/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I don't know much about them. Trinitarianism is a good foot forward though. Do they recognize Joseph Smith's other writings other than the book of Mormon? BoM isn't actually all that bad and most of the actual heresy in Mormonism is in the later writings.

>>740875

This is taken from their website

What do we believe?

>Jesus Christ is at the center of our faith and beliefs. These Basic Beliefs are not the last word, but an invitation to further explore your discipleship.

God

>We believe in one living God who meets us in the testimony of Israel, is revealed in Jesus Christ, and moves through all creation as the Holy Spirit. We affirm the Trinity—God who is a community of three persons. All things that exist owe their being to God: mystery beyond understanding and love beyond imagination. This God alone is worthy of our worship.

Jesus Christ

>We believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, the Word made flesh, the Savior of the world, fully human and fully divine. Through Jesus’ life and ministry, death and resurrection, God reconciles the world and breaks down the walls that divide. Christ is our peace.

>Learn more about our belief in Jesus Christ. [this links to another page expanding on their beliefs regarding Jesus]

The Holy Spirit

>We believe in the Holy Spirit, Giver of Life, holy Wisdom, true God. The Spirit moves through and sustains creation; endows the church for mission; frees the world from sin, injustice, and death; and transforms disciples. Wherever we find love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, or self-control, there the Holy Spirit is working.

Creation

>As an expression of divine love, God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, and called them "good." Everything belongs to God and should be cherished and used justly according to divine purposes. God sees creation as a whole without separation of spirit and element. God calls people of every generation to join with God as stewards in the loving care of creation.

Humanity

>Every human being is created in the image of God. In Jesus Christ, God took on the limits of human flesh and culture, and is known through them. We therefore affirm without exception the worth of every human being. We also affirm that God has blessed humankind with the gift of agency: the ability to choose whom or what we will serve within the circumstances of our lives.

Sin

>God created us to be agents of love and goodness. Yet we misuse our agency individually and collectively. We take the gifts of creation and of self and turn them against God’s purposes with tragic results. Sin is the universal condition of separation and alienation from God and one another. We are in need of divine grace that alone reconciles us with God and one another.

Salvation

>The gospel is the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ: forgiveness of sin, and healing from separation, brokenness, and the power of violence and death. This healing is for individuals, human societies, and all of creation. This new life is the loving gift of God’s grace that becomes ours through faith and repentance. Baptism is how we initially express our commitment to lifelong discipleship. As we yield our lives to Christ in baptism we enter Christian community (the body of Christ) and have the promise of salvation. We experience salvation through Jesus Christ, but affirm that God’s grace has no bounds, and God’s love is greater than we can know.

The Church

>God intends Christian faith to be lived in companionship with Jesus Christ and with other disciples in service to the world. The church of Jesus Christ is made of all those who respond to Jesus’ call. Community of Christ is part of the whole body of Christ. We are called to be a prophetic people, proclaiming the peace of Jesus Christ and creating communities where all will be welcomed and brought into renewed relationship with God, and where there will be no poor.

Revelation

>We affirm the Living God is ever self-revealing. God is revealed to the world in the testimony of Israel, and above all in Jesus Christ. By the Holy Spirit we continue to hear God speaking today. The church is called to listen together for what the Spirit is saying and then faithfully respond.

>>740911

Scripture

>Scripture is writing inspired by God’s Spirit and accepted by the church as the normative expression of its identity, message, and mission. We affirm the Bible as the foundational scripture for the church. In addition, Community of Christ uses the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants—not to replace the witness of the Bible or improve on it, but because they confirm its message that Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God. When responsibly interpreted and faithfully applied, scripture provides divine guidance and inspired insight for our discipleship.

>Learn more about how Community of Christ uses scripture. [this links to another page expanding on their beliefs regarding scripture]

Sacraments

>Sacraments are special ministries given to the church to convey the grace of Jesus Christ to his followers and all those he yearns to touch with his compassion. Sacraments are baptism, confirmation, the Lord’s Supper, marriage, blessing of children, laying on of hands for the sick, ordination to the priesthood, and the evangelist blessing. In these ministries, God sanctifies common elements of creation to bless human life and to renew and form the church to seek the peaceful kingdom of God.

>Learn more about Community of Christ sacraments. [this links to another page expanding on their beliefs regarding sacraments]

Discipleship

>Being a Christian is more than holding a list of right ideas; it is about radical obedience to Jesus in every part of life. God’s boundless love sets us free for lives of responsible stewardship in which we generously offer our lives in service to God’s reign. Discipleship is both an inward and outward journey. Jesus calls us to follow him and to invite others to experience the transforming power of his grace.

Ministry

>Ministry is humble service offered according to the model of Jesus, who calls every disciple to share in ministry for the world. Some disciples are called by God and ordained to priesthood offices to serve the mission of the church in specialized ways. The Holy Spirit gives complementary gifts and abilities to all disciples to equip the body of Christ for its witness in the world.

The Reign of God

>The Reign of God is the coming triumph of love, justice, mercy, and peace that one day will embrace all of creation. Jesus’ life and ministry were the living expression of this promise. He taught his disciples to pray for the kingdom’s full coming and sent them out into the world to be living emblems of that new creation. "Zion" expresses our commitment to herald God’s peaceable kingdom on Earth by forming Christ-centered communities in families, congregations, neighborhoods, cities, and throughout the world.

Peace

>Peace is God’s shalom: justice, righteousness, wholeness, and the well-being of the entire creation. Jesus, the Prince of Peace, came to preach the kingdom and to be our peace through the cross. The Holy Spirit empowers us for the costly pursuit of peace and justice for all people.

Resurrection and Eternal Life

>Christ is risen! Thus we believe that God is God of life, not of death. By faith we share in eternal life even now. In Christ, God’s love finally will overcome all that demeans and degrades the creation, even death itself. Easter also gives us hope that the tragic suffering and death of victims, throughout history, is not the last word. We believe the Holy Spirit will transform all creation to share in the glory of God.

Judgment

>The living God whom we serve is a God of justice and mercy. God cares about how we treat our neighbors and enemies and how we make use of creation’s gifts. It matters supremely to God how we welcome the poor, the stranger, the sick, the imprisoned, and the rejected. We affirm in scripture’s light that Jesus Christ is advocate and judge of the living and the dead.

End Time

>We press forward together in service to God, knowing that our labor is not in vain. The future of the creation belongs to the Prince of Peace, not to those who oppress, dominate, or destroy. As we anticipate that future, we devote ourselves to seek Christ’s peace and pursue it. We do not know the day or hour of Christ’s coming but know only that God is faithful. With faith in God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, we face the future in hopeful longing, and with the prayer that Jesus taught us to pray: "Thy kingdom come! Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."

>>740912

We Proclaim Jesus Christ

>Throughout history, Christians have sought to describe their faith in Jesus Christ. Traditionally, churches have used statements of belief and confessions of faith to articulate their understanding of Jesus Christ’s person and work. Such statements provide important foundations for educating disciples and for addressing theological questions that arise from time to time.

>While words are never ultimately adequate, the statement that follows describes what is at the core of our beliefs as Community of Christ. We do not expect that there will be universal assent to this statement and reject any prescriptive use of it. Yet it is our prayer that the church will find this to be a compelling summary of our faith, and that it will be helpful to the mission of the church as it proclaims Jesus Christ and promotes communities of joy, hope, love, and peace.

>1. As members of Community of Christ, we are bound together with Christians in every place and in every time by our confession of Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, author of our salvation, and head of the church.

>2. Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh, both fully human and fully divine. In him we see ourselves and we see God, whom he tenderly called Abba, the compassionate One, who gave birth to all of creation and declared it to be “very good.” Together with the Holy Spirit, they are one.

>3. By the mystery of the incarnation, Jesus, born of Mary, came into the world to live and dwell among us to reveal God’s nature and will. He prophetically condemned injustice in the temple and proclaimed the good news of the coming reign of God on earth, preaching liberation to the oppressed and repentance to oppressors. He taught his followers to love God, to love their neighbors, and to love their enemies. By eating with sinners, serving the poor, healing the unclean, blessing children, and welcoming women and men as equals among his disciples, Jesus declared that all persons are of worth in the sight of God.

>4. Jesus was betrayed by his own friends, accused of blasphemy and treason, and sentenced by Pontius Pilate to die on a cross between two common criminals. By forgiving his murderers and choosing to take on the sin, pain, and suffering of the whole world, he reconciled all of humanity to God.

>5. On the third day, God raised Jesus from the dead, vindicating his life and ministry, and triumphing over all injustice, even death itself. He ascended into heaven, having entrusted his followers with authority to minister in his name to the ends of the earth. He sent the Holy Spirit to be with them in their witness of the good news of the Resurrection.

>6. Christ is our peace, breaking down the dividing walls of hostility between us. He promises us the redemption and healing of our relationships with God, one another, and all of creation.

>7. The church, the body of Christ, is called to proclaim the gospel until Christ comes again. It is he who forgives us in baptism, and feeds us at his table. As disciples of Christ, we are all called to conform our lives to his by living in loving community with others, seeing Jesus in the faces of the least of God’s children, and serving those whom the world has forgotten. It is to Christ and to his gospel that we declare our loyalty and by which we will be judged.

>8. The promises of God in Jesus Christ are sure—that by the Holy Spirit we will be given grace to do the things we have been asked: courage in the struggle for justice, passion for peace in the midst of violence, forgiveness of our sin, stewardship in place of materialism, healing of body and spirit where there is hurt, and eternal life in the face of death.

>9. We live and serve in hope that God’s kingdom of justice and peace will indeed come, bringing healing to the whole, groaning creation. Putting our trust in the Risen Christ, present among us by the Holy Spirit, we press on together, giving blessing, honor, and glory to God, now and forevermore. Amen.

>>740916

Scripture in Community of Christ

>Scripture provides divine guidance and inspired insight for life when responsibly interpreted and faithfully applied. Scripture helps us believe in Jesus Christ. Its witness guides us to eternal life and enables us to grow spiritually, to transform our lives, and to participate actively in the life and ministry of the church.

>Affirmation One: We declare that Jesus Christ—who lived, was crucified, was raised from the dead, and comes again—is the Living Word of God. It is to Christ that scripture points. It is through Christ that we have life (John 5:39–40). It is Christ whom we must hear (Mark 9:7).

>Affirmation Two: We find the Living Word in and through scripture. Scripture is the indispensable witness of the saving, transforming message that God has entrusted to the church. The church formed the canon of scripture so that it might always have a way to hear the good news, nurture its faith, measure its life, test its experience, and remember its identity.

>Affirmation Three: Scripture is a library of books that speaks in many voices. These books were written in diverse times and places, and reflect the languages, cultures, and conditions under which they were written. God’s revelation through scripture does not come to us apart from the humanity of the writers, but in and through that humanity. In the earthen vessels of scripture we have been given the treasure of divine love and grace (2 Corinthians 4:7).

>Affirmation Four: Scripture’s authority is derived from the model of Christ, who came to be a servant (Mark 10:45). Therefore, the authority of scripture is not the authority to oppress, control, or dominate. If Jesus came to serve, how much more should the books that point to him be treated as a servant of the saving purposes of God.

>Affirmation Five: Scripture is vital and essential to the church, but not because it is inerrant (in the sense that every detail is historically or scientifically correct). Scripture makes no such claim for itself. Rather, generations of Christians have found scripture simply to be trustworthy in keeping them anchored in revelation, in promoting faith in Christ, and in nurturing the life of discipleship. For these purposes, scripture is unfailingly reliable (2 Timothy 3:16–17).

>Affirmation Six: Faith, experience, tradition, and scholarship each have something to contribute to our understanding of scripture. In wrestling to hear and respond to the witness of scripture, the church must value the light that each of these sources may offer.

>Affirmation Seven: As the church tries to interpret scripture responsibly, it seeks the help of the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised that the Spirit would guide his disciples into new truth (John 16:12–15). By the Spirit, the ancient words of scripture can become revelatory, allowing us to grasp what may not have been seen or heard before.

>Affirmation Eight: Disciples are called to grow in their knowledge and understanding of the scriptures so that they may ever increase in love for God, neighbor, and self (Matthew 22:37–40; Mosiah 1:49), uphold the dignity and worth of all persons (Doctrine and Covenants 16:3c–d), and faithfully follow the way of Jesus Christ.

>Affirmation Nine: With other Christians, we affirm the Bible as the foundational scripture for the church. In addition, Community of Christ uses the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants as scripture. We do not use these sacred writings to replace the witness of the Bible or improve upon it, but because they confirm its message that Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God (Preface of the Book of Mormon; Doctrine and Covenants 76:3g). We have heard Christ speak in all three books of scripture, and bear witness that he is “alive forever and ever” (Revelation 1:18).

>For our time we shall seek to live and interpret the witness of scripture by the Spirit, with the community, for the sake of mission, in the name of the Prince of Peace.

>>740917

Sacraments

>We encounter God through the sacraments of the church, which touch lives at important times and places. Sacraments bring God’s grace, the influence of the Holy Spirit, and the example of the life of Jesus Christ together with one’s personal commitment of faith. Through the sacraments, we discover the presence of God everywhere and realize that all life is sacred.

>These encounters point to God’s loving desire to bring all people to peace, wholeness, and right relationships with one another and the Divine, which is the meaning of salvation. The sacraments refresh, renew, and challenge us to continue on Christ’s mission, our mission, for the sake of all creation.

>Community of Christ has eight sacraments, most of which are celebrated in worship experiences at appropriate times.

Baptism

>Jesus began his work by asking to be baptized (Matthew 3:13–17). Baptism is a public act announcing you are choosing to follow Jesus Christ with all of your heart, might, mind, and strength. It is a decision that marks a significant point in recognizing God’s initiative in your life, turning toward God, and entering a covenant relationship to the community of disciples and God.

>In baptism, we are immersed in water to symbolize death to sin and raised from the water to begin a new life. Paul, an early convert to Christianity, wrote how baptism symbolizes a complete following of Jesus and a dramatic change of life: “When you were buried with him in baptism you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God” (Colossians 2:12 NRSV).

>People old enough to make their own decision may be baptized in Community of Christ. This is considered the age of 8 and older. Baptism represents a first step toward membership in Community of Christ.

Confirmation

>As Jesus comes out of the water (Matthew 3:13–17), the Holy Spirit, represented as a dove, descends on him. As followers of Jesus, we are baptized of water and the Holy Spirit. Following baptism of water, new disciples take part in the sacrament of confirmation. It “confirms” membership in Community of Christ, and affirms the Holy Spirit’s continued blessing for each disciple.

>In the sacrament of confirmation, elders place their hands on the head of the new disciple, and one elder offers a special prayer. The prayer of confirmation seeks God’s blessing to help new members grow in their covenant and generously share their giftedness in support of the church’s mission. The commitment made through baptism and confirmation is active “discipleship expressed through covenant with God and others in sacred community” (Doctrine and Covenants 164:2d). Confirmation helps weave people into the fabric of community—both congregation and worldwide church—so they can grow in discipleship.

The Lord’s Supper (Communion)

>Jesus gave his disciples a piece of bread and a drink of wine and said to them: “‘Take, this is my body’….‘This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many’” (Mark 14:22–24 NRSV). The Gospel of Luke further says, “‘Do this in remembrance of me’” (Luke 22:19 NRSV). The Communion meal is shared the first Sunday of each month in the congregation and on special occasions.

>All who believe in Christ, which usually is expressed in water baptism, whether members of Community of Christ or not, are welcome to share the Lord’s Supper. This is an opportunity to celebrate again our baptism and confirmation covenants, reconcile relationships, and mutually recommit to the church’s mission. It plays an important role in healing and strengthening the congregational community. Preparation should include reconciling with others, confessing our faults, and asking for and offering forgiveness. We cannot be reconciled with God if we are not reconciled with others (Matthew 5:23–24).

Ordination

>Jesus called people to follow him, be his disciples, and use their gifts for others (Luke 6:12–13). Some are called by God to be ordained ministers because their gifts help them serve the covenant community in specific ways.

>Ordination recognizes the divine initiative to call certain disciples to particular priesthood responsibilities and ministries for the sake of the community, the congregation, and the world. This sacrament often is performed in a worship service. Officiating ministers, usually two, lay their hands on the person’s head. One minister offers a prayer, naming a specific priesthood office to which the person is being ordained, and may include added guidance and blessing. The congregation, representing the entire church, commits to receive the ministry that will come from the newly ordained priesthood member.

>Ordination confers authority on priesthood members according to the responsibilities of their particular priesthood offices. Priesthood members act within the guidelines and setting of the church community, upholding high standards of ministerial ethics and serving with integrity and trustworthiness.

>>740920

Blessing of Children

>When Jesus was a young child, Mary and Joseph took him to the temple “to present him to the Lord” (Luke 2:21–35 NRSV). During Jesus’ adult ministry, parents brought their children to him to be blessed (Mark 10:14). When families bring their babies to be blessed by the elders, they are responding to God’s grace by choosing to raise their child in God’s loving community and promising to provide guidance and nurture throughout the child’s lifetime. The congregation also commits to being a loving community in which the child can thrive and grow as a disciple of Jesus Christ.

>Two elders administer the blessing of children, usually during a worship service in the presence of the child’s family and the congregation. The elders hold, support, or place their hands on the child, and one elder offers a prayer of blessing. Children from newborn through age 7 may be blessed. This sacrament is available to any child regardless of the family’s membership in Community of Christ.

Laying on of Hands for the Sick

>Jesus blessed those who were hurting in many ways. The disciples anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them (Mark 6:13). We find many stories of blessing the sick in the New Testament, reflecting God’s desire for wholeness and shalom for all creation.

>During times of physical, mental, or emotional distress, people may seek this sacrament from ministers. This sacrament opens a way for healing in whatever form it comes.

>Usually two elders administer this sacrament together. They visit with the person to find out more about the person’s need. One elder places a drop of consecrated oil on the forehead of the person, places hands on the person’s head, and offers a statement of purpose and blessing. The second elder then places hands on the person’s head and offers a prayer for wholeness and well-being. This may be done privately or in the presence of family, friends, and the congregation. This sacrament is available to all seeking wholeness in body, mind, and spirit.

Marriage

>Jesus Christ taught that the bond between two people who love and commit to each other in a formalized covenant is sacred (Matthew 19:4–6). He blessed marriage with his presence (John 2:1–11). Christian marriage is a sacred covenant between two people for lifelong, healthy, loving companionship. Marriage is also a legal agreement. The sacrament of marriage highlights God’s desire to strengthen and enrich the marriage.

>A Community of Christ marriage ceremony includes a statement of mutual covenant, “‘You both mutually agree to be each other’s companion…’” (Doctrine and Covenants 111:2b), and a pronouncement prayer, “‘May God add his blessings and keep you to fulfill your covenants from henceforth and forever. Amen’” (Doctrine and Covenants 111:2d). The couple’s agreement establishes a lifelong bond, a covenant to share Christ-like love with each other, with others, and with God.

>Community of Christ priests and elders may perform this sacrament, regardless of the couple’s membership in Community of Christ, as long as local laws governing marriage are followed.

Evangelist Blessing

>Jesus prayed a special prayer for his disciples to guide them in their journey (John 17, Luke 22:31–32). Today, an evangelist blessing can be requested by individuals, couples, families, households, groups, and congregations who want to feel God’s loving grace and guidance. Time is spent in preparation through prayer, spiritual practices, study, and discernment. An evangelist or team of evangelists will guide the preparation. Once adequate preparation is completed, the evangelist(s) offers a prayer.

>This sacrament expresses the universal love of God for the recipient(s) and brings assurance, clarifies choices, and provides light for a lifetime of faithful discipleship in response to God.

>>740868

>but they also believe Joseph Smith Jr. was a prophet and in the Book of Mormon.

The Book of Mormon is just a fairy tale. Where there is actual history that backs up the Bible, no archaeological evidence has ever backed up anything in the Book of Mormon. I would steer clear.

>>740911

>>740912

>>740916

>>740917

>>740920

>>740921

(this was all a lot longer than I thought it would be)

Based on this, they seem pretty solid. Obviously posters will have some objections, but they seem to have no beliefs that aren't common to most protestant denoms allowed on this board, the only belief they have that's really out there is the inclusion of the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants among their scripture. I would never convert, but I think they'd be allowed on this board. They're definitely Christian.

>>740923

That's true, I even made that point in the LDS thread yesterday. The Book of Mormon is an outright impossibility

kek their succession crisis sounds like the shi'a sunni split

>believed only a relative of Smith could succeed him

So they’re Mormon Shiites?

>>740930

>>740937

The whole Mormon movement is strikingly similar to Islam.

>>740930

>>740937

Yes and no, since the shiites are the more orthodox in this case. But, indeed, it was a funny comparison.

Not only are they Mormon lite, they’re liberals. They accept gay marrage.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/01/women-lgbt-mormons-community-of-christ

>>740945

Wow, can't believe I wasted my time going through their beliefs as if they were sincere. I should have known Satan was hiding somewhere

>>740944

Native American reservations, God gave the land to Mormons!

>>740948

The fact they said “two people” and not “a man and a woman” in the marriage section should have been a give away.

>>740868

>I know it got deleted which is good

Not convinced about this … since /christian/ pwnd them meaning it was clear what Christians think … but I suppose they did break the rules

>but they also believe Joseph Smith Jr. was a prophet and in the Book of Mormon.

#notChristian

They're adding to the Word of God expressly against God's exhortation in Revelations. The book of Mormon is not some innocuous "Ten steps to being a better Christian", it contains errant theology and history, and it – worse yet – claims to be from God via some angel.

You follow the book of mormon, you're mormon.

That said, perhaps God will be more merciful with them. Who can say. Nevertheless, I would stay away

>>740912

>>Scripture is writing inspired by God’s Spirit and accepted by the church as the normative expression of its identity, message, and mission. We affirm the Bible as the foundational scripture for the church. In addition, Community of Christ uses the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants—not to replace the witness of the Bible or improve on it, but because they confirm its message that Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God. When responsibly interpreted and faithfully applied, scripture provides divine guidance and inspired insight for our discipleship.

What's their view on sufficiency? That is key.

>>740916

>We do not expect that there will be universal assent to this statement and reject any prescriptive use of it.

This is a novelty. Christianity has firm doctrine.

Overall, reading through their statements, I would not recommend joining them, but I would consider them Christian. I want to see them name, explicitly, the persons of the Trinity. I'd view them in the same bin as Seventh Day Adventists and other Restorationists - all kinds of doctrinal issues but Christian.

>>741014

So basically Mormonism can be Christian in certain circumstances but not others? What exactly IS Mormonism then? Should we limit it only to LDS? But RLDS claim to be Mormons of a different denomination than LDS. FLDS claim the same, Strangite LDS claim the same, etc. What is Mormonism?

>>741020

You're going about it backwards - Christianity can have some tarnishing of error and still be Christianity. Seventh Day Adventists, for example, believe in the prophesy of Ellen G White (who was not a prophet) and have all kinds of beliefs about lifestyle and health but are still Christian.

Now, you have to know God to do this. It's easy to put up an idol. That's why doctrines of the Trinity and basic soteriology are so critical.

It's not that Mormonism can be Christian, it's that Christianity can survive some stain of Mormonism.

>>740948

Why would you even consider it in the first place? You know Mormonism is a cult so why bother with it's derivatives.

The giveaway is in the first line of their statement of belief

>Jesus Christ is at the center of our faith and beliefs. These Basic Beliefs are not the last word, but an invitation to further explore your discipleship.

Pay attention to

>not the last word, but an invitation to further explore your discipleship.

This SCREAMS cult - "we're Christians, look at all these Christian beliefs we hold… by the way this isn't all we believe but if you want to know more then you have to join us"

Their belief statement is designed to lure would-be Christians by deception, and once they've reeled you in they'll pump your brain full of heresy and blasphemy. Satan isn't hiding, Satan is right there in the beginning of their message