/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Stop being Romist.

>>733995

What do you mean 'Romist'? You're saying i shouldnt focus on looking up to Catholicism?

Sounds like, tbh, you were more in the church for the reading and philosophy and not really for actual love of God. Don’t worry, I still struggle with the same thing.

>>733998

Maybe Catholicism is the problem. What about Christianity do you find hard to believe? Could be it's mainly Catholic doctrines that are proving obstacles to you.

>>733999

I went to the Church because I wanted to be with the church, I would have easily gave up the debauchery if needed. It would be hard but I would have done it, I was so deep into everything

>>734000

Well It was through the saints and Augustine that led me to the church and I agree with a lot of the doctrines so that cant be the problem.

Although, I have started to think on Calvanism but I think he's retarded, but an interresting retard

>>734001

What issues are you having with Calvinism? And why do you think he's a retard?

>>734001

I also started with Augustine. I'm currently attending an Orthodox Church, though. He belongs to the pre-schism Church, though. I think Catholics have kept more to his doctrines, but it's his story that influenced me, anyway, not his doctrines.

>>734008

His doctrine is the best part

>>734009

You're a Calvinist? What do you like about his doctrines?

>>734007

Calvin's claims that a bad man will always be a bad man and not saved is predestined and vice versa is just ridiculous

>>734010

It's not about liking or not liking. I just see Calvinism as very biblical and a conclusion that one could only come to by the grace of God. If you preach it the responses you get aren't biblical but based on emotion. "Oh, it's unfair" or "God would never do that." The fact that they have preached this shows that God must have revealed it to them.

>>734007

Also Sola Fide is poop

>>734014

Gospel of John says that God is love. The God of Calvin is not love. If it was up to me Calvinists would be banned on sight from this board. I would rather even allow Mormons than Calvinists. Anyway, I have no interest in discussing those contemptible heresies. You can see that as a rejection based on emotion if you like. I don't care.

>>734013

>Calvin's claims that a bad man will always be a bad man and not saved

We can get to sola fide later but this is true. Without the grace of God there is no good that we can do. Read Romans 3:10-11

>as it is written: None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.

We are even incapable of coming to God out of our own free will

>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 6:44

And it takes the power of God to bring us to Him

>And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:26

And you can't earn it. It is umerrited.

>>734018

>banning a common and easily fixable mistake in theology and letting in Pagans with a thin pseudo-Christian coating

Yeah they’re annoying but not “lmao get your own planet and have tons of hot spirit sex with your spouse if you join our church :D”

>>734018

I love the accusation that the Calvinism makes God seem like He does not love. But we believe in the most loving God. His love unconditional in the fullest sense. He doesn't say "hmm, this person has been very good so I will bless him" or "this person has been very bad so I will damn him " rather God's decision is made by love and not by what He sees in you but in merely the fact that you are His child. There's no need to appeal to Him or try to earn His love because He already loves you. And this gives us peace.

>>734021

Calvinism is just too powerful and redpilled for the average person to accept. By the grace of God we become Calvinists.

>>734021

Mormonism is retarded, Calvinism is wicked. Anyway, I don't actually want Mormons on the board. I'm saying if I had to choose between them I would choose Mormons, because I'd rather have a retard than someone teaching something fundamentally wicked.

>>734023

Gee, I guess the apostles and all the early Christians saints, and pretty much almost everyone who ever called themselves a Christian for most of Christian history didn't have the grace of God. Just a couple of eccentric Europeans with hamfisted exegesis.

>>734025

They did have the holy Spirit, how else would they have recognised the NT canon, trinity, hypostatic union and a host of other theological truths. But I think they're wrong in this area. I've read the early church fathers interpretation of Romans 9 and I couldn't help but chuckle at their reading. Goes to show that the early church fathers might be important for learning the historical interpretation and and the development of theology but you shouldn't rely too much on them since you end up believing in weird things. Catholics have kinda got it right with adopting a lot of Augustine's beliefs.

>>734027

I pray that God reveals Himself to you and takes out your heart of stone for a heart of flesh so that you may believe.

>>734031

No one is impressed by your false show of piety, Calvinist.

>>734032

Who am I trying to impress and for what reason? God is already my friend.

>>734008

>I think Catholics have kept more to his doctrines.

That's not a good thing. Augustine is a saint, a Church Father, but even Fathers are not infallible. There are a great number of faults with Augustine's theology, which the Church condemns now as it did then. Remember that Empress Theodora is also a saint, and she was a devoted Miaphysite. Canonization does not mean someone held to infallible teachings, it means that God has forgiven them their sins and welcomed them into His kingdom.

>>734063

What part of Augustine's theology do you think is wrong?

I'm becoming Catholic, I am converting from Calvinism, I believe the Church needs to be further reformed and that is my plan.

>>734076

Why are you leaving Calvinism? I don't think you know much about Calvinism because there's no such thing as a Calvinist church. It's a transdenominational soteriology. There are Anglican Calvinists, Presbyterian Calvinists and reformed Baptist Calvinists.

But please explain why you want to leave Calvinism.

>>734082

Honestly, my faith has already grown past it, I'm in an intermissional position between Docterines.

I have studied Calvinism heavily, I've literally watched every debate my James White. I realized it's a prescription into spiritual stagnation.

I see it necessary to bend the knee to the Church as we do to Christ, it is his body after all. I believe scriptural authority is a right of decree by the Church (I do not mean Papacy), I see the truth behind the apostolic succession.

I believe in eternal reformation, I do not see how the Protestant circle is continuing to reform, I actually see the opposite, by the dependence on the Bible alone most ideas have been cut off, IE Saints, the Position of Mary being the greatest.

>>734085

>I've literally watched every debate my James White

I did not become a Calvinist because of James White. In fact I never knew James White was even a Calvinist until recently. I became a Calvinist for other reasons after wrestling with God and Him having changed my heart. Now, I'm not saying that you think I'm a Calvinist because of James White but am saying that he isn't the best. RC Sproul has a good lecture where he discusses each one of the points of TULIP. I don't know how intense your study was but there are better resources out there that. James White.

>I realized it's a prescription into spiritual stagnation

Yeah, this is a common response I get but all it shows is the lack of understanding of the Calvinist position from the opposition. First of all, this concern stems from having a lack of an incentive to do good works. Humans are very works based and desire to recievce some reward for their works. Without it, what's the point of even working hard. But this isn't the attitude we are to have. Our incentive is sanctification. Merely working for God is good enough. When we go church or pray or sing a Psalm, it's not to earn our salvation or to even stay in salvation but rather because we love God and want to please Him. This brings a attitude of sincerity where we work for the glory of God and not to earn His love. So much for the theory of spiritual stagnation, rather it produces good and sincere love from the individual.

>I see it necessary to bend the knee to the Church as we do to Christ

Yes, but defining the church is also important.

>I see the truth behind the apostolic succession.

So do I. But I see it as a spiritual succession as opposed to a carnal one that is done by the laying on of hands.

>I believe in eternal reformation,

Once you have accepted Catholicism or orthodoxy you have gotten rid of this. Once dogmas are set there is no room for reformation. Your beliefs have been set in stone and no one has the right to reject it.

>by the dependence on the Bible alone most ideas have been cut off,

Nothing wrong there. Biblically a Saint is just a Christian and Mary is barely even talked about in the Bible. Clearly she is a very important figure but not to the level that orthodox and Catholic hold her up to.

>>734090

Saint Francis of Assisi? How did he reform the church?

>>734098

>1

If you think James White isn't a great source of Calvinism then I honestly feel bad for you, I contend he is contemporary yes, but he knows his stuff.

>2

You missed my point entirely about spiritual stagnation, I do not say you cannot grow they, you can. I just see the shallowness of it's potential.

>3

Yes, I agree defining the Church is important, in this case I am talking about the Governance of Docterine and Dogma.

You can be of the 'church' outside of the Catholic Church, but thats not what I'm talking about.

>4

It is not purely Carnal, that is honestly a low blow from you, Please have this discussion in Good Faith. God demands it.

It comes down through tradition, tradition is a vehicle of the Spirit.

>5

You are completely wrong. The Church needs reformation, it has been continually reforming, how do you think Dogmas are made and changed? (Rhetorical please don't answer that)

>6

Every relationship that God has shown deserves the respect of veneration, we do the same with the people of the Old Testament, as we do with Paul and Peter.

Mary's relationship is fully unique, it must been seen as one of the Mysteries, it is part of the revelation, it is just as important as the Cross. (In the sense of Jesus's journey)

>>734102

>1

The reason why I said James White isn't the best was because a lot of his work, especially in debates, just seem like rhetoric. His exegesis if Romans 9 is superb but by my own reading and studying I've come to my own conclusions and have been able to give a even better Calvinist Interpretation of Romans 9. I can tell you if you want to hear it.

>2

The stagnation only comes from those who are not truly regenerate and aren't driven enough by God's love to do His will. This also applies to all forms of salvation, even the Catholic and Eastern orthodox view which can lead to a certain level of Pelagianism. Of course this doesn't mean that there is something wrong with the method of salvation but rather man instead.

>3

I don't consider the Catholic church to be the Church. It's a different religion at this point.

>4

By carnal I meant defined by the laying on of hands. As though you are apostolic as long as you come from this long line of bishops and priests you are suddenly apostolic. But this isn't a biblical representation but rather a man made one. The church is defined by the 1st century apostles who knew Christ.

>5

If you think the church needs to be reformed then why not join the reformed protestant sect? To what degree do you want this reformation to be?

I don't mind pictures to aid us in worship but a lot of the times Catholics and Eastern orthodox kinda blur the line between idolatry and simple veneration. It's one thing to have images but another to aske the pictures to pray for you, kiss them and burn candles towards them, which biblically is a method of worship that is given to God in revelations but is being done to humans.

We haven't really even begun to discuss the scriptural evidence for Calvinism and it's something I really would like to get into. Putting our human ideas of morality aside for a second and what we think is right and wrong to see how the Bible defines God.

>>734107

>1

Please do, I'd never halt the showing of truth.

>2

I do not agree, the simplification of "regenerate or not" isn't the answer. Regeneration is not a simple is or isn't, it's a battle. A war wages inside a man, the winner will obviously be God but what degree is up to the will of the Man.

I believe in mysticism is a core of Religious Faith, and it's almost fully denied in the Protestentant circle considered blasphemy by many.

>3

I am sorry you feel that way, God obviously does not.

Thankfully you are not God.

>4

God gave Peter the keys so he may continue the tradition if Christ, These keys are not lost.

>5

I plan to reform the Docterine of Grace of the protestants into the Catholic Church. Not fully, but mostly.

This is one of many things that needs to be done. It is impossible to list them all and I do not wish to.

No ones perfect, no one ever practices religion perfectly or they'd be Christ.

>>734115

>1

You want me to write an exegesis of Romans 9? Would take too long but James White exegesis of Romans 9 is pretty much perfect but I'll just like to add that in vs 14-18 it's important to know what Paul is talking about. Paul likes to use antitheticals to explain his point. His use of it here is very important when tackling the view that Romans 9 is simply talking about the incongruous nature of faith, which is a myopic view I might add. Here we see two sides of God's role in salvation. God says He will have mercy on whome He wills. That is to say you cannot earn your salvation but it's simply done so by the hand of God. Both Catholics and protestants believe this unless you're some Pelagian. Even Catholics believe that humans are depraved and need God to give them enough grace and depending on how they act based on the grace given determins their salvation. But then Paul goes on to say that He will harden whome He will harden. That is to say just like how God unconditionally gives grace to some so that they can come to Him He also hardens others so that they may not come to the knowledge of God and this too is unconditional. Not in the same sense that the mercying is but just that God is under no obligation to save everyone. And so God graces some by calling them while hardens others by sending lying spirit and hardening the hearts of people so that they can befome vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

This is what I have found from my own reading. And we know that those who God calls also come and cannot resist this calling because Romans 11:29 states:

<For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

This is all that I would like to add

>2

Biblically, humans are nothing more than pawns and puppets of God. To use a biblical analogy humans are the clay and God is the potter and He fashions us the way He wills. I'll refer to Philippians 2:12-13 for evidence of this.

>3

I might become Catholic. I read Aquinas' commentary on Romans and it made me wanna be Catholic. But there are a few things I'll like to learn more about before making this decision.

>4

This is a very highly debated verse and even the early church fathers aren't unified on what this means but the keys could represent allowing converts into the faith and Peter was a rock in the sense that he proclaimed what the church was founded upon. That is Christ being the Son of the living God.

>5

No need, read Aquinas' commentary on Romans and skip to Romans 9. I really liked it. It made me respect Aquinas' more than just a philosopher but also a theologian. I don't mind accepting his view on predestination but I do have one hang up.

>>734123

>1

>He will harden whome He will harden.

You're interpretation is wrong. The people Will harden their own hearts, by the very virtue of what God is. Is by the Nature of God he doesn't have to do anything. But God can and does harden hearts of whom he chooses, but this doesn't account for everybody. God doesn't have to intervene on every bodies half if he doesn't want to.

Let's say a Catholic priest starts molesting children after years of living a true Christian life. God would then intervene to damn them.

Men are born like this, men are born blind in a sinful manner to God. This is why Children are required to be Baptized, so they can see what ways of theirs would sin against God. If they weren't baptized by man they would be blind to the ways of God. God can intervene on those who are not baptized by Man, he can lead them to Him before they are a member of the church (general body of Christ, not Catholicism), there there can be Baptized.

>2

>Biblically, humans are nothing more than pawns and puppets of God

This is literally heresy, you are denying the Free Will of Man.

>To use a biblical analogy humans are the clay and God is the potter and He fashions us the way He wills

Wrong, look at the Big Bang, he sets it in motion to do it's own thing and then Intervenes in it personally to Guide it to our Life. Look at genesis please.

>3

>I might become Catholic. I read Aquinas' commentary on Romans and it made me wanna be Catholic. But there are a few things I'll like to learn more about before making this decision.

I can only suggest to you, that you seriously pray about this. I do it over 3 times a day currently, this is my deliverance.

>This is a very highly debated verse and even the early church fathers aren't unified on what this means but the keys

But the Keys follow all the same rules of the Bible, it must taken physically literally, as well metaphysical real.

If you are consistent with the Bible, everything thing should be taken literally across all the boards. Religiously, Philosophically, Physically.

These are the dimensions of Human the human Mind. Mind, Body, Soul.

>5

please elaborate, I would like to know your hang up.

God speed brother.

>>734132

>1

Not really. After vs18 we have Paul rephrase a common response he has received from the his brothers in Rome. The verse states:

<You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?”

Romans 9:19

This verse here is very telling. It shows to us that the people hearing Paul's words understood exactly what it meant. If God hardens some and graces others then how can He blame us if we so. That is to say if we have to wait on Him and He does not deal with all equally and we all have to wait for Him to work in us, if He even does, then how can we be blamed. The more I talk about Calvinism with people the more I'm convinced that this is talking about God's active hardening. How often do you hear people respond to the beliefs of Calvinism as unfair and make being religious pointless. Paul's response is really the nail in the coffin. Now, if Paul's point, as you say, was that we harden ourselves then how come he didn't respond by saying "you hardened yourself" or "God's hardening is reciprocal based off of what you have done in the first place." Rather what happened was that Paul doubled down. Now, understanding the rest of Romans 9 is to look at the analogy Paul uses. God is the potter and we are the clay. God is in control and we are acting out His will. He is the first mover and we are the result of His work. If Paul wanted to promote synergism then He did it the worst way possible.

>2

I don't believe in free will, at least not in the libertarian sense which it seems like you do. Look at acts 4:27-28

<for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

>3

When Christ said that we should take out our eyes and cut off our hands

>4

I disagree with the sacraments, especially the mass as a mean to atone for sins.

>>734139

>1

Paul may only say that because he is baptized.

God only actively hardens when Men are Baptized.

If your not Baptized, its by your own decision.

>2

Free Will, before and after the fall is the same, again look back at genesis.

Being baptized takes your soul state to back before the fall of man.

>3

Yes, he was telling us the truth, it would be better for our Souls if we did, but it us up to us if we want to cut off our areas of sin; Circumcision.

>4

Mass doesn't atone for sins in the way you understand it.

All our sin is forgiven at our Death, as long as we believe onto Christ. God could send a perfect person to hell, because it is Gods decree where we go, no matter our Works.

>>734142

>1

Doesn't make any sense

>2

Don't know what you're talking about. I've read genesis, all of it, I think you're seeing stuff. Genesis doesn't say that God put things into motion then sat back to see how things would play out and being active during times when He feels like it.

>3

He was being hyperbolic. Like when He says hate your parents and family. It doesn't literally mean that but rather love God more in comparison.

>4

Confession takes away mortal sins and mass is considered to be a propitiatory sacrifice that makes present again the sacrifice of the cross.

>>734144

>2

< And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”

7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.

>3

Hyperbolic is just one interpretation my friend. You need to examine all of them.

>4

It's there to strengthen faith and to forgive you of accumulated sin of your life. It does not remove the final judgement of Sin.

>>734148

>2

What do you think that verse means?

>3

Nope, it's a sin to cut your own skin let alone get rid of an entire limb

>4

Not confession. That actually takes away mortal sin. And mass is the biggest issue.

>>734149

>1

Genesis 1:6, shows that God 'Set' The Universe into Motion Via the Big bang.

>3

Paul does not say Circumcision is bad, he merely says it is not needed.

>4

Sorry I'm dyslexic, Mass is the Eucharist and it's functions.

Watching this video may be of some help to you. Maybe you should join the discord instead of posting here, though. There is an invite in the meta post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXfYjTqfo9o&ab_channel=AscensionPresents

What a mess

>>734152

>1

No, I think you're reading that in. Even in the very you quoted it talks about God actively causing the waters to split. And you can't use this verse to somehow make all the verses in the Bible about God decreeing things and predestining things void. It's the first rule of hermeneutics where you start off with a clear verse and read the unclear verse in light of the clear one. This is a single verse, which isn't even talking about free will but rather God creating the world. You're gonna need a better verse than this to prove what you're saying as well as deal with the bulk of the Calvinist arguments.

>2

Wasn't talking about circumcisions. It is a sin according to proverbs 11:17

<A man who is kind benefits himself, but a cruel man hurts himself.

Also, your interpretation isn't even historical Catholicism since even the Catholic church teaches against self mutilation. The most you can do is self flagellation. Also, if you're gonna say that everything in the Bible is supposed to be taken literally then what do you do with Jeremiah 19:5

<and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind

>>734165

The New Testament and Old Testament follow different laws of understanding.

I am explaining my own view of things.

>>734168

Nope.

Church Fathers can interpret things wrongly.

No comment on if they interpreted Romans 9 the wrong way. That's up to the Church.

You're welcome friend, easily happens whenever one has an internet hiccup. ;>

>>734000

So what's the answer? Protestantism? Lol. Orthodoxs? The guys that splitted over politics? Top kek.

>>733992

Read the history of the Church lad and read also other church fathers and Aquinas.

One thing more OP. Christianity isn't about what I feel or if I feel good about it.

Its about the truth. Just because you're not getting that honeymoon feels it is you that are wrong not the church.

Also Satan always uses feelings to draw people away from God.

To faggots like the charismatics or pentecostals he uses their fellings of happiness to make them stay in their heresy.

To devout people he tries to make them feel sad and other shit hoping they will turn away from God.

Go to confession ASAP talk with your priest and start going to church fast.

>>734168

What? We can objectively prove that some of the beliefs of the early church was outright wrong. I can give you examples where some of their interpretation of the Bible so bad that one could question if they were even reading from the same Bible. And to talk about earliest Christianity, bear in mind that most of the 2nd century church fathers, Clement of Rome to Tertullian or origen, did not have the same beliefs and the Roman church. By your standards they're Christians and youre not.

>>733992

You're a reprobate because you masturbate and watch porn. Faith is a gift of justification from God. When you sin you lose justification and the faith. Stop being an effeminate masturbator and go to an sspx, fssp, or icrss parish

>>734188

>Read the history of the Church lad and read also other church fathers and Aquinas.

Why the history, I already know it quite well, same with Aquinas. People in this thread seem to think that the problemis catholicism but I love catholicism ,I dont want to leave it

>>734230

>Mortal sin, any attachment to sin in general, is an offense to God

I dont believe in "GOD" persay but I do believe there may be "Him" , does that make sense?

>>734238

I hate porn, I like nutting on girls and getting close to knocking up teenagers and college girls at parties. There's no way that I'm stopping that right now which is why I question myself as to why Im still drawn to the Church

>>734295

Aye, your lustful inclinations take pleasure in defiling girls that you have no bodily rights over. You will never enter the church until you give up this effeminate practice and accept it as a vapid empty existence and embrace masculine chastity. The spirit of fornication eventually leads to sodomy so beware of Asmodeus who waits for you to make you his sodomite

>>734295

>I like nutting on girls and getting close to knocking up teenagers and college girls at parties

And you wonder why you feel less drawn to faith?

Satan has taken over your mind.

Discipline your body. Don't you know it is a temple of the Holy Spirit?

Then don't winnie the pooh it up.

Win over your urges.

A man who lives a life dictated by his passions is a slave.

Only the truth can set your free.

Stop going to those parties and having sex right now anon.

>>734192

Disgusting.

>>733992

I don't know, sounds like you jumped in courageously, but as is typical with youth, didn't weigh up the costs. There's a parable about this; and you appear to be the king that went to war only to discover that you needed reinforcements you didn't have. (Luke 14:31)

It's a lifelong commitment. I chose it at a crisis point in my study of philosophy and my life where I decided to have faith, but not to "believe," I recognize that I could be wrong and the atheists could be right. At bottom, the only thing I truly believe is that the kind of life that Christ demands of us is the best kind of life and that I would rather suffer with nobility than be engulfed by sloth. I have faith that this will bring me an eternal reward, but ultimately I am a Christian not because of this reward, it's because of what I want to be.

You seem fascinated with Christianity and I encourage it, but it hasn't seized you.

>>734301

>The spirit of fornication eventually leads to sodomy so beware of Asmodeus who waits for you to make you his sodomite

Im not gay wtf

>>734342

No problem; I know why you don't care for heaven, hell or God. You're too old to have the simple faith of a child, yet not old enough for the reality of death and time to really hit.

As I said in >>734318 I'm not worried about your situation

>>734347

Indeed, he should, there's no reason to go inventing stuff. And no you don't line up with the church well. It is not easy, I have to warn you that when you return, if you return (which I think is likely), you will be deeply pained by what you are doing with your life at the present. It will be hard, and there will be suffering. These and other pains and crosses are things you will later treasure more than your current hedonism. But you do not have this faith at the moment.

>>734338

Gays aren't born gay. They become gays.

Once one goes down the ladder of fornication the probabilities of becoming a faggot, or putting it in another way, trying new stuff, increases exponentially.

Not everyone becomes one, but the chances are way higher.

>the priest would just shut me down anyway.

No he wouldn't wtf he desires your convertion. If you are willing to chance its his duty to help you.

>>734342

>>734347

Oh, and another thing from >>733992

>If I were to be confirmed id be in confession ever hour, I love to winnie the pooh and swear and drink and do everything that's wrong.

Hmmm, let's try to simplify things:

>If I were to be confirmed id be in confession ever hour, I love to winnie the pooh and swear and drink and do everything that's wrong.

<So I quit because I like hedonism more

>>734353

I'd say some actually are born "gay" (homosexual tendecies), as all Man is born in a sinful nature.

>>734360

I didn't quit i just slowly stopped appearing, its not like I thought "hey i want to leave" I didnt jump straight into the den of thieves after i left. Get grip dude

>>734354

Huh? What're you even trying to say

>>734353

lol dude im not frickin gay

>>734352

> yet not old enough for the reality of death and time to really hit.

I know death, I know how short of a time we have but it just doesnt scare me. Its like im desensitized. Nobody here seems to understand that, especially Christians, particularly Protestants.

>there's no reason to go inventing stuff

But why ? Luther, Calvin and Smyth did. I wouldnt go against the Church itself, I support it wholly.

Your words hit me throughouly and I'm thankful

that you seem to understand my troubles well enough. I thought about going back to the parish today, just to neal and think for a bit but I didnt and now the urge has gone.

Have you gone through a similar story to mine?

>>734363

>lol dude im not frickin gay

For now. Everyone has heard stories of mass fornicators that one day went to the other side.

Stop being a fornicator. It's an almost unstoppable ride from there on.

>>734369

And when I say that im not scared of death that doesnt mean I dont cherish life and the beauty of the world.

Really, It just means that I dont see the meaning for all this fear and urgency that surrounds the panic of hell/heaven/god etc, but i do understand why others have this inbeded fear, but i just dont, at least not in that same way. I'm too fearless and erratic . Maybe its because im super young, i really dont know and i cant be botherd to dwell on it so much for the reasons stated above

>>734369

When you get urges like that, to act Holy God is prodding you. Open your eyes

>>734374

I don't expect that you fear death, in fact you wish for it. At least I did.

That was the most painful thing about becoming Christian; first I thought of death and said it was no big deal, because I was content with dying one day, then as I struggled with faith I decided that rather than shun otherworldly hope that it wasn't flawed or intellectually dishonest to have hope, and then lastly I wished for death again because I had sinned so much.

This is why I don't think you've experienced enough – maybe it's a misnomer to say you haven't got a grip on death, but I had the impression personally that on some level I only thought I was prepared for death. In fact I was terribly under-prepared because I assumed the outcome would be the finality of non-existence. Merely coming to terms intellectually and emotionally with the possibility that death may not be final and certain is pretty winnie the pooh miserable. Eternal life might seem nice and happy, but the cost is Judgement, and that's not going to be so nice.

>>734369

I feel as though I went through a similar story with less sex. Also you're not desensitized to death, you're just afraid that you won't. If you knew for a fact right now that you will awake from death to be judged and then live forever, you'd have a literal breakdown. Hell, I probably would too. It's a good thing neither of us won't ever know for sure and will have to rely on faith; there's only so much a person can take.

>>734378

>When you get urges like that, to act Holy God is prodding you

Not every time I feel like going to church is a god prodding me, come on

>Eternal life might seem nice and happy

>awake from death to be judged and then live forever,

This here, I dont particularly care for an eternal life and stuff. It just sounds like a treat for being good the way people write and talk about it, like that cant be right, people should be good because being good is an hounrable thing, being good to others and yourself is love and love is wonderful.

Beyond that, It just isnt something that sounds interresting, it sounds ridiculous and "otherworldly", i hate it. To me, we have only one world and we should make it the best place we can for the people we love and share it with, winnie the pooh this heaven and hell shit its so winnie the pooh stupid and gets in the way of what really matters. It reminds me of how Jehovah Witnesses use heaven and eternal life as some draw to their apocalypse religion .

>>734397

> is a god

There is only One God, and Yes everytime you feel those urges God is trying to help you.

>>734410

There are many things I would die for. I would die for my country, I would die for someone who I love in the blink of an eye. I would also kill for what I love and chase what I love and etcetera

>>734411

That's neither the first, nor the last time I've been called annoying. Ah well, but I've been paying close attention to your words, they're interesting. Really what you should get is that I'm completely curious to understand you. It sure as hell didn't occur to me in my teenage years to go visit a Catholic church in secret, in fact I was an anti-Catholic. It's good I got over that bit of edge in the long run though.

>>734413

You're very sure of yourself. When my life went to basic shit earlier this year I was utterly powerless to fix it, no amount of chasing or dying or killing could change the circumstances. So you see this is why I think you're too young; you're still going through that phase of teenage omnipotence.

But overall you don't seem to be Christian and that's fine. Sure come and view us at our zoo if you're curious, but you just haven't made a leap of faith, it's as simple as that.

>>734425

It's alright, I hope I didnt insult you or anything.

>haven't made a leap of faith

I dont think I will for a very long time

>>734399

I didnt mean to imply there were more than one, i used to to reference "a spirit", "a lord", "a god"

>>734503

But you won't really try to change even a tiny bit right now? What you happen if you died right now? It would be better for you not to exist than going down there.

Even if you don't care about dying and going to hell at least think that everytime you sin you hurt the Lord.

Remember when Jesus was in so much pain that he sweated blood? It was because he felt the weight of every sin in the world upon him. Every time you sim is another drop of blood Jesus sweats. It's anlther sin more he needs to die for.

Even when I didn't realise the true nature of hell's suffering I still didn't sin not to hurt the Lord Jesus. I was giving a shit if I went to hell, but I wanted to cause the least amount of suffering to the Lord, to go to hell, but at least with a peaceful conscience that I did my best.

>>734503

I'm not overly bugged by being called annoying, arguably Christ was the most annoying since he called people out for their sin. Most Christian people are so annoying to secular people because spiritual understanding can come off as taking a conversational tone reminiscent of a parent. This is only natural, technically He is our Father in heaven, so His wisdom kinda feels like the kind of wisdom that you left or will leave your parents home so that you'll never have to deal with it again. This is why I say teenage-hood is incompatible with it.

Also I misread your musings on love because I was tired, sorry for that, but love is in my experience, miserable. There's a reason the virgin is depicted with her heart being stabbed and mutilated in ways I can't even keep track of. It's not just saccharine kitsch Catholic lawn-art. Life really blows, and even more so for the saints; I say this not so you never try, in fact you must, but just to forewarn.

If I were you I'd avoid sex for mere pleasure though, doing so will just make life harder later.

>>734338

You will eventually become a sodomite if you continue down your path. This is theological doctrine and you intuitively know it to be true. Beelzebub who is the demon of fornication hands over his possessees (you) to Amodeus who is the demon of sodomy and then they hand you over to baphomet who is the demon of child sacrifice

>>734342

You don't want heaven because your will is corrupted against God. You don't fear hell because you don't fear God which is the beginning of wisdom. You're not worried about hell because your will is ordered towards it. And then when your will is fixed after death you will hate God and dive into hell.

I know because I used to be the same. I recommend watching Fr Ripperger's 4 last things videos to understand death judgment heaven and hell.

>>734547

>>734550

>t. Puritian straight outta 1600

>>734582

How curious you sycophantly look up to the fornicator and say heresies like its fine not to be a christian, look at us in the zoo lel

And when someone chastises the fornicator with orthodox catholic theology you immediately call him a puritan heretic stuck in the 1600s. You obviously idolise fornicators over God.

Virtue signallers are the worst. Always self obsessed too.

>>734591

For God's sake what's wrong with you?

We are entreated by God to treat others with respect, regardless of their religion, not tell them they'll be gaped in hell by Asmodeus unless they convert. Pascal had it right; if you want to convince someone, see your way to exploring common ground rather than have a shrill noise making competition.

Nor am I spouting heresies. Read 1 Peter 3:15, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 and lastly Romans 2:1 and if you've ever committed any of the sodomy you condemn so forcefully, I advise you to read Matthew 7:1.

You are in a state of grave sin, you're full of pride and contempt.

>>734591

In fact, you imagine that you are better, but your pride puts you in a worse position than OP, who merely indulges lust. The prostitutes will go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do (Matthew 21:31).

Meanwhile, you won't even have to worry about Asmodeus, you'll be in the deep icy hole of Tartarus with Lucifer himself.

>>734547

>>734550

winnie the pooh off

>>734614

>>734615

>For God's sake what's wrong with you?

You shall not take the Lords name in vain.

I am treating him with respect otherwise I would not be warning him. Don't mistake treating people with respect with wanting to bbe respected by people especially fornicators, which you desire. You realise admonishing sinners is a spiritual work of mercy right? Being a friend of the world is to be an enemy of God.

I never said he was going to be gaped in hell by asmodeus, you shall not bear false witness.

You friends of the world and lovers of human respect are so quick and easy to presume God's mercy for unrepentant sinners and to excuse them but hypocritically condemn and judge those who warn and admonish those sinners. To you the only sin is to practice the catholic faith. How ironic that you accuse me of pride right as you usurp the authority of God and the priests to declare I am in a state of grave sin for not congratulating and being chummy to a fornicator.

Out of curiosity are you a masturbator and watcher of porn: an actual symptom of pride to the point of reprobation as st Paul teaches?

>>734620

You came as a narcissistic attention seeker attempting to boast of many vain things especially sexial perversions. That's typical sodomite behaviour. You are touchy about being warned you're on the path to becoming a sodomite. You're insecure because by intuition you knows its true and lash out in fear because you are too effeminate to give up your perversions. It hurts your self image because you think so highly of yourself yet like the picture of Dorian gray you know your soul is a corrupt lowly shameful distortion of God's image

>>734664

You are very sick. You may be right, but you speak as though you haven't sinned. You lie about your righteousness; when the adulterous woman was brought before Jesus he asked for one without sin to cast the first stone. Indeed He could have cast that stone, but what gives you the right?

Christ said "neither do I condemn you" and "go and sin no more." I have followed this to the last, you just condemn yourself.

>>734812

I have not exalted myself or said I am righteous at all and I have not lied, so your slander against me is unfounded.

You think admonishing sinners is to judge and condemn? I suggest you read your Roman or Pius x catechism to learn what a spiritual work of mercy is. Only God has the right to judge and condemn and those to whom he has delegated that responsibility (clergy).

You are only following this teaching of Christ from the point of view that YOU are Christ which is absurd. You have no authority to bind or loose justice, so you are not authorised to loose the justice due to this unrepentant sinner or to bind any justice to me as you have tried to do by condemning me. You are a hypocrite of the lowest order. I may seem sick to you only because your intellect is so corrupted by your will that you perceive truth as sickness.

Any masturbator or pornographer would do well to take the beam of pride out of his own eye before accusing others of being proud. St Paul teaches us that masturbators and impure will neither inherit heaven but also God has given them up as reprobates because of their pride. Masturbation and sexual impurity is caused directly and indirectly by pride to the point of reprobation.

>>734915

Anon is larping as Christ pretending he is the one saying "neither do I condemn you" "go and sin no more". That is how he interprets this passage, that he is acting in person of Christ. Next he'll be saying that he also ascended into heaven.

>>734926

No, I'm saying that if Jesus couldn't condemn the adulterous woman, the most either of us are allowed to do is say as he said "sin no more."

>>734959

Jesus could condemn her rightfully by justice, but he did not because mary magdalene was contrite he loosed the bonds of justice which is mercy. Mercy ends with death and after death there is only justice and judgement. God has delegated to temporal powers and the clergy to condemn people to temporal punishment (execution etc) and divine punishment (excommunication etc), but admonishing sinners is not condemnation. Telling someone to stop sinning and warning of the dangers is not the same as picking up and rock and stoning someone in execution. So don't accuse me of condemning, for that is false witness. You however have declared with some kind of mystical clairvoyance that I am in a state of grave sin, which IS condemnation. You are a hypocrite and have condemned me to eternal spiritual death for admonishing a sinner. You have usurped the authority of priests and God by doing so.

>>735515

No, you haven't admonished, you shitposted, and it was tasteless. If you were to say such things as you have here in public you would bring shame on all Christendom. You have no respect for secular people but we are called to have respect for everyone, even our enemies.

See 1 Peter 3:15, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 and Romans 2:1

Good luck, but you are no kind of Christian I'd want to associate myself with, a narrow-minded braggart who grandstands and calls it admonition.

And stop your pilpul, you pharisee. You should admit your shortcomings without me having to find precise words for them. You didn't condemn, maybe so, but you certainly grandstand, and give yourself over to pride. I don't care what you call it.

>>735534

You preach a fake gospel of tolerance and "respect" for everything as long as it isn't orthodox catholicism. You probably would have condemned Jesus as a "shitposter" bigot for calling out the pharisees as hypocrites and immoral.

I do admonish sinners the same way in real life, and it works because fornicators and masturbators are only used to being praised by lovers of human respect like you and when someone actually tells them the horror of what they are doing they are forced to self reflect. You are the kind of person who will not chastise a murderer but instead try to be his friend and call those chastising him bigots and condemn them to hell.

I use my language precisely, it is not pilpil, I am just exercising prudence, it's your fault if you are offended by that. I suggest you cultivate custody of the lips for the amount of times you have blasphemed God, lied and spoken rashly.

Again you accuse my of pride, when the only person who has demonstrated pride here is you as you have several times condemned me to hell as if you are God yourself. Woe to the hypocrites as Jesus said, you are the one acting like a pharisee not me.

Also if you want to not be so proud you must stop masturbating and watching porn

>>735545

>I do admonish sinners the same way in real life, and it works because fornicators and masturbators are only used to being praised by lovers of human respect like you and when someone actually tells them the horror of what they are doing they are forced to self reflect.

It doesn't, people are merely disgusted by the filth that exits your mouth, and unless they are some deluded JW like yourself, they stay clear of your malign influence.

Frankly if I were the OP and you were the only response, I would never consider Christianity again. I would think that Christ was a wrathful bigot who taught wrathful bigotry if you were all I had to go by.

>>735545

And henceforward you can rail on and please yourself in this thread because you won't get another response. OP has long since lost interest and I've said my piece.

>>735554

>OP has long since lost interest and I've said my piece.

Check >>734915 's ID.

>>735553

I'm not lying, I have in multiple cases admonished fornicators and masturbators in both real life and online and they have changed their ways to reduce or stop. How many sinners have you converted by being tolerant of them? Are you even converted yourself? I think this is too hard a thing to hear for you because you are addicted to masturbatiom and porn and you value them above God so you wish to conform God to your image, hence why you keep condemning me as if you are God. I'm not a JW, so again you label me a heretic. You must understand that the God man Christ is not the tolerant buddy Christ you portray him to be. God is not a respecter of persons. God does not tolerate fornicators, masturbators, pornographers or the lustful and he will drive them into the fiery lake unless they do penance. This is fact, straight from the sacred scriptures as St Paul and Christ teaches us "depart from me ye workers of iniquity into the fiery lake where there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth" "I did not know you". You need to know the true God lest at the moment of your death you reject him as a wrathful bigot because he does not conform to your modernist view of him and you dive into the fiery lake to escape him. First you must stop masturbating and watching porn. You will never be justified until you do that and neither inherit the kingdom of heaven.