/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>730733

They didn't take too kindly to s*d*mites 500 years ago

>>730733

Ignore everything post vatican 2

the papas have the keys, so they can change, loosen and tighten doctrines and make steady progress! exciting times

>>730741

Honest question: How does a Catholic actually wrap their head around that? Aren't you supposed to follow councils/magisteriums/popes?

>>730746

Who do you think pushed through V2?

>>730747

I honestly don't know. I'm an outsider. Just curious how traditional Catholics struggle with it :)

>>730741

>>730746

V2's greatest failing was its vagueness and lack of being definitive of anything. It is not that it was heretical, but rather that it made no effort of forbidding heretical interpretation of what it said, that it made too easy for you to read its documents and say "well, the Church is modern now."

Not that you should - because hermeneutics of continuity is a thing and so you should read and interpret V2 in a way that doesn't contradict doctrine - but you could and people do.

The Council is better understood as a huge marketing ploy of the Church to the "modern man" in a world that was rapidly losing faith. But it gravely misunderstood how to reach him and probably made the problem even worse.

>>730733

Literally nothing is the same as it was 500 years ago. Why would you care anyway? You didn't live 500 years ago, you know nothing about 500 years ago, and you can't bring back 500 years ago.

>>730818

Alright, tell you what. You live like they did 500 years ago. Get rid of your computer, your toilet, and shut off your electricity. Also, I better not catch you shopping at a grocery store or taking any form of medicine. If you're nostalgic for 500 years ago, prove it.

>>730828

since when are material things even relevant? this whole board is about abstract issues like theology and ethics. abstraction is applicable to any era.

>>730828

This is a great red herring argument that absolutely destroys anyone who wants a persistent religion that is resilient to modernist subversion.

>>730799

>>730828

>Literally nothing is the same as it was 500 years ago

God is the same. Truth is the same. The path to salvation is the same.

It really is a puzzle to me whether you're trolling or just this much of a moron. You don't have to proclaim your love of homosex to purchase toilet paper, if you do you should probably shop elsewhere.

>>730873

>God is the same. Truth is the same. The path to salvation is the same.

500 years ago there was no KJV, so a lot of people here would disagree with you.

>>730875

lol, point taken

>>730875

Just shows how silly KJVOnlyism is.

By the way, progress was slower in the Middle Ages, but there was still technological progress. It was just slower because everyone was focused on saving their souls.

More or less, yes. More dogmas have become "official" but they've always been believed. The main differences is these days communion is recieved frequently, and certain obligations (fasting, divine office, etc) are considerably easier.

Obviously not. Here's the most recent example:

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2018-08/pope-francis-cdf-ccc-death-penalty-revision-ladaria.html

It's not identical, because simply having a pope means leadership will be different from one to another. Pope Francis is simply replacing Catholicism with globalism, the same way it replaced entertainment and news. Globalism is grey goo; it cares about absolutely nothing besides self-replication.

>>731002

>The death penalty is inadmissible.

<Following the bible is inadmissible.

>>731031

The whole world has basically been trying to replicate the universal (global/catholic) aspect of the Church.. except in a bizarro, Satanic sense.

But it's sad to see church leaders themselves not be able to tell the difference.

>>730903

>technological progress

>good

No. Tech is only good as long as it is betowed upon the worthy and morally righteous. Now that wicked men are allowed to have it, it's really more of an evil thing.

Reminder to ignore animeposters

>>730828

>Most people didn't buy their food from a market 500 years ago

Your moronic non-argument is even wrong in it's irrelevant premises, idiot.

>>731183

Well you're partially right in that wicked people will use technology wickedly, but you're wrong in that righteous men will necessary advance righteousness with technology. Some technology inherently promotes and advances vice. I struggle to imagine how something like VR will be in the long run a net gain in virtuousness (and I mean a direct cause of the net gain, not in a "degeneracy must become so intense that people reject it!" way).

>>730903

People in the Middle Ages weren't concerned with incremental evolutionary development in the material realm. They were concerned with devotion to eternal truths, attainment of virtue, preservation of decency.

What moderns call Medieval stagnation is stability, and what is called social progress is an incessant centrifugal force tearing society apart.

>>730746

Ignore him. He must be one of those sedevacante heretics that fell for the dudes that pushed the spirit of the Vatican 2 bullshit, which was already condemned but nobody seems to care sadly.

The dogmas of the church in 2018 are the same as they were in 1518 and the same as they were in 33AD.

Hebrews 13:7-8

>Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, Jesus Christ, yesterday, and today: and the same for ever.

>>730762

Excellent my man. Taking shit out of the context. Why didn't you take out the sentence that says that those who reject the church go to hell? Hmm I (((wonder why)))

If the devil quotes scripture the devil can also quote conciliar documents.

Get your heretical shit out of here.

>>731234

As if the context can save these documents. It's already heresy to say that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians.

>>731257

In that part the document is talking about the possibility of salvation outside visible membership of the church through invencible ignorance, as Pius IX as said before.

They say there's the possibility that some Muslims might be saved.

It is retarded to assume that every Muslim knows they worship the devil. There are Muslims who really think they worship God, for example those who are ignorant of most of Islam teachings (basically Muslims with no education and live closed from the outside world). In that regard they belive in God as the philosophers of old.

The Jews in the time of Jesus also said they worshipped God, but Jesus told the pharisees they worshipped the Devil.

Does this means the pharisees didn't worship God? Well Nicodemos was a pharisee and he worshipped God before his convertion. Even some roman soldiers and we seen in Acts.

But those people only have a foggy idea of God instead of the true Catholic picture of Him.

So salvation is possible (although very unlikely irl) for those who really aren't aware there's a Catholic Church, in their time of death it is believed God reveals Himself to them and they become invisible members of the church.

But those who choose to ignore or even reject the Church, no matter how good persons they are, no matter how many works of charity they do, they go straight to hell.

>>730733

Partially.

The dogmas are the same (there's a couple more about Mary), but many modernist priests simply ignore or manipulate doctrine through ambiguity.

The post-Vatican II Church is building a different heterodox Church, however both truth and modernism still coexist into the same institutional Church.

>>732648

>Catholic reading comprehension