it is true or not, and concede that they simply don't care, then leave it as they're clearly not genuinely looking to engage meaningfully in any dialogue with such an absurd position and it means you should move on.

>>748017

I usually just ask where the cutoff line is. How far back does one need to go in order to establish lineage or history? If a religion has been in an area for, let's say, 1700 years, isn't that long enough for it to be considered "native"? I use it in context with my own family. We are proven to have been in the United States since 1623. So, should I consider myself Scottish or American? If 400 years is long enough to be "American", why isn't 1700 years long enough to consider Christianity "European"?

>>751031

But then they say that paganism is older than Christianity, therefore it's more European and more "right"

>>751048

Yeah, and to that I usually say, "Shitting in a hole in the ground is older than toilets with plumbing. Which would you rather do?"

>>751048

>>751031

Why would you even consider egaging with them on this level?

>>751057

>egaging with them

*engaging

>>748209

But your so-called "Aryan Christians" are the ancestors of the NT Jews.

>>748209

>positive christianity

Get out.

Europe is not culturally pagan though. They're attempting to connect to a culture that in many parts of Europe has been dead for 1000 years. If Paganism is so "natural" to Europe then ask them why it's still practically completely dead outside of a few internet LARPers and tumblr wiccans. They have nothing in common with the old pagans of their land. Ask them how they'd actually establish a post-Christian pagan culture and what you'll probably get in response in mostly an atheist culture where someone occasionally visits a shrine or says "By Odin" instead of "Oh my God"

>>751057

It just happens

>>748017

>Often calling out Christianity as a desert cult so to say and when they read the Bible it's all about Jews, which naturally seems fishy and completely unrelated to them and their people.

I was in their camp once. It's a special kind of blindness, wasn't pleasant. Don't want to go back.

Anyways, pray for them. That's the best option immediately available, after that… I don't know Anon. It's a matter of being blind to the actual themes present in Scripture. Yes - the OT is about Jews on the surface, but the deeper you gaze, the more you realize it's just a foreshadowing of NT events and what will befall those who depart from the way, and of course prophecies that Christ fulfilled.

The underlying issue here is that they are blind to the undertones, and the significance of them.

Throw in the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" element and it's just uh, yeah, entirely baffling to them. They're blind to the underlying currents of existence, and they're so materialistic they're blind to the importance of love. What's ironic is the same people claim to be against materialism, yet they desire material things such as land and "their people" (who magically think the same as they do, and are 100% Aryan phenotype).

They're a special case. If they're willing to listen and seriously willing to convert, then tell them the good news that Christ has conquered death. But whatever the case, do pray for them. Pray for them.

>>748514

>wasn't Socrates trialed for atheist and his teachings?

Socrates was charged with impiety and corruption of youth, the impiety because he claimed o have a personal guiding spirit, or daemon, a reason to beware of Socrates.